Faulty DACMagic - What would you expect?

[BluePotato]

So, (some of you may already be aware) I bought an ex-display original DacMagic back in March. Finally finished piecing together a system a week or so ago to find the DM faulty with a resonance coming from the left channel. It's gone back to CA via Richer Sounds. The diagnosis is unrepariable with richer sounds giving me two options:

1) full refund

2) replacement for equivalent value DAC (I paid approx £170)

The issue for me here is the CA DAC range has moved on now and there isn't a direct replacement. I bought the original DM as the new DM 100 didn't look like it was as good as the original and the DM Plus is quite a bit more expensive (retail £350) so I'm now left either accepting a DAC which to my mind isn't as good as what I'm losing (something I won't accept) or shelling out more. Richer Sounds have agreed to lend me a DM Plus and an ARCAM R DAC for a couple of weeks to compare side by side. WHF don't seem massive fans of the DM Plus but other reviews sound spot on and I'm learning fast a weak review could just be their specific set up - might be class for me.

In my dreamie little, land considering I are within 1 years ownership should it not be CA's responsibility to replace with a DAC at least as good as what I'm losing? i.e. give me a DM Plus (not my fault they don't have a like for like replacement)? Interested if anyone know what my rights are in this situation where a like for like comparison isn't available.

Richer Sounds have suggested they will do me a 'deal' on a DMPlus or give me the best price they can on an R DAC. Is that as much as I can reasonably expect?

 

[the record spot]

Unfortunately, your contract is with the retailer, in this case Richer Sounds, so they've offered you a full refund or goods to the equivalent value of your purchase.

Have to say, if you bought it in March and only now put your system together, some retailers wouldn't have offered you a full refund (you're not entitled to one after 28 days from memory, but a repair) so you've come out of it with your money back at best. In other words, you have some responsibility in this too, so yes, I think you got a good deal. Gift horses and mouths and all that.

If it was me I'd take the money back, or if you wanted to lay a credit against the DM+ and pay the difference when you have it, Richers might be okay with that. Have to say I think they've gone above and beyond here.

 

[Andy Clough]

It's true we prefer the Arcam rDAC to the DacMagic Plus, although the latter still got 4 stars. I can understand your frustration at having to lose the original (faulty) DacMagic but Richer Sounds' offer seems a reasonable one to me. You could take the full refund and see if anyone else has a DacMagic left in stock.

 

[Crocodile]

Seems odd to me that CA can't repair. Maybe try contacting them directly to verify.

As to a replacement, you'r contract is with RS so it's not down to CA to replace. If RS can't replace as it's discontinued, then a full refund is about all you can expect. Although that should be plenty to buy a replacement from Ebay & probably have some change as well. You could also look at a used Bereford's Caiman.

 

[shafesk]

So, (some of you may already be aware) I bought an ex-display original DacMagic back in March. Finally finished piecing together a system a week or so ago to find the DM faulty with a resonance coming from the left channel. It's gone back to CA via Richer Sounds. The diagnosis is unrepariable with richer sounds giving me two options:

1) full refund

2) replacement for equivalent value DAC (I paid approx £170)

The issue for me here is the CA DAC range has moved on now and there isn't a direct replacement. I bought the original DM as the new DM 100 didn't look like it was as good as the original and the DM Plus is quite a bit more expensive (retail £350) so I'm now left either accepting a DAC which to my mind isn't as good as what I'm losing (something I won't accept) or shelling out more. Richer Sounds have agreed to lend me a DM Plus and an ARCAM R DAC for a couple of weeks to compare side by side. WHF don't seem massive fans of the DM Plus but other reviews sound spot on and I'm learning fast a weak review could just be their specific set up - might be class for me.

In my dreamie little, land considering I are within 1 years ownership should it not be CA's responsibility to replace with a DAC at least as good as what I'm losing? i.e. give me a DM Plus (not my fault they don't have a like for like replacement)? Interested if anyone know what my rights are in this situation where a like for like comparison isn't available.

Richer Sounds have suggested they will do me a 'deal' on a DMPlus or give me the best price they can on an R DAC. Is that as much as I can reasonably expect?

Hey Bluepotato, I don't think its fair to expect CA to give you the dm+ since it costs a bit more than the original dac. I think you should audition all 3 dacs if they give it to you for a home trial. WHF always say that a 4 star product may be ideal in some circumstances, I wouldn't be put off by a 4 star review as you can always go wrong even with 5 star products. After careful audition I would then go for the one you most like. Even if you go for the Arcam, it won't cost you much extra. I think you are lucky to have your dac gone wrong just in time for the replacement to be honest, I would be all over that offer.

 

[Crocodile]

Dupe.

 

[shafesk]

Have to say, if you bought it in March and only now put your system together, some retailers wouldn't have offered you a full refund (you're not entitled to one after 28 days from memory, but a repair) so you've come out of it with your money back at best. In other words, you have some responsibility in this too, so yes, I think you got a good deal. Gift horses and mouths and all that.

If it was me I'd take the money back, or if you wanted to lay a credit against the DM+ and pay the difference when you have it, Richers might be okay with that. Have to say I think they've gone above and beyond here.

+1, I always get good service from RS

 

[def lugs]

In my dreamie little, land considering I are within 1 years ownership should it not be CA's responsibility to replace with a DAC at least as good as what I'm losing?

Richer Sounds have suggested they will do me a 'deal' on a DMPlus or give me the best price they can on an R DAC. Is that as much as I can reasonably expect?

If I were you I would read up on the citizens advice website to find out what you are entitled. I always thought that as you purchased the goods from a retailer your contract lies with them not the manufacturer. They seem to be acting acordingly with an offer of a full refund and a discount on another unit.

 

[the record spot]

I always get good service from RS

I aim to please!

Oh, you mean Richer Sounds.....

 

[BluePotato]

Thanks for the comments, bit confused. I've owned the DAC for approx 3 months, come to use it and it's broken. No question the service from Richer Sounds has been spot on. They sent the DM to CA for assessment and response from CA is that the DM is not repairable. Why do I have a responsibility here? What would you expect if something is deemed unrepairable within first year?

I assumed (wrongly it seems) that in first year of ownership it was a manufacturer guarantee? i.e. Cambridge Audio were responsible in first year, not RS.

If it's RS responsibility then yep they have been spot on. Looks like I will be shelling out at least an extra £100 which I didn't really want to do but sounds like the DAC I get will be a step up from the original DM.

I thought in first year my contract would have bee

 

[the record spot]

Your contract is with the dealer. In this case Richer Sounds. After 28 days, you are entitled to a repair of the item not a replacement of the goods with those of a higher value. The Sale of Goods Act states that up to 28 days you are entitled to a full refund if the goods are faulty. So, Richer Sounds have offered you a full refund, based on the original item being unrepairable, or another DAC of the same value, or a discount on the DM+. All three are fair options.

 

[Crocodile]

Looks like I will be shelling out at least an extra £100 which I didn't really want to do

Or as I said, buy used & pay less.

Although If CA really can't repair a product that was only replaced around 6 months ago, then I'd have severe reservations about buying anything else from them. I wonder what happens when a £700 Stream Magic 6 fails outside of warranty?

 

[Shanka]

I think that they have offered the two to demo at home for a few weeks is a result, see which you prefer in your own environment and system.

I have a dacmagic and if it died I would be delighted with that offer, good luck .

How are you liking your Spendors now you have had them a few weeks ?

 

[plastic penguin]

Thanks for the comments, bit confused. I've owned the DAC for approx 3 months, come to use it and it's broken. No question the service from Richer Sounds has been spot on. They sent the DM to CA for assessment and response from CA is that the DM is not repairable. Why do I have a responsibility here? What would you expect if something is deemed unrepairable within first year?

I assumed (wrongly it seems) that in first year of ownership it was a manufacturer guarantee? i.e. Cambridge Audio were responsible in first year, not RS.

If it's RS responsibility then yep they have been spot on. Looks like I will be shelling out at least an extra £100 which I didn't really want to do but sounds like the DAC I get will be a step up from the original DM.

I thought in first year my contract would have bee

Ask for a refund and go for this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Arcam-rDAC-Digital-to-Analogue-Converter-/120945366750?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item1c28e7d6de

 

[Anonymous]

A full refund is a good response from RS. They're a business, from their perspective they supplied an item, which you've had for a while ( was it 3 months? ), they can't provide a direct replacement so have offered you the original purchase price.

It's not their fault that the item is faulty or there is no direct replacement, it would be unreasonable for them to provide a £350 item for £170.

Some manufacturers will supply replacements or newer equivalent, might be worth talking to the manufacturers customer services department? A nicely written letter sometimes dies the trick.

 

[bigboss]

Thanks for the comments, bit confused. I've owned the DAC for approx 3 months, come to use it and it's broken. No question the service from Richer Sounds has been spot on. They sent the DM to CA for assessment and response from CA is that the DM is not repairable. Why do I have a responsibility here? What would you expect if something is deemed unrepairable within first year?

I assumed (wrongly it seems) that in first year of ownership it was a manufacturer guarantee? i.e. Cambridge Audio were responsible in first year, not RS.

If it's RS responsibility then yep they have been spot on. Looks like I will be shelling out at least an extra £100 which I didn't really want to do but sounds like the DAC I get will be a step up from the original DM.

I thought in first year my contract would have bee

Don't forget that your purchase was an ex-demo product & not brand new. You cannot expect them to replace with a brand new product, can you? I would agree with others' comments here. Richer Sounds have been more than fair on this issue.

 

[shafesk]

I always get good service from RS

I actually meant you, but Richer Sounds isn't too bad either

I aim to please!

Oh, you mean Richer Sounds.....

 

[CambridgeAudioCare]

Although If CA really can't repair a product that was only replaced around 6 months ago, then I'd have severe reservations about buying anything else from them. I wonder what happens when a £700 Stream Magic 6 fails outside of warranty?

Hello there.

Without seeing the unit it is hard to comment exactly on why this decision was made but it is worth pointing out two things;

In the UK, the overwhelming majority of service on Cambridge Audio products is carried out by the in-house service department of Richer Sounds. Their engineers work closely with us and will involve us in the event of unusual situations but generally products do not come to us. The decision on what to repair is theirs as the distributor.

This decision process also means that often when a product is described as "not repairable", it can mean that it is not possible to repair the product for a sum significantly less than the material value of the product itself. The full remit of parts exist for the DacMagic but depending on the nature of the fault, it may be that with labour costs taken into account as well, the case for repairing the unit is not a logical one. In the case of the Stream Magic 6, I would expect the calculations would be significantly different.

Regards

Ed Selley

Cambridge Audio customer care.

 

[bigblue235]

After 28 days, you are entitled to a repair of the item not a replacement of the goods with those of a higher value. The Sale of Goods Act states that up to 28 days you are entitled to a full refund if the goods are faulty.

It doesn't. That's just a common internet myth, I'm afraid

In the initial period of acceptance of the goods, if an item does not meet the conditions applicable to the contract of sale you have the right to reject. This cancels the contract so a refund is due. Outwith this period the remedies offered don't change. The consumer can always choose between a repair, replacement or refund (full or partial). If the chosen remedy is disproportionately expensive, the retailer can choose a different one. The 28 days thing is just a common sense policy applied by some retailers, there is no reference to this period in the relevant legislation. Many retailers will argue that you have accepted the goods in a period far shorter than 28 days.

With regard to the OP, the retailer have been more than fair. A full refund and a discount on a better item? Good service, IMO. Bite their hand off!

 

[BluePotato]

Yep - I've said earlier, been impressed with RS throughout, they have been helpful and if the warranty is with the Retail I agree with the vast majority of what is being said here. Just unfortunate I guess.

Shanka - yep, Spendors sounding fantastic now. Think initial doubts were more likely because of an unknown worn in DacMagic 100 which I've been borrowing whilst my DAC being assessed and the Leema being new too. Whole thing seems to be gelling more now.

BigBoss - ex-demo comes with the same warranty as new - I don't 'expect' new, I'd like my DACMagic repairing really but as it's 'unrepairable' within 3 months of ownership (and from first use) and DacMagic's are no longer available to buy then yeah, rightly or wrongly I'd expect a replacement of some sort and not of a lesser quality - unfortunately it doesn't look like this exists. Agree RS are being fair - My original post was when I thought CA would be responsible for resolving the issue.

PP - yep I've had a watch on that, unfortunately it expires before I'll get the chance to road test the Arcam and the DM Plus. Looks like It will be one of these two I'll go for. Want to test them first but will probably then buy new as would be a bit harsh to then take a refund and go buy off E-Bay. The DM 100 I've been lent is starting to warm up now but definitely feel there is more to come from the Spendors and Leema combination.

OK - so, it was a question, it's been answered. Thanks all. No issue with RS, no issue with Cambridge Audio - just a query as to how things work when kit is faulty. Some good has come from this, I get to home demo some new kit and it sounds like by both the DM+ and the Arcam will give my system an extra kick to squeeze some more out of the Spendors - looking forward to it. :cheers:

 

[plastic penguin]

Couple of points: The rDac is a good price and you could sell without making a huge loss. I honestly feel you won't get the best from the Leema/Spendors unless you look at something in the region of Rega or Audiolab. But it is all about budget, so can understand why you've short-listed the DM and Arcam.

My upgrade will be Rega Dac or Saturn CDP. Rega IMHO is a fabulous match. I'm hamstrung by RS6s, but that's a different story.

 

[BluePotato]

Couple of points: The rDac is a good price and you could sell without making a huge loss. I honestly feel you won't get the best from the Leema/Spendors unless you look at something in the region of Rega or Audiolab. But it is all about budget, so can understand why you've short-listed the DM and Arcam.

My upgrade will be Rega Dac or Saturn CDP. Rega IMHO is a fabulous match. I'm hamstrung by RS6s, but that's a different story.

Stop it! You keep costing me money! Seriously - you think it's a big jump from an Arcam or a DM+ to the Rega/M-DAC? Speakers cost more than was originally anticipating so a DAC upgrade wasn't on the card until these latest events. Read great things about the M-DAC. Point taken re the Arcam although I notice it's just finished! Never mind - will keep my eye out.

 

[plastic penguin]

Couple of points: The rDac is a good price and you could sell without making a huge loss. I honestly feel you won't get the best from the Leema/Spendors unless you look at something in the region of Rega or Audiolab. But it is all about budget, so can understand why you've short-listed the DM and Arcam.

My upgrade will be Rega Dac or Saturn CDP. Rega IMHO is a fabulous match. I'm hamstrung by RS6s, but that's a different story.

Stop it! You keep costing me money! Seriously - you think it's a big jump from an Arcam or a DM+ to the Rega/M-DAC? Speakers cost more than was originally anticipating so a DAC upgrade wasn't on the card until these latest events. Read great things about the M-DAC. Point taken re the Arcam although I notice it's just finished! Never mind - will keep my eye out.

Based on my recent home dem of the Rega Apollo, I'd deffo say yes. I was very impressed in the main, but the speakers were certainly slightly scarring the overall presentation; in terms of quality, the speakers hit the metaphorical wall with the Rega/Leema. This suggests to me that with a quality speaker - your Spendors for instance - the Leema will sing like an avery full of chirping birds.

Ahem... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/REGA-DAC-DIGITAL-TO-ANALOGUE-CONVERTER-/261062324318?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item3cc886f05e

However, it's very commendable you won't commit until you've tested. I'm exactly like that, just wish some others would do the same.

 

[Big Nads and Woofer]

I agree with others that the Rdac is a bigger step in quality, but then your paying more for it!
Personally I'd take a full refund and look for a deal on the second hand websites like Gumtree and Ebay etc..

 

[BluePotato]

I've now got both the ARCAM and the DM+ on loan from RS. They are both new so need a warm in. Based on first impressions though the ARCAM is a step up from the 'run-in' DM 100 and the new DM plus. Vocals and instruments sound instantly more realistic which bodes well for when the product has run in.

Will be interesting to see how they develop over the next 2 weeks.

Whilst playing the music through one DAC I generally have the other switched on - does that go some way to 'running in' a DAC or does it need to be processing a signal?