floorstanding speakers

[admin_exported]

hi,

is it a rule of thumb that floorstanding speakers are better than bookshelf type? i mean if they are of the same price range. which is better, if within the same price-range, bose 201/301 or any other floorstanding speakers (such as kef, klipsch, jamo...etc).

thank you.

 

[plastic penguin]

This thread should run and run....there's such differing views, which is a healthy thing.

Floorstanders generally give bigger bass and greater authority - and of course you don't need the extra expense of dedicated stands.

The downsides is, again generally, need more space to perform at their best. As regards the makes you've mentioned, can't comment.

 

[SHAXOS]

At a similar price id always always go for a bookshelf/standmounters. Its obvious that 1000 spent on 2 quality drivers is better than 1000 spent on 3 or more. Yes you have to factor in decent stands but these dont have to cost the earth. My current speakers only have 1 driver and they sound better than anything else iv had floorstander, bookshelf or otherwise. Just my opinion....

 

[Sliced Bread]

Generally speaking they have a greater scale than bookshelf speakers, however bookshelf speakers are supposed to time better and have better rhythm.

It is personal preference as to which ones you prefer. I chose floorstanders as I was seduced by the increased scale, however I've actually come to regret the decision and wished I'd bought a pair of equivalent prices bookshelf speakers. Particularly because in the average British home, floorstanders can be a bit impractical as they generally need more space to breath. Mine sound excellent with some material, but can boom like crazy in my room if fed some bassy music.

If you do chose to go for bookshelf speakers then don't forget to factor in the price of some good stands, as that can sometimes push the price up quite a bit.

I'm probably teaching you to suck eggs with this information, but just thought I'd share my experiences.

EDIT: Two other advantages with bookshelf speakers: 1) The sound is less coloured (generally speaking). 2) You can play them louder without annoying your neighbours.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Given 2 speakers at the same price point, the floorstander will involve more materials, so could possibly lose out on driver quality.

Let's assume that the drivers, for the sake of argument are the same size and quality. The standmount(SM) has smaller cabinet panels, which tends to be less resonant compared to the larger panels of the floorstander (FS), which needs more bracing to achieve the same ridgidity, adding to the overall cost. Because of this, the FS cabinet joins in with the proceedings, adding a sort of 'bloom' or warmth to the sound, which isn't accurate, but preferable for some. The SM in comparison sounds tighter, leaner, and usually more accurate. The same can be said of the cabinet volume of the two types of speaker - SM speakers have a smaller cabinet volume so sound a little leaner, whereas FS speakers have larger cabinet volumes, so can sound bigger, fuller, and deeper.

For me, depending on the price point, because of the above differences, a SM speaker can produce a more 3D image, because it's leaner, more solid, and producing a technically more accurate sound. Once enough money can be put into a FS speaker, these differences lessen, but are still noticable.

Which the individual prefers is up to them - but the room will also affect how these types of speakers perform in a room (which are all different). Another aspect that affects speaker performance is whether or not the cabinet is sealed, rear ported, front ported, transmission line etc etc.

 

[Anonymous]

SHAXOS:At a similar price id always always go for a bookshelf/standmounters. Its obvious that 1000 spent on 2 quality drivers is better than 1000 spent on 3 or more. Just my opinion....

I suppose we can apply this logic to Integrated Vs. Pre/Power amplifiers as well?! I believe, at any price point a well make integrated will be anyday better than its pre/power siblings.

 

[SHAXOS]

"I suppose we can apply this logic to Integrated Vs. Pre/Power amplifiers as well?! I believe, at any price point a well make integrated will be anyday better than its pre/power siblings"

Sorry have to disagree 🙂 Your logic does not quite work there. The pre section and power section of an integrated are two separate entities that do not work as stand alone products once removed. An integrated is a standalone product that - yes has a pre bit and a power bit - but it works on its own. A pre will not work without a power. You are not comparing like for like so they are not really price comparable. Hence the same logic cannot be applied. You cannot compare a 1000 pound integrated to a 1000 pound pre and 1000 power combination. To get the benifits of a pre and power over an integrated this is what you would have to do. You can compare a 1000 pound integrated to a 500 pound pre and 500 power but then my arguement still stands, as the extra costs involved in making a pre and power separate, with the same budget, would negate the benifits of having them separate in the first place. Also money no object and removing all technical limitations - separating the pre and power means better quality components in each. The same is not the case for drivers in a speaker. Money no object you cannot say having more drivers makes a speaker better. In my opinion, removing all the technical difficulties associated with making such a speaker - the perfect speaker would have one driver capable of reproducing the entire frequency ranges. Once again just my thoughts...

 

[Dan.m]

What about standmounts with a sub VS floorstader debate!!

 

[Frank Harvey]

This is harder to compare as I did below - if we assumed the drivers were the same in number and quality, the cost of a matching sub to keep that quality up would make that combination more expensive. So if we assume that the drivers are the same quality AND the price is the same, here goes. Obviously you still have the same sound from the SM that I mentioned earlier, but along with that, you have a subwoofer, which as it is designed to produce the frequencies the speaker can't, so will be set to kick in between approx 40Hz and 120Hz, depending on the size and quality of the SM speaker. Because of the addition of the sub, it will change the way you hear the standmount - treble will become sweeter for a start, and it'll change the balance of the speaker. In some ways it will make the SM sound more like the floorstander, but give you extra depth which the FS can't match. The good thing about the FS is that it's bass will be capable of better imaging, whereas the sub's output is mono. Many will argue that bass below certain frequencies is omni-directional, which is true to an extent, but if you take a track where that bass is coming from one channel (Queen's Breakthrough intro for example - sorry, not a fan, but a good example!) then this shows that a single subwoofer can't match the imaging qualities of a normal pair of speakers. In recording/mastering studios you'll usually find twin subs. The sub may mask some of the detail and accuracy of the SM speaker, but many will prefer it's fuller, meatier sound, especially for the likes of Massive Attack. A sub will give greater scale, and fill much bigger rooms more easily than a standmount on it's own.

I have heard a few 2 channel systems where a sub has worked well, but if they're not designed to blend in properly, they justend up making a mess and making it all sound false and odd. For me it would either be a case of doing it properly, or not at all.

A sealed subwoofer will generally give better results in many rooms with music. For me, ported subs need to be used more subtlely, otherwise their ported nature tends to make itself known. But that's a whole other story

 

[Dan.m]

David,

Lets say i am interested in rega rs5 floorstander speaker (£850) to match with naim xs or cyrus xp amp

1) could you suggest an alternative standmount

2) a standmount with sub (i suspect you would not favour this combination at this price point)

The source will be sonos (lossless) - However, I'm also looking for a sutable DAC so maybe a cyrus XPd may be better or do i get a separate dac e.g. beresford. ???!!!! Its like trying to chose eggs in a supermarket (organic/corn fed/barn reared/free range aaahhhh)

Someone just give a short list!!

 

[Frank Harvey]

Personally, I wouldn't team up Rega speakers with Cyrus systems - they're both a little on the bright side. The Rega's will go with Rega and Naim no problem.

An alternative standmount - there's plenty! Assuming you don't need stands, there's the Proac Tablette 8 Signature, ATC SCM11, KEF XQ10, Monitor Audio GS10, B&W CM5, and the Dynaudio Excite X12. You could narrow it down if you knew which electronics you were going for, and the room it was going into

 

[Anonymous]

hi to all.

thanks a lot for responding. i know understand. there's really no clear-cut understanding if FS is better than bookshelf or mounted. it depends on how the speakers are built, depends on the room they will be installed, and depends on the listeners prerogative; is it deeper base over crispier tweeter. i really have to go out and try listening to them in audio shops.

regards.

 

[Frank Harvey]

oneth789:i really have to go out and try listening to them in audio shops.Definitely!!

 

[matthewpiano]

Some really interesting posts in this thread. I think David has covered the issues very comprehensively from a cost/design/technical stand point so I'm just here to share my personal thoughts.

I've had more speakers than any other component and I think, because of the way they interact with not just the electronics, but also the listening space, they are the most difficult part of hi-fi to get right.

I've come to the conclusion that, for me and in my room, standmounts are the way forward. I find they give superior imaging and soundstaging and that they are more able to take flight rhythmically when the music demands it. I've been listening to my 11Ls today and their ability to bring appropriate attack to the music whilst retaining good tonal reproduction and soundstaging has really caught me unawares.

I have to say, though, that I've also been very impressed with Rega R3s in auditions and they are, of course, floorstanders. VERY musical speakers which seem to combine the fleet footedness of standmounts with that extra bit of weight. I'd love to hear how they sound in my own room. They are th eonly floorstanders at the price point that have really gripped me though.

 

[Anonymous]

Those Rega's do look very interesting but with only having the one woofer driver, do they carry enough bass weight? that is my only concern with them.

 

[True Blue]

Absolutely, you can position them anywhere as well as they are front ported so can be sat close to a rear wall. Also you can experiment with the woofers facing each other or away from each other, dependant upon your room and preference. I have mine firing inwards towards each other, but in the shop demo they sounded better facing away from each other.

 

[plastic penguin]

True Blue:Absolutely, you can position them anywhere as well as they are front ported so can be sat close to a rear wall. Also you can experiment with the woofers facing each other or away from each other, dependant upon your room and preference. I have mine firing inwards towards each other, but in the shop demo they sounded better facing away from each other.

The Rega R3's are they more forgiving speaker, in terms of character than most other price compatible monitors? A lot you guys praise them, but still yet to gain a definitive explanation [or mental picture]of their character.

Apologies to the OP for barging in on the thread....

 

[Anonymous]

Just to randomly jump in, the R3s and R5s have a tonal balance on the brighter side of neutral so they're not hugely forgiving of recordings if partnered with brighter kit. I wouldn't put them with CA or Cyrus.

 

[plastic penguin]

igglebert:Just to randomly jump in, the R3s and R5s have a tonal balance on the brighter side of neutral so they're not hugely forgiving of recordings if partnered with brighter kit. I wouldn't put them with CA or Cyrus.

Thank you, iggle.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry, only just noticed that David covered this. Perhaps I won't dive in before leaving work next time...

 

[ear]

matthewpiano..one question for you, and maybe others....the L11 ...does the bass driver move in and out alot? on the demo i had it mooved quite much. normal?

 

[gpi]

I have heard standmounts with an unbelievable amount of slam and bass delivery (Focal Micro Utopia BE as just one example). You could close your eyes and think you were hearing large floorstanders. I have also heard floorstanders sound like a small pair of bookshelf speakers. IMO there are good speakers and there are not so good speakers (not many bad ones around generally these days) and the decision as to whether to go for floorstanders or standmounts is purely a personal one. A standmount on a heavy stand will usually have the same footprint as a large floorstander and the former needs room to perform at its best just as much as the latter does.

Bass is overrated IMO, we have small rooms that cannot cope.

 

[ear]

true.floorstanders sound ok in small rooms only at very moderate volume...push it up and the bass becomes overwhelming.so im in the market for standmounters..or lean floorstanders

 

[a91gti]

gpi:I have heard standmounts with an unbelievable amount of slam and bass delivery (Focal Micro Utopia BE as just one example). You could close your eyes and think you were hearing large floorstanders. I have also heard floorstanders sound like a small pair of bookshelf speakers. IMO there are good speakers and there are not so good speakers (not many bad ones around generally these days) and the decision as to whether to go for floorstanders or standmounts is purely a personal one. A standmount on a heavy stand will usually have the same footprint as a large floorstander and the former needs room to perform at its best just as much as the latter does.

I pretty much agree with you, my Sonys will go down to 38hz but still have loads of punch and great imaging. I`ve owned a lot of speakers ( maybe thirty or more pairs ) of bookshelf, standmount and floorstanding types and as much as I liked some of the small boxes I always preferred floorstanders if only because I like BIG speakers. Now I`ve got these Sony standmounts and wont part with them, even when I get my hands on some Leaks.

 

[gpi]

ear:true.floorstanders sound ok in small rooms only at very moderate volume...push it up and the bass becomes overwhelming.so im in the market for standmounters..or lean floorstanders

Why just the bass? Why do many people equate floorstanders with heavy bass, especially when turned up? My Ruarks go loud but with all frequencies increasing, not just the bass. In fact it's the higher frequencies becoming shrill that can make me turn it down (especially with nasty digital recordings). In general, floorstanders can go lower and dig out deeper bass but that doesn't increase out of proportion when the wick is turned up, not with mine anyway. There seems to be a general misconception that floorstanders can only be used in a large room and standmounts cannot fill a large room. It all depends on a synergy between the quality of the speaker, the size of the space it's working in and the calibre of the supplying components. There's always the volume knob too. I listen mostly at quiet to medium levels and hardly ever at the ear-splitting volumes some dealers like to demo at.