First Hi Fi Venture. Best amp for CM8 speakers

[BluePotato]

Hello one and all. As title suggests I'm looking to buy my first Stereo seperates systems for listening to music only.

My budget to be fair has increased after auditioning some kit at my local Superfi store, I want to spend the least possible but head straight in and buy a system I'll be pleased with for years. Initially I went in to listen to B&W 684's and KEF Q500's with the Roksan Kandy K2. For me the 684's won this contest hands down over the disappointing KEF's. Whilst there though I couldn't help notice the beauty of the CM8's. Interested in the 'difference' the jump in price buys I asked to hook these up. Initially, whilst I thought better than the 684's, it was more closer than was expecting at a reasonable volume (to the untrained ear) - phew, no need to blow the budget on the oh so beautiful CM8's then. Then the sales assistant reduced the volume as we were talking and I (and an accompanying friend) immediately noticed that this was where the CM8's really shone. They just seemed to retain that crisp clarity at a lower volume far better than the 684's - stunning.

I live in a semi detached and would like to remain a considerate neighbour post purchase so this now becomes a major factor as majority of the time the volume won't be 'loud'. Floorboards are wood and my room is 13ft by 12ft with ceilings 9ft.

So, month or 2 thinking about this and I've decided on the CM8 speakers, anything less I think I'll regret and wish I just pushed the boat a little further. I've not purchased them yet as they are circa £1250 everywhere from what I can see but I understand in the appropriate sale at Superfi they reduce to approx £1050 so I will wait.

I was all set for the Roksan Kandy too but started reading the forums and one or 2 other amps seem to be suggested as good partners for the CM8's.

Rotel RA-1520

Cyrus?? (don't know much about these)

Rega Brio (cheaper but I'm assuming not in the league of the other amps mentioned here?)

Really don't want to go above £700 for the amp (Roksan seems to retail circa £750 but I have seen available at £650 - Superfi suggested they would do it for this price). Is the Roksan as good as it gets? What Hi Fi seem to think so. I've got a varied music taste, like, rock, folk, jazz. Not particularly into dance or massive bass, far prefer, clarity and natural reproduction of sound. I.e. love the fact the Roksan doesn't have an EQ - would never touch it anyway, want to hear a record as it's intended.

Only piece of kit I've actually bought so far is a DacMagic as they were being sold off in Richer Sounds for £170 so couldn't say no. I've no idea when it comes to cables - that will come once decided on the amp.

Any thoughts on the above? No doubt I've missed some key info but would be interested in anyone had experience of the above set ups. Next step is another demo yes - not sure if Superfi have the other amps in, I hear Sevenoaks is good?

Thanks in advance.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi BluePotato

Welcome to the WHF Forum

Would you also be willing to consider a used amplifier?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[richardw42]

Tread carefully.

I had a pair of CM7s that sounded superb with a Musical Fidelity XA2 amp. However, after auditioning I swapped for a rocks an k2 amp, and to put it concisely it was a bit of a disaster.

After initially impressing it really didn't gel

I appreciate I had the 7s so am assuming they share some of the CM8s characteristics.

Something like the Musical Fidelity M3i (ex demo) might be good

Or buy a 2nd hand XA2 and a pair of MF XA200s and biamp the CM8s.

 

[plastic penguin]

Hello one and all. As title suggests I'm looking to buy my first Stereo seperates systems for listening to music only.

My budget to be fair has increased after auditioning some kit at my local Superfi store, I want to spend the least possible but head straight in and buy a system I'll be pleased with for years. Initially I went in to listen to B&W 684's and KEF Q500's with the Roksan Kandy K2. For me the 684's won this contest hands down over the disappointing KEF's. Whilst there though I couldn't help notice the beauty of the CM8's. Interested in the 'difference' the jump in price buys I asked to hook these up. Initially, whilst I thought better than the 684's, it was more closer than was expecting at a reasonable volume (to the untrained ear) - phew, no need to blow the budget on the oh so beautiful CM8's then. Then the sales assistant reduced the volume as we were talking and I (and an accompanying friend) immediately noticed that this was where the CM8's really shone. They just seemed to retain that crisp clarity at a lower volume far better than the 684's - stunning.

I live in a semi detached and would like to remain a considerate neighbour post purchase so this now becomes a major factor as majority of the time the volume won't be 'loud'. Floorboards are wood and my room is 13ft by 12ft with ceilings 9ft.

So, month or 2 thinking about this and I've decided on the CM8 speakers, anything less I think I'll regret and wish I just pushed the boat a little further. I've not purchased them yet as they are circa £1250 everywhere from what I can see but I understand in the appropriate sale at Superfi they reduce to approx £1050 so I will wait.

I was all set for the Roksan Kandy too but started reading the forums and one or 2 other amps seem to be suggested as good partners for the CM8's.

Rotel RA-1520

Cyrus?? (don't know much about these)

Rega Brio (cheaper but I'm assuming not in the league of the other amps mentioned here?)

Really don't want to go above £700 for the amp (Roksan seems to retail circa £750 but I have seen available at £650 - Superfi suggested they would do it for this price). Is the Roksan as good as it gets? What Hi Fi seem to think so. I've got a varied music taste, like, rock, folk, jazz. Not particularly into dance or massive bass, far prefer, clarity and natural reproduction of sound. I.e. love the fact the Roksan doesn't have an EQ - would never touch it anyway, want to hear a record as it's intended.

Only piece of kit I've actually bought so far is a DacMagic as they were being sold off in Richer Sounds for £170 so couldn't say no. I've no idea when it comes to cables - that will come once decided on the amp.

Any thoughts on the above? No doubt I've missed some key info but would be interested in anyone had experience of the above set ups. Next step is another demo yes - not sure if Superfi have the other amps in, I hear Sevenoaks is good?

Thanks in advance.

Hi BluePotato

Really won't go far wrong with the Leema Pulse. Originally retailed around the £1300 mark. I purchased mine from the same company and absolutely love the sound.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leema-Acoustics-Pulse-Integrated-Amplifier-Silver-NEW-/180875823134?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item2a1d0a081e

Can't be bettered at this price IMO*. Also fantastic at idling levels. Like you I live in a semi... and we have a young daughter, so volume has to be carefully moderated.

*The only slight snag is I haven't heard it with B&W speakers. Shouldn't be problem with controlling the CM8s though.

 

[pgoody]

I quite like the sound coming from my Cyrus 8 xpd + b&w 685 (which will be switched to CM9s some time in the near future)

The price on the Cyrus 6a just dropped to 699 and WHF says it sounds better than its predecessor. Try to audition the 6 with the CM8's. It only has 40 watts per channel but if you want to listen at a 'reasonable' loudness this might not be a problem. Plus the CM8's are bi-wireable so you could get a 6 power amp later and bi amp vertically or horizontally. Or get an 8 or X power and use the 6 as a pre if you want to have more power.

 

[bluedroog]

Regardless of what the spec sheets say the CM8s are speakers which thrive on power, I’d be looking at 80wpc channel as a minimum. I’ve heard the CM8’s on a less powerful amp and wasn’t that impressed, given more juice and they just came alive which isn’t always the case for all speakers in regards to power.

Firstly you really need to listen, Cyrus for example are the kind of amps that divide opinion, personally I’m no fan but many love them and those that do consider them a good match with the CM series.

I don’t think you could go far wrong with a beefy Rotel integrated amp.

 

[BluePotato]

Great response guys, thanks.

Musiccraft - Ideally looking for a good price new but always open to a 2nd hand bargain in top notch condition

Plastic Penguin - Never heard of this?! Just had a quick look at some reviews and looks a no brainer? Do you think this is definitely a league up from the Roksan? We have a SevenOaks about 40mins from where I live, never been before. Could do with a demo - need to investigate further

Pgoody and bluedroog - appreciate the input. No nothing of Cyrus but sounds like again I need a demo.

Amazing - thought I was nailed on for the amp (Roksan) and it was the speakers I had to decide - looks like it's the other way around. Is there a formula that should be aimed for - i.e. should amp cost as much as speakers? Suppose the Roksan wins best amp under a grand even though costs less on What Hi Fi awards and the Leema was over a grand not too long ago....

 

[plastic penguin]

Great response guys, thanks.

Musiccraft - Ideally looking for a good price new but always open to a 2nd hand bargain in top notch condition

Plastic Penguin - Never heard of this?! Just had a quick look at some reviews and looks a no brainer? Do you think this is definitely a league up from the Roksan? We have a SevenOaks about 40mins from where I live, never been before. Could do with a demo - need to investigate further

Pgoody and bluedroog - appreciate the input. No nothing of Cyrus but sounds like again I need a demo.

Amazing - thought I was nailed on for the amp (Roksan) and it was the speakers I had to decide - looks like it's the other way around. Is there a formula that should be aimed for - i.e. should amp cost as much as speakers? Suppose the Roksan wins best amp under a grand even though costs less on What Hi Fi awards and the Leema was over a grand not too long ago....

I dem'd mine, not at same branch, alongside Roksan Caspian M1 and Naim XS (all around the same price) and kept returning to the Leema. It is a fun amp: The bass power is very good, likewise imaging and dynamics. However, the main achilles heel with the Pulse, alongside the aforementioned amps there's a slight shortfall in bass depth. However, in isolation it pales into insignificance. Not worth a mention.

Two years after I bought the Leema, I still have a big grin on my face. It brings music to life.

 

[plastic penguin]

Great response guys, thanks.

Musiccraft - Ideally looking for a good price new but always open to a 2nd hand bargain in top notch condition

Plastic Penguin - Never heard of this?! Just had a quick look at some reviews and looks a no brainer? Do you think this is definitely a league up from the Roksan? We have a SevenOaks about 40mins from where I live, never been before. Could do with a demo - need to investigate further

Pgoody and bluedroog - appreciate the input. No nothing of Cyrus but sounds like again I need a demo.

Amazing - thought I was nailed on for the amp (Roksan) and it was the speakers I had to decide - looks like it's the other way around. Is there a formula that should be aimed for - i.e. should amp cost as much as speakers? Suppose the Roksan wins best amp under a grand even though costs less on What Hi Fi awards and the Leema was over a grand not too long ago....

No is the answer. This hobby is so subjective, the ONLY formula is what appeals to you.

I've heard the Kandy K2 and it's a very good amp, likewise the Creek Evo2... the latter impressed a bit more to me. Take your speakers and source along and see how you progress.

Also, because SS&V are mainly franchised it's unlikely to have an amp transferred. But they do offer a returns policy. Or if the Pulse doesn't appeal you sell it on and not lose much money.

BTW, what source do you have? And what are your room acoustics like? hard flooring or carpets, curtains, and soft furnishings?

 

[DIB]

Isn't there a 10% off everything sale at Superfi this coming bank holiday weekend? The already mentioned excellent Creek Evo 2 could well be reduced down from £750 to £675. Not heard it with the B & W's but I found mine very good at lower levels, and I would definitely put it forward for consideration.

.

 

[plastic penguin]

Isn't there a 10% off everything sale at Superfi this coming bank holiday weekend? The already mentioned excellent Creek Evo 2 could well be reduced down from £750 to £675. Not heard it with the B & W's but I found mine very good at lower levels, and I would definitely put it forward for consideration.

.

Yup, the Evo2 is a fabulous amp even at £750. But have to say the Pulse takes it another 'jump up' the ladder. Considering the Pulse is being sold (brand new) for £675, it's a no brainer.

 

[BluePotato]

Checked with my local SevenOaks and they don't have the Leema Pulse anymore so if I go for that it will be blind - quite a leap of faith. Think I need to go demo Cyrus, Naim, Roksan as a bare minimum and take it from there. Confusion maximus though - if the Leema really is a step up then maybe wasting my time and should get that and just focus on finding a good price for CM8's.

Sometimes there is just too much choice.

 

[BluePotato]

Checked with my local SevenOaks and they don't have the Leema Pulse anymore so if I go for that it will be blind - quite a leap of faith. Think I need to go demo Cyrus, Naim, Roksan as a bare minimum and take it from there. Confusion maximus though - if the Leema really is a step up then maybe wasting my time and should get that and just focus on finding a good price for CM8's.

Sometimes there is just too much choice.

 

[plastic penguin]

Checked with my local SevenOaks and they don't have the Leema Pulse anymore so if I go for that it will be blind - quite a leap of faith. Think I need to go demo Cyrus, Naim, Roksan as a bare minimum and take it from there. Confusion maximus though - if the Leema really is a step up then maybe wasting my time and should get that and just focus on finding a good price for CM8's.

Sometimes there is just too much choice.

The Cyrus will be a mixed bag. If you plump for the 6 it only has 40 watts per channel and may struggle to drive the CM8s, therefore the 8 @ 70 watts would be the minimum. The Roksan Caspian has 70 watts, while the Kandy has 130. Naim will drive them well but my choice if you can get hold of one at the right price would be Rotel. Both B&W and Rotel share the same factory on the south coast and they are a cracking match. As a minimum I would look at Rotel's RA-06...

Tell you a little story: At this point the regulars on here will go for a yawn break It took me close on two years to upgrade my old Arcam. I tried virtually every well known brand of integrated amp below the £1,000 mark: Cyrus, Roksan, Creek, Marantz, Primare, Rotel, Naim to mention just a few. Only the Creek Evo2 had a big enough uplift in sound, but lacked inputs.

Looked at the Pulse many times but couldn't afford the normal retail price. Only when the MKIII updated version came out that the price plummeted. After hearing the Pulse and comparing it price compatible integrateds was I satisfied the Leema was correct.

Heard it with a number of different speakers: MA GS10, Spendor SA-1, my RS6s, Focal. In the subsequent time since buying it I've heard it with PMC and Totem. It's a stonking amp and mine cost £750.

 

[AL13N]

Only piece of kit I've actually bought so far is a DacMagic as they were being sold off in Richer Sounds for £170 so couldn't say no. I've no idea when it comes to cables - that will come once decided on the amp.

Richer Sounds in London are also selling the CA 650A for £199.95 and CA 840A V2 for £499.95.

Also check out the Harman Kardon HK980, available for £299.95 from Superfi.

For cables have a look here: www.ThatCable.com

Good Luck

 

[plastic penguin]

Just a quick thought: If you have a Richer Sounds near you, listen to the Cambridge Azur 840. Slightly over budget, although some branches may have 'Out of the box' models. Not a keen Cambridge fan but the 840 sounded pretty good with my RS6s, and with 120 watts of power, has plenty on tap. Again, like the Creek, not as good as the Leema IMO, but offers a lot for the money nonetheless.

 

[plastic penguin]

Just a quick thought: If you have a Richer Sounds near you, listen to the Cambridge Azur 840. Slightly over budget, although some branches may have 'Out of the box' models. Not a keen Cambridge fan but the 840 sounded pretty good with my RS6s, and with 120 watts of power, has plenty on tap. Again, like the Creek, not as good as the Leema IMO, but offers a lot for the money nonetheless.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Great response guys, thanks.

Musiccraft - Ideally looking for a good price new but always open to a 2nd hand bargain in top notch condition

Hi BluePotato

Thanks for your reply and your welcome.

In which case then also consider Rotel's superb RA-1062 amplifier. Good used RA-1062's are generally available for £300 - £400.

As an alternative to CM8's i'll recommend Monitor Audio's Silver RX6's or Silver RX8's and again pairing either Silver RX model with an RA-1062.

For new components and staying close to your budget, then also look at Densen Audio Technologies B-110 Plus amplifier and pairing the B-110 Plus with Silver RX6's. I've find this to be an excellent combination

Btw, as for cables i'll recommend using just basic interconnects and 79 strand OFC or 500 strand OFC speaker cables as these will be more then good enough. These cables should cost you very little money.

http://densen.dk/index.php?page=densen-b-110

http://www.monitoraudio.co.uk/products/silver-rx/rx6/

http://www.monitoraudio.co.uk/products/silver-rx/rx8/

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[BluePotato]

Rick - just taken a look at the MA RX6 online - they are a fair bit cheaper than the B&W CM8's - you think they are sonically in the sae league? Would expect the CM8's to be a step up?

My head is definitely heading towards either a new original Leema Pulse or 2nd hand Leema Pulse iii (if I can get past the looks). Plan is to buy the amp then book an afternoon at Superfi to hook up to everything they've got.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi BluePotato

Silver RX6's are capable of punching above their weight. For even better performance and at a similar to the CM8's then also try Silver RX8's.

Btw, don't forget Densen's B-110 Plus as it's an excellent amplifier and one which I also feel looks great especially in Albino Silver 8)

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[plastic penguin]

Rick - just taken a look at the MA RX6 online - they are a fair bit cheaper than the B&W CM8's - you think they are sonically in the sae league? Would expect the CM8's to be a step up?

My head is definitely heading towards either a new original Leema Pulse or 2nd hand Leema Pulse iii (if I can get past the looks). Plan is to buy the amp then book an afternoon at Superfi to hook up to everything they've got.

Have you thought about Leema's own speaker http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leema-Acoustics-Xone-Main-Stereo-Speakers-/160814636128?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item25714c9c60

The Xones originally retailed at £1,700 and can be had, same outlet, although non showing at the moment, for £599. I've not heard them reviews state they major on detail and speed. Should be a great match for the Pulse.

At the mo I have a thing for Totem Arro. Match really well with the Pulse, and the only reason I haven't snapped a pair up is because they are easily knocked over. Would hate to spend £1400 on speaker to watch them go "Timber!" Fantastic speaker though.

I have the RS6 (see my sig) and they are a very good match with Leema... if the room acoustics are right. Plus the DacMagic + Leema + RS6 or RX6 isn't great. They just don't seem to synergise to my ears. If you go Monitor Audiio route with the Leema I'd seriously look at Arcams rDac as a minimum or Rega Dac.

From personal experience I'd avoid any Dac or any source that's analytical.

 

[BluePotato]

From personal experience I'd avoid any Dac or any source that's analytical.

Wouldn't that restrict me to only vinyl? I thought all digital media devices contain a DAC of some sort from the inbuilt speaker in my mac to a top of the range CD player.

Must admit I've got the blinkers on with the speakers - heavily biased towards the CM8 from that first demo and the look. Love 'em. When the Leema arrives I will do the right thing and take it into Superfi to try alongside others too - might try do it blind too to avoid the bias! Praying they 'sing' well together though.

Interconnects and cables next then.

 

[plastic penguin]

From personal experience I'd avoid any Dac or any source that's analytical.

Wouldn't that restrict me to only vinyl? I thought all digital media devices contain a DAC of some sort from the inbuilt speaker in my mac to a top of the range CD player.

Must admit I've got the blinkers on with the speakers - heavily biased towards the CM8 from that first demo and the look. Love 'em. When the Leema arrives I will do the right thing and take it into Superfi to try alongside others too - might try do it blind too to avoid the bias! Praying they 'sing' well together though.

Interconnects and cables next then.

Yes they do but they only convert a digital signal to analogue, so it's all the other gubbings around that influences the sound. The DacMagic is quite mechanical, whereas the Arcam rDac reflects the other Arcam ranges. The same with other standalone Dacs.

I suppose you could equate it to car engines: Look at a 2.0 ltr Audi and a 2.0ltr Skoda. Both have the same power plant and gearbox but the Audi has better overall performance.

Another part of the strange world of hi-fi.

Audition is the best way of determining what speakers and Dac will suit the Leema best.

 

[BluePotato]

Got bit more info from SevenOaks. Leema are doing a final batch of 200 Pulse exclusively through Seven Oaks Brighton. Apparently they are getting close to the end of that batch and that's it. Not sure if I'm more excited to feel the spring in the standby button or how it actually sounds given this review from TechRadar:

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/audio-visual/hi-fi-and-audio/amplifiers/leema-pulse-316795/review

 

[plastic penguin]

Got bit more info from SevenOaks. Leema are doing a final batch of 200 Pulse exclusively through Seven Oaks Brighton. Apparently they are getting close to the end of that batch and that's it. Not sure if I'm more excited to feel the spring in the standby button or how it actually sounds given this review from TechRadar:

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/audio-visual/hi-fi-and-audio/amplifiers/leema-pulse-316795/review

Reviews are one thing and reality is (often) very different. This is why I said speaker matching is essential, same as most brands, hence my reference to the DacMagic.

The buttons and knobs have a fabulous feel to them. In real terms, and with the right speakers, it's as good as it gets at the money.