Expensive cable vs cheap cable

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Me and my brother have been aurguing over weather cable can better than another provided that they are shielded and well connected.

What i mean to say is can a cable bring dynamics detail tonal balance agilty ect over another. My brother does not think so.

I have 5 star cable's and they are better than the cheap cable's. But my brother thinks humans are hearing things..

Spouting a friend who studied physics and electrons. That there is noway to gain extra detail from good cables. Its not the way electrons work!

Which annoys me.

What science can be attributed to to cableing ability to bring great sound over another.

- By the way i being made a custom iChord, with a 6.35mm jack 😉
 
DomRok: Spouting a friend who studied physics and electrons. That there is noway to gain extra detail from good cables. Its not the way electrons work!

High quality cables can't gain quality or detail, but they can lose less than cheaply made/poor ones
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And of course, they add their own characterisics to the presentation.
 
DomRok:
Me and my brother have been aurguing over weather cable can better than another provided that they are shielded and well connected.

What i mean to say is can a cable bring dynamics detail tonal balance agilty ect over another. My brother does not think so.

I have 5 star cable's and they are better than the cheap cable's. But my brother thinks humans are hearing things..

Spouting a friend who studied physics and electrons. That there is noway to gain extra detail from good cables. Its not the way electrons work!

Which annoys me.

What science can be attributed to to cableing ability to bring great sound over another.

- By the way i being made a custom iChord, with a 6.35mm jack 😉

On these forums you will get posts that categorically claim that cables make a difference and those that claim they don't. Neither are likely to make you or your brother change your mind. Fortunately there is a simple solution. If you claim you can hear a difference and your brother and your friend don't believe you, you must prove it to them. Let them put a blindfold on you and have them randomly swap your expensive cable with a cheap one, not letting you know which one you are listening to - then prove to them that you can tell them apart with your ears alone. Nevermind the underlying science - first principle is to work out whether the audible difference is there or not. Post your results here, and good luck.
 
DomRok:
Me and my brother have been aurguing over weather cable can better than another provided that they are shielded and well connected.

What i mean to say is can a cable bring dynamics detail tonal balance agilty ect over another. My brother does not think so.

I have 5 star cable's and they are better than the cheap cable's. But my brother thinks humans are hearing things..

Spouting a friend who studied physics and electrons. That there is noway to gain extra detail from good cables. Its not the way electrons work!

Which annoys me.

What science can be attributed to to cableing ability to bring great sound over another.

- By the way i being made a custom iChord, with a 6.35mm jack 😉

There's an extremely good article knocking about in cyberspace which describes cable differences as one of the ten great lies of audio (there's also a separate section for power cords as well). There's also an article on the web written by Roger Russell, which discusses cables.

Out of interest, why would a length of speaker cable make a difference? Look at the chain - the electricity goes from the gold plated brass connectors at the back of the amp. Then to the big brass banana plugs on your speaker cables, also gold plated. If you look at Roger Russell's article, you will see that copper wire has to be of a certain minimum thickness depending on the distance between speaker and amp. The copper wire then goes into another banana connector, also gold plated. Note that unless your copper has been alloyed in some way, it is an element, therefore why would copper in different cables sound different? The speaker has big brass connectors, also gold plated. From there, the signal goes into the speakers. Before coming out as sound, it travels along copper wire in your speakers. There may be literally hundereds of feet wrapped around a magnet.

So, why does your few feet of copper make a difference? And if there genuinely is a difference in sound, why can't that be attributed to any of the brass bits, the gold plating or the copper wire in the speakers?

There has never been a double blind test where anyone has called cables correctly. Not even close.

Even the Great Randi will give you a $1m if you can correctly identify the differences between cables under lab conditions. Given the certainty that people have on here regarding cable differences, you would think that people would be beating a path to his door to take the tests. But so far, no-one has taken the test, and those he has invited, who charge absurd money for bits of copper, have declined. I wonder why?

The myth of cable differences give audiophiles a bad name.
 
Cable Lover:DomRok:
Me and my brother have been aurguing over weather cable can better than another provided that they are shielded and well connected.

What i mean to say is can a cable bring dynamics detail tonal balance agilty ect over another. My brother does not think so.

I have 5 star cable's and they are better than the cheap cable's. But my brother thinks humans are hearing things..

Spouting a friend who studied physics and electrons. That there is noway to gain extra detail from good cables. Its not the way electrons work!

Which annoys me.

What science can be attributed to to cableing ability to bring great sound over another.

- By the way i being made a custom iChord, with a 6.35mm jack 😉

There's an extremely good article knocking about in cyberspace which describes cable differences as one of the ten great lies of audio (there's also a separate section for power cords as well). There's also an article on the web written by Roger Russell, which discusses cables.

Out of interest, why would a length of speaker cable make a difference? Look at the chain - the electricity goes from the gold plated brass connectors at the back of the amp. Then to the big brass banana plugs on your speaker cables, also gold plated. If you look at Roger Russell's article, you will see that copper wire has to be of a certain minimum thickness depending on the distance between speaker and amp. The copper wire then goes into another banana connector, also gold plated. Note that unless your copper has been alloyed in some way, it is an element, therefore why would copper in different cables sound different? The speaker has big brass connectors, also gold plated. From there, the signal goes into the speakers. Before coming out as sound, it travels along copper wire in your speakers. There may be literally hundereds of feet wrapped around a magnet.

So, why does your few feet of copper make a difference? And if there genuinely is a difference in sound, why can't that be attributed to any of the brass bits, the gold plating or the copper wire in the speakers?

There has never been a double blind test where anyone has called cables correctly. Not even close.

Even the Great Randi will give you a $1m if you can correctly identify the differences between cables under lab conditions. Given the certainty that people have on here regarding cable differences, you would think that people would be beating a path to his door to take the tests. But so far, no-one has taken the test, and those he has invited, who charge absurd money for bits of copper, have declined. I wonder why?

The myth of cable differences give audiophiles a bad name.

I couldn't agree less. Cables sound significantly different.
 
Having the name 'Cable lover' after what has been said is a contradicition in itself.
 
Paulthefilmfan:Having the name 'Cable lover' after what has been said is a contradicition in itself.

Cable Lover's sole purpose in life is to only comment negatively on cables. That's what he does.
 
So surely Joelsim can go and do the test with Randi? Just think what you could do with $1m? Oh wait....
 
I do agree with the logical approach in what has been said, but having used many cables myself i know my ears tell me otherwise which is what should count at the end of the day. Not a load of statistics.
 
Cable Lover:So surely Joelsim can go and do the test with Randi? Just think what you could do with $1m? Oh wait....

I don't really want to do anything with Randi, especially as I've witnessed large differences in sound simply by swapping cables at home. To me it doesn't matter if these were blind or not as the differences have been substantial between various cables. Like everything some are good and some not so good, it's not just about the cost.

You could look at the reviews section above for blind listening test results though.
 
For me personally superstition plays a part as well:

I purchased Chord cables (doesn't matter what make really) and am happy with them, so no-one will convince me to buy another cable - whether cheaper or costlier.
 
Of course you can make cables that deliberately colour the sound if you try hard enough and of course poor quality cable can degrade the sound. Beyond that you pays your money and takes your choice.

I do think some people get a bit suckered by the kings new clothes sometimes but that's just IMHO.
 
I have stated before that I bought a box full of used speaker cables off ebay and tested them all on my system

There are definately differences in all of them, but they are not huge

BTW, I failed the test to determine the difference between 196kpb and 320kbp (think those are the file sizes) ... I could not hear a difference and guessed the wrong one ... so my ears are not that good

with the speaker cables, I never guessed and as said, there are definate differences which both my wife and I heard playing the same tracks at the same volume setting ... biggest change was on the volume (some sounded louder that others), aswell as the bass
 
JoelSim:
Cable Lover:So surely Joelsim can go and do the test with Randi? Just think what you could do with $1m? Oh wait....

I don't really want to do anything with Randi, especially as I've witnessed large differences in sound simply by swapping cables at home. To me it doesn't matter if these were blind or not as the differences have been substantial between various cables. Like everything some are good and some not so good, it's not just about the cost.

You could look at the reviews section above for blind listening test results though.

I agree with JoelSim. Cables DO make a difference. Differences between cables can sometimes be subtle while in other cases, substantial.

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I also agree. I had a system that was just a little bit too bright and toned it down with a careful choice of cable.

Every link in the hi fi chain can impact on sound. The earlier post about speakers having wire in them misses the point - most speaker makers choose that cable carefully as well...
 
if cables make no diferance why do so many people coment on how good my tv picture looks compared to there own.i have a prety average panasonic tv and your standered sky hd box like many people would have.

but on a good number of times guests will say wow what a great picture mine dosent look that good.

the only diferance is thay are using out the box cables and i have mains filters sheilded iecs and upgraded hdmis.

also ive done sneaky upgrades on speaker cable when the other half is out thinking she will never no but later that day she has come home and comented that it sounds diferant,and that must be the best blind test of them all
 
All I can say is that I'm very glad that I long ago decided to test cables myself. Years ago I had dismissed cables as snake oil because I had read all the cable debunking articles. However, once I actually started tested them myself the difference was blatant and not subtle or vague. An obvious change to the sound occurred with different cables. If I'm delusional, then I'm ok with it. To my ears, the cables make my system better.

With that said, I still limit my cable purchases to products I think are reasonably priced. While I think cables make a valuable difference, I'm convinced I can get great performance without buying the very high priced cables.
 
dim_span:

BTW, I failed the test to determine the difference between 196kpb and 320kbp (think those are the file sizes) ... I could not hear a difference and guessed the wrong one ... so my ears are not that good

i did a side buy side using my ps3 (320)and my laptop (apple lossless)when trying to decide on getting my apple tv both digital into my dac magic playing the same trac and switching between sources ,and the lossless was better it was clearer and louder but it wasnt masive but defanatly there.

i went for the upgrade in the end as i had all my music saved in i tunes anyway and it ment i could use my harmony one as the remote instead of the ps3 remote and the harmony

one thing i did find when doing the side by side is the ps3 played music faster than the laptop.if you started boath tracs at the same time, say a 5 minute trac the ps3 would finish the song 6 to 10 secounds quicker than the laptop. weird
 
when i was buying my first plasma last march , the salesman tried harder to sell me a e100 monster hdmi cable than he did the tv , why was that ?? probably because the store gets them for e20 , and there was a nice little commission in it for him , i dont know if there is much of a difference , if any , between the various cables , but it seems obvious to me that many people are milking money from those foolish enough to spend way too much money on them , even if some are very slightly better ....
 
maxflinn:when i was buying my first plasma last march , the salesman tried harder to sell me a e100 monster hdmi cable than he did the tv , why was that ?? probably because the store gets them for e20 , and there was a nice little commission in it for him , i dont know if there is much of a difference , if any , between the various cables , but it seems obvious to me that many people are milking money from those foolish enough to spend way too much money on them , even if some are very slightly better ....

to be honist i wouldnt go near any of them monster hdmis thay do seem very over priced in certan shops you go into i would guss that most of them are not much better than my purple qed that if you look around you can find them for about £25 im sure you can get better than my qeds but for the money and reviews thay seemed in keeping with my system(budgetish)so for my money i got a well made ,named brand cable and most important i saw a cleaner image than the free give aways.
 
nodnarb4444:
maxflinn:when i was buying my first plasma last march , the salesman tried harder to sell me a e100 monster hdmi cable than he did the tv , why was that ?? probably because the store gets them for e20 , and there was a nice little commission in it for him , i dont know if there is much of a difference , if any , between the various cables , but it seems obvious to me that many people are milking money from those foolish enough to spend way too much money on them , even if some are very slightly better ....

to be honist i wouldnt go near any of them monster hdmis thay do seem very over priced in certan shops you go into i would guss that most of them are not much better than my purple qed that if you look around you can find them for about £25 im sure you can get better than my qeds but for the money and reviews thay seemed in keeping with my system(budgetish)so for my money i got a well made ,named brand cable and most important i saw a cleaner image than the free give aways.
just seen this thread is about hifi cables (oops) , i only have cheap freebies myself at the moment nodbarb , and am thinking about trying something a little pricier , well regarded , but i agree with you , surely £20-£30 cables should suffice , i mean , whats in them ?? copper , brass , maybe a miniscule amount of gold , i just dont see how very expensive hdmi cables could be much better whith so little being in them , they only transport data after all ....
 
maxflinn:nodnarb4444:

maxflinn:when i was buying my first plasma last march , the salesman tried harder to sell me a e100 monster hdmi cable than he did the tv , why was that ?? probably because the store gets them for e20 , and there was a nice little commission in it for him , i dont know if there is much of a difference , if any , between the various cables , but it seems obvious to me that many people are milking money from those foolish enough to spend way too much money on them , even if some are very slightly better ....

to be honist i wouldnt go near any of them monster hdmis thay do seem very over priced in certan shops you go into i would guss that most of them are not much better than my purple qed that if you look around you can find them for about £25 im sure you can get better than my qeds but for the money and reviews thay seemed in keeping with my system(budgetish)so for my money i got a well made ,named brand cable and most important i saw a cleaner image than the free give aways.

just seen this thread is about hifi cables (oops) , i only have cheap freebies myself at the moment nodbarb , and am thinking about trying something a little pricier , well regarded , but i agree with you , surely £20-£30 cables should suffice , i mean , whats in them ?? copper , brass , maybe a miniscule amount of gold , i just dont see how very expensive hdmi cables could be much better whith so little being in them , they only transport data after all ....

i do think realy expensive cables can be better but i guss you have to try and match it up to your kit,£130 mains cable on a £150 cd player probably not worth it i tryed to go with cables from companys that make very expensive cables but go to there lower priced products hopfully some of the resarch used on the higher end stuff has filtered down to there cheaper range plus thay have a reputation of high end so you should get the build qualaty.

also have a good look around cables can really very in price from shop to shop some places will give good discount on stuff thay used to use on the shop floor for display tvs/hifi.

and if you want to start upgrading try the tacima mains filter to start with £40 rrp but look on the net should be able to pick one up for about £25 probably the best pound for pound upgrade ive made completly changed my tv picture.
 
storsvante:Fortunately there is a simple solution. If you claim you can hear a difference and your brother and your friend don't believe you, you must prove it to them. Let them put a blindfold on you and have them randomly swap your expensive cable with a cheap one, not letting you know which one you are listening to - then prove to them that you can tell them apart with your ears alone. Nevermind the underlying science - first principle is to work out whether the audible difference is there or not. Post your results here, and good luck.
Good idea, but also put in a 'lie detector'. Change some electronics while your at it and mix it up a bit. If a person does not want to hear a difference then they will do there best not to find one 🙂. If they say the sound was the same in every instance and in one of those instances you changed the CD player, then there ears can't be trusted 🙂
 
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