Floorstanders or Subwoofer?

[admin_exported]

I currently have a set of B&W 685s driven by a Rotel RA-04 amp. I'd like a bit more from the low end and I have been considering the following two upgrades, but I cannot decided what would be best:

1. Sell the 685s and the Z2 stands and purchase a RA-06/03 power amp long with a set of 684 speakers.

2. Purchase an ASW610 subwoofer (I need to audition this) and have that running with my current setup.

I want to be able to achieve a well integrated sound as I will be listening to just music through them. The bass must be fast, tight and well balanced. I understand that subwoofers can take some time to set up, but if it is achievable, I don't mind tweaking. This would save me the hassle of selling half of my gear. On the other hand, I love the sound from the 684s, but a power amp is a must to help out the RA-04.

Both upgrades should cost around about the same price (power amp will be purchased second hand.)

What do you guys think?

 

[jaxwired]

Chris,

Home theater is a far bigger market than 2 channel stereo. Subwoofers are therefore all designed to sound great with movies. They are almost never designed for music as the primary target (there are rare and expensive exceptions). Mission accomplished, they usually do a great job with car crashes and explosions, but a poor job with music.

I highly recommend that you not waste time and money trying to make a sub work in a music system. You will most likely end up frustrated and poorer. Unless you are one of those people that like a fat distorted boomy bass (think teenagers and car stereos), then you will be unhappy.

You don't need a 15 inch woofer with 20hz capabilities. What you want is nice integrated bass in the 40hz to 75hz region. This is what floorstanders provide. And the B&W 684's are well known for doing a great job with bass. Plus, you already know you like the 68x series from B&W.

 

[Anonymous]

I guess it depends on how much low bass you want. If you want deeper, cleaner bass then adding an RB06 to the RA04 to biamp will give you more control and power. The floorstanders wil def give you the most overall welly but will sacrifice some speed and clarity. The sub is going to potentially give an in between. I think that when considering budget floorstanders like the 684s, a sub is probably going to be more successful.

It's best to use the sub high level connection (Speakon Neutrik cable) to slave off the speaker binding posts of the amp. The sub's amp will effectively take the signature of the sound and use it to voice the sub, with no power draw. The tighter and deeper the bass control from the amp the better the sound from the sub. Thus, adding an RB06 power amp will probably clean the sub sound up as well as the 685s!

 

[the record spot]

You could get a decent sub from the likes of REL, but I'd suggest a really good pair of floorstanders, which are reviewed as having good bass, would do the trick.

Q Acoustics 1050i, as a minimum, are reckoned to be a very dynamic speaker, plenty of beef down below, but no slouch in making music sound very enjoyable. For £370 at current RRP, you can source them for less than £300 in many dealers in the UK.

The 685s are "of their time" I think; good, revealing, but lacking in the low end, what they do have is lean rather than ably endowed. When you do need more you apparently need to buy a sub. In the typical home, I have doubts this is really necessary.

Try out some good floorstanders, do some research and see what can do the job. Alternatively, if you must, buy a good sub as a last resort.

 

[basshead]

hi chris, what genres of music do you listen to? and at what kind of volumes?

 

[aliEnRIK]

I agree with the comments that subs are generally made for movies and not music. Instead of being fast and agile they tend to be slow and lumpy. Very few 'gel' well with speakers. Those that do connect directly to the speaker outs on the amp. Personally I dont use a sub for this very reason.

My MA's go so low everyone who comes thinks I DO use a sub (Movies rumble the floor

)

 

[Anonymous]

I have got some S30 standmounters and the S90 subwoofer and it doesnt sound lazy or lumpy at all, mind you it has only got an 8 inch woofer and it is only 65 watts. I think that any bigger or more powerful and it wouldnt have the same result.

 

[Anonymous]

the record spot:The 685s are "of their time" I think; good, revealing, but lacking in the low end, what they do have is lean rather than ably endowed.
My experience of the 685s on a Primare I30 was that they did a lot of bass for their size, verging on to the boomy stuff you get when the laws of physics restrict you!

 

[ear]

JG333 what amp do you use?

 

[matthewpiano]

Trying them at home, I thought the bass was well judge on the 685s. On decent stands (Atacama Nexus 6) and with a little room around them I found the bass to be deep and tuneful without any excess boom.

If you want more bass I think you need to be looking at a floorstander. One of the great things about the 685s is that integration between the drive units and the bass, mid, and treble frequencies is very good. I think you risk losing that with a sub.

If you like the B&Ws I'd try the 684s. It might also be worth demoing them against the Q Acoustics 1050i Record Spot suggested and also something more price comparable such as the Mordaunt-Short Mezzo 6, just to make sure you get the best you possibly can,

 

[the record spot]

I wasn't saying the bass they did wasn't good, or in evidence, but I think compared to a pair of Linn Keilidhs or the Q Acoustics 1050i, there would be a noticeable difference. Probably an obvious thing to say given the diemnsions of the two floorstanders, but I think worth mentioning given the OPs aims.

Incidentally, I'm not writing standmounts off - the Mission 751s I had some years ago did a very good line in bass, and held it together well, but give me a good floorstander (not just any one!) if I have to choose!

 

[Anonymous]

The world of hifi has a lot of skinned cats in it methinks...

 

[the record spot]

Yep, agreed.

 

[Anonymous]

I use a cambridge audio 340A amplifier

 

[Anonymous]

I use a cambridge audio 340C

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the hints people.

Seems like floorstanders are the way to go then! I must admit, what I found most attractive about a sub was the fact that I would have a little more control. If the neighbours were in one evening, I could always turn the gain down on the sub. Having said that, I suppose that's what tone controls are for, should I ever need to turn the bass down. I was also lead to believe that the bass from a seperate sub had the edge on a floorstander, if tuned properly of course.

I think I will have another demo of the 684s again, alongside some equivalents.

Oh, Basshead, I listen to mostly Dance, Electronica and Drum & Bass.

685s anyone?

Cheers.

 

[basshead]

Chris_J:
Oh, Basshead, I listen to mostly Dance, Electronica and Drum & Bass.

Cheers.

great tastes in music! in that case i strongly reccommend auditioning a sub. especially for drum and bass!

i have one of these:

http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/monolith-df.htm

http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/monolith-df.htmi'm listening to the sub-focus essential mix (from radio1) right now, my sub is pumping out some very nice bass, can really feel it hit my bones.

it took a while to set up the sub properly, but now that i have - it is the best thing i have ever ever bought, ever. i get plenty of bass in the 20 - 40 hz region, i doubt any floor stander could go that low! or if they do, it will be lacking the impact a sub can deliver.

audition as many subs as you can, but i can strongly reccommend the bk monolith for your music tastes

 

[Anonymous]

Don't discount the sub option. Try both the sub and floorstander options but remember, a sub provides flexibility and allows better placement than the extra speaker bass units might. When you get to a certain price point then floorstanders will be a better option. I find that floorstanders under a k or so have more disadvantages than the bookshelf/sub option. Personal experience, might not be yours.

I suspect you'll enjoy either when it comes to it!

 

[the record spot]

Yep, for drum 'n' bass, and other electronica, a good quality sub might well be the answer, or at least worth considering. REL would be my pick, but not being a sub fan, I go with their name as it's been around for so long and they've typically produced great product (Quake and Strata being two older examples I can think of straight off the bat) - can't think of any of their subs getting a duff review to be fair.

Budget floorstanders, though in some cases excellent, have to sacrifice something to achieve their price point, listen to both and see what you prefer. The tweakability of a high quality sub might be what you need for the music you like.

 

[jase fox]

Although floorstanders can be great for bass i still dont think you can beat a good sub for it though, but then it all depends on what music you listen to? As for me being mainly into rock i couldnt be without my subs for music.

So for me theres no compromise on this subject matter, its use of a sub all day long for me.

But i'd certainly recommend you try both & see what suits you best.

 

[Anonymous]

Chris_J:

Oh, Basshead, I listen to mostly Dance, Electronica and Drum & Bass.

685s anyone?

Cheers.

I listen to a lot of stuff in those genres (along with others). I think floorstanders are better for music with a fast beat, as subs may not always keep up.. I guess there are differences in subs and you could potentially find one that's fast and musical, but it is not the obvious option. Try Epos M sub and a sub from B.K. if you decide to go that route - I hear those are fairly musical. For floorstanders, try MA RS6s along with 684s, they pump out some serious bass.

 

[Anonymous]

Cheers guys, you have given me some excellent ideas there.

I'm looking to spend around £350-400 on either upgrading to a sub or getting the floorstanders (the latter of which would included a second hand power amp.)

The Monolinth sub looks excellent, and I hear very good reviews about it, but is unfortunately out of my price range. I'm definitely going to audition the B&W ASW610, as I hear that is quite well suited to musical applications.

Regarding "setting them up", a few of you have said this is quite a difficult process. Is there a set process to find the sweet spot, or it is all just down to taste and experimentation?

 

[basshound]

Chris_J:
Cheers guys, you have given me some excellent ideas there.

I'm looking to spend around £350-400 on either upgrading to a sub or getting the floorstanders (the latter of which would included a second hand power amp.)

The Monolinth sub looks excellent, and I hear very good reviews about it, but is unfortunately out of my price range. I'm definitely going to audition the B&W ASW610, as I hear that is quite well suited to musical applications.

Regarding "setting them up", a few of you have said this is quite a difficult process. Is there a set process to find the sweet spot, or it is all just down to taste and experimentation?

Also have a look at the MJ Acoustics range of subs

 

[Anonymous]

If dont mind spending a few bob this is the lazy man's way of getting your sub set up in a few minutes. Ive heard very good things about it!

http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/anti-mode.htm

.

 

[Anonymous]

I can heartily recommend buying a quality subwoofer. I've been into hi-fi for years but had never experienced the delights of storming bass until I picked up a secondhand REL stampede from Sevenoaks in Bristol about a month ago. Admitedly my favourite styles are reggae and dance music, but I also listen to a whole range from Beethoven to The Killers, and this sub is a revelation. It cost me just over half the original price of 640 squids, and is a blinding sub; quick,precise and highly tweakable. I also auditioned the REL T3 and T2 and thought they were excellent, though the T3 is really for smaller rooms. The T2 retails at a smidge under 400 squids and is an excellent choice if you want something new. Get lucky secondhand like I did and you'll be bouncing round your room with a massive grin on your chops!