Finding the sweet spot.......

[admin_exported]

It seems it's not necessarily the size that matters, it's how you use them.

So you've set the scene, made sure all your equipment's in good working order and tried to create an ambience.

What is the key to achieving the most improvement in pleasure from your equipment without paying to have your equipment upgraded?

Seriously, is there an optimal formula to aim for to get the most from your system in your listening space?

Speaker distance from walls?

Speaker distance from each other?

Toe in or not toe in?

Room size?

Floor coverings?

Wall coverings?

Listening position?

Furnishings/furniture placement?

I would be grateful for any insights please, although if I find out my approach and performance is far from optimal I may regret asking as I'm not sure how much I could change!

 

[Frank Harvey]

I don't think there are many hard and fast rules here, as all rooms are different, so they'd all need to be looked at on an individual basis. But, if I had to make some recommendations....

Distance between the speaker and the back wall is room dependent. Manufacturer's guides can only be used as just that - a guide. Your findings might totally contradict any guesswork by manufacturer/dealer/friend who knows a lot about these things.

Distance from side walls should be at least half a metre, ideally, as you don't want too much HF reflection. The more free width the speakers have, the wider the soundstage will seem.

Distance apart can be looked at. Ideally, an equilateral triangle with you and the speakers. Some speakers may not be too hot on creating a solid central image, so you could make that triangle a little more isosceles (you further away than the distance between the two speakers). This can help bring the two speakers into focus and help them produce a single image, rather than sounding like a speaker on the left and a speaker on the right.

Toe in will vary. Some speakers like PMC's and Spendors don't need much, but other speakers benefit greatly. It's a case of placing your speakers firing straight out. If they produce a central image when you're in your listening position, great. If they don't, toethem in slightly. Keep toeing them inwards until you get a central image. Toeing them too far inwards will lose you soundstage width.

As for wall and floor coverings, you don't want a totally dead room. Then again, you don't want a living room that's so reflective it sounds like a toilet. A little bit of 'liveness' is a good thing - its room filling.

Your listening position should be central and equidistant to the two speakers. Do experiment with height. Some speakers produce quite a different sound based on your seating height. Ideally your ears should be the same height as the HF unit, and being a little above or a little below that point can have quite strong results with some speakers.

Ideally, the more symmetrical your room, speaker placement, and furniture placement is, the better.

One thing I'll add. Keeping in mind the ideal height in relation to the HF units of your speakers, tilt your speakers back a little by having the front spikes a little longer - not much - maybe a millimetre or two. This can increase the soundstage height from your listening position.

As I say, many aspects can be room dependent, so would need looking at on an individual basis.

 

[lindsayt]

Speaker distance from walls? Depends on the speakers. Some like to be right against the wall. Some are designed to be 2 inches from the corners. Some are best a few feet from the walls.

Speaker distance from each other? This will depend upon your room and listening distance. I mainly listen to music from 4 piece rock and pop bands so I like to have my speakers about the same width as a pub stage to create the impression that I've got 4 life-sized musicians at the other end of my room.

Toe in or not toe in? Depends on the speakers. They will tend to sound brighter with the tweeters facing directly at you. Adjust to give the tonal balance that you like best averaged over a range of recordings. Also, try them with the imaginary line from the speakers crossing in front of you and behind you.

Room size? I prefer bigger rooms. For fitting in proper sized speakers without bumping into them all the time. Also good to have large rooms for getting turntables well away from the speakers. Sadly too many UK listening rooms are too small and real estate upgrades can be hugely expensive - but a good investment in the long term.

Floor coverings? Carpets or rugs are good for helping to reduce room echoes.

Wall coverings? If your room is well furnished or cluttered there's probably no need for any special wall coverings or room treatments. If you play at high volumes a bit of glued on felt or blu-tak behind picture frames can stop them rattling.

Listening position? Midway between the speakers for more balanced stereo. Distance depends on speakers. Some are designed to be nearfield monitors. Most aren't. I like to be good distance away but not right next to the back wall. Also you want a clear line of sight between you and your speakers.

Furnishings/furniture placement? Lots of furniture including shelves of records or CD's are good for reducing echoes and for having plenty of music to hand. Comfy sofas or chairs for relaxing in.

Sound leakage to neighbours is important too. No good if you have to listen at doormouse volumes all the time.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Seriously, is there an optimal formula to aim for to get the most from your system in your listening space?

speakers produce waves (doh). waves behave in predictable manner so we can try to counteract any nastiness bad placement can introduce. in a nutshell; you don't want any resonances/ standing waves occurring in your room, as they make some frequencies sound louder and other frequencies disappear (this plagues mainly lower register). and you don't need any early reflections, as those destroy imaging and reveal positioning of the speakers - you can say "bye, bye" for stereo illusion. unfortunately cone&dome speakers are notorious for producing a lot of early reflections due to awful dispersion pattern.

now, let's get to the point. .speaker placement. if you have more or less "typical" room you could use George Cardas's speaker placement formula. it's aimed to reduce resonances as much as possible.

alternatively, if you have an odd room type you can use the WASP method.

acoustic room treatment. we want to reduce unwanted early reflections. other reflections are even welcome. they create ambience. the places of interest are walls next to your speakers, ceiling and floor and wall behind you, if you sit close to rear wall. that's where you put sound absorbers. for more info go here.

hope that helps

 

[Anonymous]

The Cardas diagram given above can be very helpful. Be sure to click on "for those who must know more", there are many more diagrams to be found.

I can only give you my experiences:

- distance from speaker to rear wall depends on the speaker. As for side walls: avoid primary reflections. Use/imagine a mirror on your side walls. If you can see the speaker in the mirror, do something about it (no, closing your eyes is not enough). A cabinet, curtain, or dense plant can help.

- Likewise, if you have a hard floor, place a rug between your listening position and the speakers.

- speaker toe-in depends on the speaker, but also the room. Reducing toe-in in a reflective room can lessen harshness of high frequencies.

- general advice is to form an equilateral triangle between the listening position and your speakers, but I prefer to have the speakers a little bit closer to each other than to me.

- don't sit too close to the back wall.

- room size doesn't really matter as long as it's not square. My study is a square room, and in that room my speakers are not along the wall. I've drawn a line from the doorpost to the far corner, and placed my speakers along that line.

- As luck would have it, my speakers are in front of a curved cabinet. This reduces the risk of standing waves canceling out certain frequencies. You can achieve the same thing with bookcases, if the backs of the books do not line up with eachother.

 

[plastic penguin]

I've found the 'sweet spot' but dunno whether I've found the 'THE SWEET SPOT'.

 

[Anonymous]

I've found the 'sweet spot' but dunno whether I've found the 'THE SWEET SPOT'.

Well, I've found THE SWEETS POT at least.

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you all very much for these replies guys, appreciate you taking the time to give so much advice.

From initial read I don't think I'm far out.

Room is rectangular (approx 7m long by 4m wide) with system set up centrally against the 7m wall.

Speakers are approx 2m in from the side walls and about 1 foot in from rear walls. Next to speakers between the speakers and side walls are very large house plants with a TV set up beyond the plant on one side and a corner unit between the speaker and the side wall on the other.

Distance between speakers is approx 7 feet with listening position central to them but 10 feet away (sofa backs onto internal side wall on opposite side of room but layout doesn't allow me to more it closer).

Speakers are currently toed in slightly but they are Rega RS3s with a side firing unit facing away from each other so am playing with this to see if better toed in or not and whether the side firing units facing inwards or outwards is better. Taking my time on this.

Room is carpeted and no pictures on the walls (loved the picture rattling comment Lindsay - used to make entire windows shake when at Uni but have to be considerate good boy now).

Space between speakers and listening position is completely clear apart from a rug on the floor.

Neighbour's lounge adjoins mine on the wall my system is set up on but she is elderly and when my girlfriend spoke with her and mentioned whether she could hear the music she was lovely and said not at all, is hard of hearing and plays a radio or TV pretty much all the time anyway. We told her to please let us know if ever disturbs her. Bless her!

Sofa comfy. Think just a drink is required now.

Seems all is pretty good?

Will have a look at the links you recommended.

Thanks again

 

[SteveR750]

It seems it's not necessarily the size that matters, it's how you use them.

So you've set the scene, made sure all your equipment's in good working order and tried to create an ambience.

What is the key to achieving the most improvement in pleasure from your equipment

I would be grateful for any insights please, although if I find out my approach and performance is far from optimal I may regret asking as I'm not sure how much I could change!

I only read this far.

Have you tried a woman? They are mostly bit perfect, but can be a bit lossy at times, but with a huge dynamic range. Mind you, it's quite a high noise floor so you might want to use bungs, some people swear by filling up thir ports with them. Might restrict your bottom end, and maybe at the expense of a ragged and wild top end.

Candles make a great introduction.

 

[Anonymous]

:rofl:

It was very tongue in cheek.

Actually I did have one until she read this post. She's very lossy now - she left me saying she's going to find a man whose idea of Hi-Fi is an FM radio and who will lavish this amount of detail on her instead

If I try again, what is the optimal position for placement of the candles?

 

[SteveR750]

:rofl:

It was very tongue in cheek.

Actually I did have one until she read this post. She's very lossy now - she left me saying she's going to find a man whose idea of Hi-Fi is an FM radio and who will lavish this amount of detail on her instead

If I try again, what is the optimal position for placement of the candles?

Wahey, nothing like a bit of compression!

Where they can be seen

 

[Anonymous]

:rofl:

It was very tongue in cheek.

Actually I did have one until she read this post. She's very lossy now - she left me saying she's going to find a man whose idea of Hi-Fi is an FM radio and who will lavish this amount of detail on her instead

If I try again, what is the optimal position for placement of the candles?

Wahey, nothing like a bit of compression!

Where they can be seen

:rofl:

Don't - it could start off an argument on whether it makes a difference what size the candles are and the benefits that come from large sizes even though they fill up a lot of space!

 

[shooter]

:rofl:

It was very tongue in cheek.

Actually I did have one until she read this post. She's very lossy now - she left me saying she's going to find a man whose idea of Hi-Fi is an FM radio and who will lavish this amount of detail on her instead

If I try again, what is the optimal position for placement of the candles?

Wahey, nothing like a bit of compression!

Where they can be seen

:rofl:

Don't - it could start off an argument on whether it makes a difference what size the candles are and the benefits that come from large sizes even though they fill up a lot of space!

Agreed, but if your a fully fledged anal[y] retentive audiophile it would be down to wick type/burn time and wax type *phacepalm*

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not convinced by the argument that longer burn time automatically means better quality, that's just industry beeswax! What really matters is the quality of the production.

 

[Anonymous]

Finding the sweet spot......

I promised her I know how to find the sweet spot now and my girlfriend's come back to me to find out if I'm lying again.

Thanks for all your advice on positions, a bit of tweaking around within the constraints I have to work with and we both agree it's definitely even better now, having a bluudy great session.