For Andrew Everard - AVR350 + B&W Speakers - what have I just bought ! ?

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Hello all, brand new to this site and needing guidance. I've been happily listening to my current system (Technics) for last 15 years and had a yearning for something better. 15 years ago i used to read all the Hi Fi mags, had an idea what was good and what not, and bought what i could afford at the time. So today I passed a "proper" hi fi shop and blew £2000 on impulse - gulp. I've done no research and no pricing etc. So can someone please tell me if I did the right thing. OK, what did i buy ? Well, I knew from previous knowledge that Arcam was a pretty well respected name. The alternative being pushed (Onkyo ?????) was a name I'd not come across. The AVR350 got my vote. The speakers being pushed were B&W's. I asked if they were a good match to the receiver - and the answer was a resounding "yes". Got one pair of 685's front, one pair 686's rear, HTM62 centre. Decided not to buy the B&W subwoofer. Try it without first - if i think its missing base I'll add it (i suspect i wont be needing it - comments please ?). They threw in 14m of QED Silver Micro Speaker Cable. 12m of QED Silver Anniversary Speaker Cable (sufficient for my room), Sennheiser HD465 headphones and a 1m optichord "TOSLINK INTERCONNECT" (optial audio cable i think !) Room Size : 4m x 3.5m Sources : TV - LG50PC56 50" Plasma - no need to comment on pic - I love it. PC - I play the majority of music from my pc PS3 - Games, Blu-Ray and up-scaled DVDs CD - i either play from pc or the PS3 TV - SKY and Virgin boxes (buy not currently subscribing to HD channels) What I listen to : Music - all types from Motorhead to Mozart (seriously) and all volume ranges Movies - all types Games - Gran Turismo and Resistance Fall of Man Questions 1. Is the AVR350 a good buy for me ? I didnt buy a CD player because to be honest i spend a lot of time at my pc and find it easier to play from there. I know there's a matching Arcam CD player. Would it be SO much better than my PC or PS3 that i simply MUST get it to get the most out of the Receiver ? 2. Are the speakers a good match or could i have done better for the price ? (no "increasing a few extra hundred pounds would get you this or that ;o) £2000 was my limit). The 5 speakers were £920. 3. I paid £2000 all in. Did i do ok ? (dont spend too much time on this - unless you have some to hand !) I think I've done "ok". Reviews of the AVR350 are generally "pretty darn good !". I'm not sure about the speakers. Are they the right make ? If the right make, are they the right size ? The kit is being delivered on Friday. I could change the speakers if someone persuades me that for the same £920 I could do better. Thanks in advance. Peter )

 

[Anonymous]

As far as I can see the Arcam does not decode HD audio, only switches 2 HDMI's and possibly of more importance does not convert /upscale video and output it via hdmi. It may be the better sounding amp for music but it's very light on features for the price.

It does not seem to be able to accept HD audio from PS3 via HDMI, it only has analogue ins but as the PS3 does not have analogue outs you're stuck.

I would swap the amp for a Denon 3808 or maybe a Marantz SR7002, much much more flexibility for your money. Or an Onkyo if you must!

R

 

[Anonymous]

relax you have not done one thing wrong arcam kit is short on features lacks audio decoding of new hd audio that is not too bad you have bought the most musical av amp that sensible money can buy in my opinion an amp that sounds better with music always sounds better playng home cinema than any av amp your arcam has 7.1 inputs in time get a blu ray player that decodes the hi def audio on board and passes it out through analoge cables something like the panasonic bd 50 coming soon. your speakers are what im sniffing after get them connected with some decent speaker cable and get some decent hdmi cables i have always used chord they are so natural sounding and their hdmi is awsome if possible bi wire the fronts, if and when you get the bd 50 then you will see what bluray has to offer i have used the ps3 to watch blurays i was impressed with the whole package for the price but i would not buy one on pic performance when you see a stand alone player on your set up you will know what i mean after my advice if your still not happy il give you 1,500 for the lot lol.

 

[Anonymous]

Hello and thanks for your input Hi Fi Nut. I had the limitations explained to me in the shop (though i was getting a bit lost - lol) - the sales guy was totally up front when i explained about my useage. He started off trying so sell me the Onkyo - and it was MY preference to go for music quality above "movie watching" qualities.

I've never owned a "quality" sound system ........ but have heard some and want to move into this bracket. Love music - listen endlessly and my bias in this direction was deliberate.

So am i right, what your saying is that playing music from PC or CD (if i buy one) I will get full useage out of the AVR350. But when I'm watching a blu-ray movie on PS3 I wont be ? Will i get ANYTHING from the PS3 through the AVR ? Or are you saying i simply CANT connect the PS3 to it ?

Why did the guy throw in the optical cable ? I thought that was for connecting the PS3 to the AVR ! Or are you saying it will - but it wont be HD decoded ......... just "normal" 5.1 surround sound ? That would be acceptable to me.

Cheers
Peter

 

[Anonymous]

Sjj, £2500 and its yours (once delivered - lol) ;o)

Actually, it struck me the guys in the shop knew what they were talking about (which pleases me as good service always does). And you 2 guys have told me EXACTLY what they did. Musically the Arcam is top - but with no HDMI sound decoding.

My room being average size, do you think i need the sub-woofer ? I read a couple of reviews on the speaker set after posting here last night and the general opinion was "yes".

I only have one experience with a SW. My brothers set up about 5 years ago, watching a very quiet part of Star Trek movie ......... there was loud (unpleasantly so) sound of the ships engine in the background with no one speaking. You wouldnt even hear this if listening on a conventional TV. And it was TOTALLY INTRUSIVE and unecessary.

I was thinking I will get enough bass from the 5 speaker set up from B&W. But like i say - the general opinion in reviews was that the SW was required.

You guys have any thoughts ?

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="sjj"]
.................... get them connected with some decent speaker cable and get some decent hdmi cables............. .
[/quote]

Are the cables that I listed (they threw them in) not good ?

I've seen HDMI cables ranging in price from £5 to £500. Tell me if I'm wrong but arent they carrying a digital signal from 1 equipment to another ? Therefore what advantage can the £500 cable give. A digital signal is "0"s and "1"s and either gets from 1 place to another - or not. I dont see how a "0" and "1" can be carried with "better quality" !

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Dubber Ruck"][quote user="sjj"]

.................... get them connected with some decent speaker cable and get some decent hdmi cables............. .

[/quote] Are the cables that I listed (they threw them in) not good ? I've seen HDMI cables ranging in price from £5 to £500. Tell me if I'm wrong but arent they carrying a digital signal from 1 equipment to another ? Therefore what advantage can the £500 cable give. A digital signal is "0"s and "1"s and either gets from 1 place to another - or not. I dont see how a "0" and "1" can be carried with "better quality" ![/quote]

You are not wrong!

 

[Anonymous]

And just after we had got all the worms and put them back in the can... someone goes and lets them all out again!

 

[Anonymous]

Hello Andrew, I'm afraid I'm a complete novice and I think you could be of great help. If you have time, can you please read this thread. Some things are becoming apparent to me .............

1) Speaker cables will be quite important in my set up. Can you advise if what I have been sold (see original post) is ok ? And what is "bi-wiring" of front speakers ?

2) Do i need the B&W sub-woofer ? My room isnt huge (4m x 3m) and i'm thinking I wont really need one. But not short of money and if you recommend it or tell me "it will bring the system alive" - i'll get it.

3) Have i ended up with a good system "by luck" (but more like ....... with good advice - lol)

4) If you do have a little time - please pick up on any of my other questions that havent yet been answered.

Many Thanks
Peter

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="Dubber Ruck"] 1) Speaker cables will be quite important in my set up. Can you advise if what I have been sold (see original post) is ok ? And what is "bi-wiring" of front speakers ?[/quote]

Yes cables are important, and what you'd been sold is fine. Biwiring involves twin runs of cable from the receiver to each speaker, and som - myself included - feel this can give better detail and focus. In the set-up you've got it's not a prerequisite, however.

[quote user="Dubber Ruck"] 2) Do i need the B&W sub-woofer ? My room isnt huge (4m x 3m) and
i'm thinking I wont really need one. But not short of money and if you
recommend it or tell me "it will bring the system alive" - i'll get it.[/quote]

Yes, I think it'll make more of the system. I'd go for the ASW608.

[quote user="Dubber Ruck"]3) Have i ended up with a good system "by luck" (but more like .......
with good advice - lol) [/quote]

It's not to my taste - I personally find the Arcam receivers a bit too laid-back, and I would have gone for the Onkyo TX-SR875, especially with your requirement to play content from the PS3. But then I use an 875 at home, so that's perhaps understandable. No problem at all with the speakers.

[quote user="Dubber Ruck"]4) If you do have a little time - please pick up on any of my other
questions that havent yet been answered.[/quote]

I'd add on a CD player, but something affordable and capable such as the Marantz CD6002. I think you'll find it worth the extre investment.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Dubber Ruck"]Hello and thanks for your input Hi Fi Nut. I had the limitations explained to me in the shop (though i was getting a bit lost - lol) - the sales guy was totally up front when i explained about my useage. He started off trying so sell me the Onkyo - and it was MY preference to go for music quality above "movie watching" qualities.

I've never owned a "quality" sound system ........ but have heard some and want to move into this bracket. Love music - listen endlessly and my bias in this direction was deliberate.

So am i right, what your saying is that playing music from PC or CD (if i buy one) I will get full useage out of the AVR350. But when I'm watching a blu-ray movie on PS3 I wont be ? Will i get ANYTHING from the PS3 through the AVR ? Or are you saying i simply CANT connect the PS3 to it ?

Why did the guy throw in the optical cable ? I thought that was for connecting the PS3 to the AVR ! Or are you saying it will - but it wont be HD decoded ......... just "normal" 5.1 surround sound ? That would be acceptable to me.

Cheers
Peter[/quote]

You'll only get DTS/DD5.1 from the PS3 with the Optical cable but if thats all you do then you're missing out big time. You've got decent speakers so feed them with the best sound output you can, HD, you will tell the difference.

You say you listen to a lot of music. How about when watching a musical or just the background music in films thats music and you will get better sound using uncompressed HD sound.

I think you should get the sub. A sub doesn't have to be intrusive, actually it shouldn't be when set up right. Yes they can crash, bang, wallop when called upon but they underpin the whole music/effects soundstage too. I've got a B&W PV1 as I need it with my FPM's and it's very good, you can probably get as good/better for less cash but it looks the dogs ###### !!

Maybe the friendly dealer would let you demo it at home?

Anyhow I'm glad you wasn't sold a dud by a dodgy dealer and got an amp for good music playback.

I'll put a spanner in the works now and offer another solution.

You could get a dedicated stereo amp if music so important to you AND a cheaper HD AV amp, cost would be comparable to your Arcam,Then connect them together with pre-outs. I've done this in the past and I know people on here still are. It's the best of BOTH worlds.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="sjj"]
relax you have not done one thing wrong arcam kit is short on features lacks audio decoding of new hd audio that is not too bad you have bought the most musical av amp that sensible money can buy in my opinion an amp that sounds better with music always sounds better playng home cinema than any av amp your arcam has 7.1 inputs in time get a blu ray player that decodes the hi def audio on board and passes it out through analoge cables something like the panasonic bd 50 coming soon. your speakers are what im sniffing after get them connected with some decent speaker cable and get some decent hdmi cables i have always used chord they are so natural sounding and their hdmi is awsome if possible bi wire the fronts, if and when you get the bd 50 then you will see what bluray has to offer i have used the ps3 to watch blurays i was impressed with the whole package for the price but i would not buy one on pic performance when you see a stand alone player on your set up you will know what i mean after my advice if your still not happy il give you 1,500 for the lot lol.
[/quote]

Yeah but then he has to buy another Blu-Ray player, £300-500, when he doesn't really NEED it.

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you ALL. This advice is very much appreciated and I am learning.

I've read a lot today on this site about 685 fronts, 686 rears and HTM62 centre and totally happy with choice. The shop are happy to bring along a sub so i will get to try it with and without. But I'm not sure its the one you mentioned Andrew. Is there one that comes as "standard" with the B&W surround package ? That was the one he offered to bring along. Would that be a reasonable alternative - or must i try the one you specifically listed ?

My impression was that the Arcam AVR350 was a real "gem" musically and that if I went to Onkyo it would have all the "bells and whistles" but not quite the same "hi-fidelity" - in its literal sense. Therefore I plumped for the Arcam on the basis it would give me a "great" stereo sound, and i would lose out in "a minor way" on not being able to get the full HDMI audio out of the PS3 blu-ray player.

Are you saying the Onkyo 375 WOULD be equal to the Arcam musically and that I wouldn't lose out the HD audio too ?

Peter

PS. I wont buy another blu-ray player. If i need to change from Arcam to Onkyo then so be it. But not if my original thinking was right. Music first, movie soundtrack 2nd (though hopefully it will be a close 2nd).

 

[Andrew Everard]

The ASW608 is the standard sub in the 685 Theatre package, yes. But if the retailer thinks there's a better choice and can demonstrate its superiority, fine - go for it.

I find the Arcam receivers a bit too 'safe' and uninvolving, but that's just my opinion. Having used the 875 extensively I find it a very capable all-rounder - and I use it as much for music and radio as I do for movies.

But don't take my word for it - have a listen to the two side by side and then decide.

 

[Anonymous]

Re AVR (vs Onkyo), I've got to ask ............. why dont any of the reviews I've read say "a bit too 'safe' and uninvolving" ? I'm obviously not an expert. I've just read lots of reviews say "fantastic" and "nothing to touch it for the money" and "quality piece of kit with real quality sound" .......... basically glowing comments (though in more hi-fi speak language of course). I'm thinking this may now be coming down to personal appreciation, room and cable set up, speaker position, etc ? Does anyone here have an AVR350 ? Is the "safe and uninvolving" comment a common feeling amongst owners ? If so - why didnt the reviews tell me that ? ++++++++++++++++++++ Thanks for sorting the sub. Its the ASW608 the shop were recommending and I'll get it. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Still need convincing about swapping Arcam to Onkyo. More opinions - especially regarding not being able to get HD audio from PS3 - would be useful. Lets put it this way - if I stick with the Arcam and when watching a blu ray movie but with the limited audio (DD 5.1) call that 50% good sound quality. If i switch to the Onkyo and get full HD audio how would it compare ? 55% ? 60% ? 100% ? Can someone please give me an impression of how much sound quality i'm giving up with movies by sticking with the AVR ??

 

[Anonymous]

Have you listened to it yet? Or have you spent all your time worrying about it? Buyer guilt maybe? If I were you and I could afford it, i'd exchange for the Onkyo 875.... it has to be good if Andrew has it and has no ideas about upgrading it any time soon

 

[Anonymous]

No, I havent listened to either yet. I walked past this shop on Saturday and thought "oh - I've been thinking about getting a new sound system and this looks like a good shop - lets go and get one." And came out half hour later having paid for it all (excluding the sub, which the guy said he could bring - and I could try it with and without). +++++++++++++ I dont think its buyer guilt ......... LMAO .......... but i love the term. +++++++++++++++++

No, for the money i wanted to spend I am now convinced by what people have said in this thread that i've got absolutely the right speaker package for me (which is no small miracle on its own), and I will be getting the sub that Andrew recommends. I'm also happy that I've got reasonable speaker cabling and will talk to the guy about bi-wiring the fronts when he comes to set up. For small extra cost - why not have the improvement ? +++++++++++++++++ Same goes for a (Tacima) 6 Way Mains Conditioner & Radio Frequency Interference Filter. Small cost for some improvement. +++++++++++++++++++++ Thanks to all the peeps in this forum for getting me that far !

The only area I'm uncertain of now is the Arcam vs Onkyo. I'm convinced I'll be majorly impressed with the music capabilities of the Arcam. Wish someone could give me an idea of how much I'll be compromising on the movie sound due to lack of HD audio. My best guess is it will still be "great" in DD5.1 through the optical audio cable. One person in this thread has said "no", it would be a big improvement with full HD audio (........ from the Onkyo). Need more feedback on this last point please !

 

[Anonymous]

OK, this evening has been spent looking at reviews of the Onkyo TX-SR875. Virtually all of them say something along the lines of ............ "Two-channel sound is best through the analogue direct inputs, although the stereo music performance slips well below Arcam's AVR350 in this respect." EVERY REVIEW (where the Arcam is mentioned) SAYS THIS. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

For me this is now a no-brainer. I've set out to buy the best stereo sound for my money and the AVR350 will give me that. I wont get the full HD audio - point conceded ............... but i believe that will leave me with a DD5.1 sound from the PS3 which is merely "awesome". +++++++++++++ The kit arrives this Friday and I will be sure to give you a review after the speakers are up their wall mounts and a "40 hour burn in". +++++++ Thank you all for your help. It seems I have been very lucky to end up with exactly what I want. Comments and thoughts still most welcome.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi all 1st time on site looking for advice,looking for speaker system for tv +music.Novice with not much knowledge,seen B+Ws speakers +pv1 sub write ups.Im booking up visit to listen to FPM 5 with PV1 at Sevenoaks,is this the best combination for my uses.Also any advice for a receiver before i call Sevenoaks for a demo

Thanks

Macian

 

[Tonestar1]

Wouldn't go near the 875 when compared to the AVR350 with respect to musical capibilty, doesn't even come close.I dont think anyone who has heard both for music would disagree.

I demo'd both and the Arcam was miles ahead. IMO it was far better with movies too.

It was being fed analogue inputs from a pioneer blu ray player as compared to, admitedley more convenient, HDMI input from the 875. But once it's set up it's set up.

All my opinion of course but that is after at least three hours in the demo room comparing both. 875 sounded great at first but after a while was rather harsh, almost crude.

By all means listen to both and make up your own mind.

One last thing, a la columbo, how much are you paying for the 350? I paid £600 (down from £1550) and at that price it was a steal in fact better than any stereo amp I heard at the price point. May be a little more expensive now but just make sure you're not being ripped off.

Hope this helps

ps demo was through B&W 684 set up.

 

[JoelSim]

I think if you read the reviews of the Arcam it has many many fans. As Andrew says it's not to his taste but it is to a lot of people. I personally wouldn't go near an Onk. Not my cup of tea. I suggest you listen to it before making any judgements and I'll wager you are impressed.

ÿ

ÿ

 

[professorhat]

Okay, first things first, are you using this system more for home cinema or more for music (or are you 50/50 both ways). You mention it's for TV - does this just mean standard Freeview, Sky, Sky HD? And does TV include DVDs / Blu-Rays?

These things are crucial to decide before you even think about auditioning (IMO!).