Evaluating speakers - what to listen for

[simon59]

Having recently wanted to replace some elderly speakers I looked for some tips on what to check for when auditioning. Not much luck, so here is my starter for 10. I am sure this can be improved, while keeping it concise. You would need a variety of CDs to cover this...

Spatial

In a recording of a symphony orchestra, can you hear each desk (group of instruments) - both left to right and front to back?

Precision

In the spatial placement of musicians, is each firmly placed? Does the orchestra or band sound muddled? Does the system untangle a complex set of sounds?

Timbre

Can you hear the rasp of brass, strings and side drums? Is the smooth and silliness of e.g. a massed choir handled well?

Bass

Is the thump and punch of bass drums, timpani and organs represented?

Delicacy

How are quiet or single instruments handled? They should be crisp and clean and precise in the soundstage.

 

[lindsayt]

Whenever I audition any products, including speakers I try to sit back and relax and not listen for anything inparticular. Just let the music wash over me. Any sonic traits will make themselves apparent without me having to listen out for them, especially in an A/B demo with the volumes matched.

 

[chebby]

Having recently wanted to replace some elderly speakers I looked for some tips on what to check for when auditioning ...

Two criteria.

Do they make you think they were made just for you when you first hear them?

Do they still make you think that after a day-or-two when you home dem them?

They are the ones.

The ones that make you tear up the checklist and say to yourself "what the EDITED" and put on another disc and another and ... .... until the dealer has to lock up.

 

[Supreme]

if i was auditioning speakers I would want them simply to make me smile when the music hit. If they can do that then you've found the right speakers

 

[Vladimir]

Build quality, distortion, sound reproduction during quiet and loud passages, do they maintain integrity when played loud, grain and coloration in midrange, knock on boxes for resonance, sibilants, bass extention and depth, interaction with the room (stage, imaging etc.), do my ears hurt (I have tinnitus).

The rest is to room interaction and generally how we click together (making me smile).

 

[simon59]

I like the 'smile'. For me that comes when I relax because the speakers are hitting my objectives and then the music takes over.

 

[NJB]

The best advice that I was ever given was to take your own CDs to the demo. Pick the songs you love, the CDs that are superbly mastered, and a couple of those where the production guys were off their game. What do the new speakers sound like? Do you still love your favourites? Hear a bit more perhaps, follow the bass track a little easier, vocals clear? Does the music come together for you?

The well produced album should really sing, but they stand out from the crowd anyway. How do they cope with poorly mastered CDs, we've all got them and though we love the songs, it is only just above a warm mush of sound.

Remember, it's your choice, not the hifi shop guy who might have overstocked on a brand and see you as the way to balance his books!

 

[simon59]

And take your time. 20 minutes per pair of speakers working up the price range within your budget. (That's what my inexperienced ears took to pin down the strengths and weaknesses of each.)

 

[CnoEvil]

Truth or Beauty..... :?

 

[chebby]

Truth or Beauty..... :?

They are not mutually exclusive.

 

[CnoEvil]

Truth or Beauty..... :?

They are not mutually exclusive.

I know, but they very often are.

 

[lpv]

You should be listen to music while evaluating speakers

 

[Vladimir]

You should be listen to music while evaluating speakers

Why not test signals? :bounce:

 

[lpv]

You should be listen to music while evaluating speakers

Why not test signals? :bounce:

hell yeah >)

 

[matt49]

A lot depends on your mentality and character. Some people are analytical, others prefer a more holistic thing.

From my perspective, as a habitually and professionally analytical type, your list looks jolly good. The only things that occur to me to add right now are:

1. presence and immediacy: does the music sound as if it's in the room with you?

2. dynamics: how dramatic are the transitions from pp to ff and vice versa?

Matt

 

[matthewpiano]

http://dynaudioprofessional.com/media/21965/dynaudio-choosing-by-ear-whitepaper.pdf

Worth a read.

 

[Gazzip]

If my foot starts tapping then I know I've hit gold.

 

[davedotco]

Try and listen to the music, not the sound it makes.

All speakers sound different but only a select few at each level produce music that sounds believable. Not 'there in the room' believable but in the sense that you know that, at some point in time, some musicians actually got together and played.

I find live recordings more helpful than studio constructs, though some studio recordings, particularly some older jazz and classical pieces are properly recorded and sound remarkably 'real' on a good system.

 

[Vladimir]

If my foot starts tapping then I know I've hit gold.

So do Linn and Naim. lol Joke.

Matthew thanks for that Dynaudio White Paper link. I'm reading it. :beer:

 

[bluedroog]

How natural speakers sound is criminally underrated IMO, spoken voice is a brilliant indictor by which to measure.

Things I also always look for is timbre, I’m not even sure what determines it but for me it’s about the decay in sound passages and the delicacies of drums that really makes my hairs stand on end.

A balanced sound across the frequencies, good cross over points and timing between drivers.

A tight bass with no smear, gives the impression of clarity and timing, I would scarifies deep bass for tight bass every time and, I’ll never forget one of my first auditions when I was 13 listening o Acoustic energy AE109 playing Ocean Colour Scene, opening with the Riverboat Song and that bass guitar still hasn’t left me. They were the most refined in the treble but boy they did it for me with that fast upper bass.

I went to audition the PMC Twenty 22, I really wanted to love them and in many respects they were fantastic, the were so open and good details but they lacked two of my key requirements for my next purchase; the timbre and the balance / timing between frequencies, there almost seemed to be a delay in the bass which I put down to the transmission line interacting with the room, I must try them again in a better room.

 

[Covenanter]

Try and listen to the music, not the sound it makes.

All speakers sound different but only a select few at each level produce music that sounds believable. Not 'there in the room' believable but in the sense that you know that, at some point in time, some musicians actually got together and played.

I find live recordings more helpful than studio constructs, though some studio recordings, particularly some older jazz and classical pieces are properly recorded and sound remarkably 'real' on a good system.

I pretty much agree with this. I take recordings I know well (for example I've been using the Joan Armatrading "Armatrading" album for auditioning since the 1970s) and a wide variety of them. I find solo voice very telling and solo piano too. When I find I stop listening to the equipment and start listening to the music then I know I'm on to a good thing.

Chris

 

[davedotco]

Try and listen to the music, not the sound it makes.

All speakers sound different but only a select few at each level produce music that sounds believable. Not 'there in the room' believable but in the sense that you know that, at some point in time, some musicians actually got together and played.

I find live recordings more helpful than studio constructs, though some studio recordings, particularly some older jazz and classical pieces are properly recorded and sound remarkably 'real' on a good system.

I pretty much agree with this. I take recordings I know well (for example I've been using the Joan Armatrading "Armatrading" album for auditioning since the 1970s) and a wide variety of them. I find solo voice very telling and solo piano too. When I find I stop listening to the equipment and start listening to the music then I know I'm on to a good thing.

Chris

I have been playing a lot of '60s jazz of late, even the studio recordings are, effectively live, listen to the different 'takes' on something like Sun Ship.

Many albums from this era have been re-released with alternate takes, some billed as 'the complete sessions'. Listening to different 'takes' of the same piece allow you to focus on the music, can you hear why one found it's way onto the album where another did not?

These kind of recordings highlight the interplay between the musicians, better equipment should make this even more obvious, very telling, to me at least.

 

[Covenanter]

Try and listen to the music, not the sound it makes.

All speakers sound different but only a select few at each level produce music that sounds believable. Not 'there in the room' believable but in the sense that you know that, at some point in time, some musicians actually got together and played.

I find live recordings more helpful than studio constructs, though some studio recordings, particularly some older jazz and classical pieces are properly recorded and sound remarkably 'real' on a good system.

I pretty much agree with this. I take recordings I know well (for example I've been using the Joan Armatrading "Armatrading" album for auditioning since the 1970s) and a wide variety of them. I find solo voice very telling and solo piano too. When I find I stop listening to the equipment and start listening to the music then I know I'm on to a good thing.

Chris

I have been playing a lot of '60s jazz of late, even the studio recordings are, effectively live, listen to the different 'takes' on something like Sun Ship.

Many albums from this era have been re-released with alternate takes, some billed as 'the complete sessions'. Listening to different 'takes' of the same piece allow you to focus on the music, can you hear why one found it's way onto the album where another did not?

These kind of recordings highlight the interplay between the musicians, better equipment should make this even more obvious, very telling, to me at least.

I'm sure you are correct. Sadly "jazz" does not connect to me either intellectually or emotionally although I admire the musicianship of some "jazz" musicians. My loss but we can't all like the same things.

Chris

 

[matt49]

Try and listen to the music, not the sound it makes.

As I said earlier, this is really about the character and attitudes of the listener, i.e. where the listener sits on a spectrum between analytical and holistic. Most of the time most of us surely sit in a band towards the middle of the spectrum.

I suspect that in fact your exhortation to 'listen to the music' may not fully reflect your actual practice. You would no doubt dislike a speaker that delivered smeared or overcooked bass or one that had a smile-shaped frequency response. And I suspect that part of you would be -- analytically -- listening out for such features, whether you acknowledge it or not.

Listening requires attending, and attention, as we've known since Wundt and Fechner started experimenting on it in the 1860s, is selective and time-limited. What actually happens when we listen is that we're constantly 'refreshing' our attention to selected aspects of the sound.

In any case, the quality of musical reproduction is a function of the sound the speaker makes. It can't conceivably be otherwise.

In other words, I find the whole 'just listen to the music' thing both (a) rather trite and (b) a tad disingenuous.

 

[simon59]

Some great comment; thanks to one and all. I will wait until the thread goes cold and then try and incorporate the comments, again keeping it concise.

I think the 'listen to the music' comments are right but step 1 is to (if you are analytical as I am) pull apart what I am hearing, and then the acid test is when the musicality takes over - I am now relaxed with the technical elements and I am getting what I am paying for. I stepped up in my audition from a pair at £500 to the Monitor Audio 8s at £1200, with two or three pairs in between, and the MA8s did the best job at what I have listed. I am loving them (they replaced Spendor SP1s) and ploughing through my CDs once again. Which is the whole point