Equipment demos...

[jaxwired]

Yes it's much better to demo equipment than to buy blind (or deaf, you know what I mean). However, I gotta say there's so much wrong with the typical demo. You are typically not using your own electronics and you're in the shop's demo room that is nothing at all like your home. Acoustics are completely different, cables are different, and seating position is different, electronics are different. AND to make matters worse, the sales guy is hovering and making you nervous. You're definatly not in the same relaxed state you would be at home. Everything is working against you making a wise decision.

But, forget all that. Even if all that stuff doesn't matter, I just can't tell if I like an audio compenent in 20 minutes or even an hour. I usually decide slowly over a few weeks after listening to dozens of artists and logging many hours. Maybe I'm alone on this, but I've really got no idea if I love something until I live with it for a few weeks or even months.

 

[chebby]

Totally agree. (Although my dealer does not hover and is more likely to potter off and make a coffee for me and then leave me to it.)

The two listening rooms are different sizes and are comfortable but have a suspended tile ceiling (who has those at home?) They have done their best - within what is after all a shop premises - but the difference between results in the shop and at home are profound.

I guess there are two approaches to this. Are you (a) listening to find something that will sound great in your home?

or

(b) are you trying to find what will sound the best?

If you want to find what will sound the best then you will need to home demo every speaker, amp and source you can afford in every combination. That could take weeks or months (even if were possible or practical). Every demo unit would have to be burnt-in or run-in first and then you come to cables and the problem magnifies!

Life is too short and dealers simply don't have enough stock to provide every customer with examples of everything in their price range to exhaustively mix-and-match for weeks at home before purchase.

I think (a) is the more sensible approach. Find something that sounds great in your home that you can afford and buy it. Don't worry too much if - theoretically - there is some elusive combination 'out there' that you have not tried yet.

 

[Anonymous]

Interesting topic! So would it be fair to say - after doing all the research, reading reviews, and listening to demos - it would still be a throw of the dice to build a system that would work synergistically well together?

 

[idc]

jtein:Interesting topic! So would it be fair to say - after doing all the research, reading reviews, and listening to demos - it would still be a throw of the dice to get a system that would work synergistically well?

Yes. But that is not really a problem, if you do your research. I mean proper research, not posting a basic 'which amp?' type thread and leaving it up to others. I bought AKG headphones because I was able to listen to one competitor, which did not do it for me and I had noticed that a lot of MF owners used AKG headphones when reading through headphone forums.

Get creative and use your instinct. I would happily buy a B&O system. My grandmother and an uncle had one and I remember as a kid I loved the sound. Recently I was in a little craft shop and noticed the music sounded great. I had a look around and they had a B&O. So I asked for a look and a listen.

 

[Anonymous]

jtein:Interesting topic! So would it be fair to say - after doing all the research, reading reviews, and listening to demos - it would still be a throw of the dice to build a system that would work synergistically well together?

no not at all

the demos will give the idea of what the components are like far more than reviews etc can

your room certainly impacts on speaker performance but the nature of them will still come through as in a bright speaker will still be a bright speaker irrespective though the room can make it sound less bright and a warm relaxed sounding speaker will still be a warm relaxed sounding speaker

the room has zero impact on the other components

 

[Anonymous]

ALL you can do is minimise the differences where possible.

Find a shop that makes you comfortable and allows you to listen at your own leisure. If their hovering makes you feel ill at ease - then ask them if they would mind giving you a little time on your own.

Sometimes they may hover because in the early part of demo's people can be switching kit over to find a better choice for them. If you are basically happy with a sound - tell them that - and that you'll need some time to get to know it a bit. If a 1 hour demo is not enough - then ensure you arrange with them before-hand that you may need an entire afternoon, or come back once you have narrowed down a few options.

Level the playing field with kit where you can, by taking your own ancillaries with you, such as cables. I have recently been through the process (just finished yesterday) and took my cabling and powerblock and CD player with me - left the CD player in the shop overnight to warm-up for my dem.

I know the shop will allow me to change things if my decision happens to be different when I get it home. But in the past it's usually sounded better at home than in the shop anyway, thankfully.

 

[the record spot]

jtein:Interesting topic! So would it be fair to say - after doing all the research, reading reviews, and listening to demos - it would still be a throw of the dice to build a system that would work synergistically well together?

This is kind of what I've done over time. Changed my Linn CDP to the current one (SA7001-KI) in order to have CD/SACD in the one unit. Plus the Mimik was getting on for 15 years old, so although it was working well, I stuck it on a BIN with the Van den Hul "Name" i/c I was using for £200 and put that towards the new player. So, I guess I got the Marantz for £100 thanks to the sale price and my sale combined! No demo, as the dealer was in East Anglia, so bought blind and hoped that my experience of Marantz kit and Hi Fi World's high opinion of it as a contemporary standard were right.

Then of course, I needed to upgrade the speakers - the 733i Missions needed to go after a decade of faithful service - so, about a year ago, in came the Mission 752 which Hi Fi World rate as a classic and the reviews I recalled from the mid-90s in WHF were excellent. Another blind purchase, from a guy about 30 miles away from Edinburgh.

The sound was better, but a little too lean. After much to-ing and fro-ing with cables and amps, I settled on the below set-up with Audioquest cabling.

Is it right yet? Mostly, but I know I can get a better amp that will improve things further and one day will change the speakers too. For now, it's excellent - and for the money I've paid for this it really is, but this was all thought a twisted, sometimes tortuous but mostly enjoyable route. Would I have done the same if my amp cost £3000 instead of £33? Not a chance. There's only so much blind buying you can get away with in the end before the risk of a failed purchase outweighs the potential benefits of pinning the tail on the donkey.

(Mind you, I could upgrade the existing amp by having it modded...doh!)

 

[Frank Harvey]

jaxwired: Yes it's much better to demo equipment than to buy blind (or deaf, you know what I mean). However, I gotta say there's so much wrong with the typical demo. You are typically not using your own electronics and you're in the shop's demo room that is nothing at all like your home. Acoustics are completely different, cables are different, and seating position is different, electronics are different. AND to make matters worse, the sales guy is hovering and making you nervous. You're definatly not in the same relaxed state you would be at home. Everything is working against you making a wise decision.Firstly, a dealer, a good dealer will always try and replicate your system as closely as possible - either by using the same components (if current), or letting the customer know they can bring their own in.

All rooms will be different. There are a few things you can change like seating distance, but other than that, dealers can't afford a transforming room that can replicate every type of living room. Of course, people are free to try out various components in a demo room, see which one sounds best, then try it at home. If the speaker isn't quite suitable in a certain area, it should be quite easy to work out from the earlier demo which of the speakers tried would then suit the room. Whatever the demo room is like, it is possible to hear the differences between products.

The 'sales guy' will normally have a certain routine he will follow during dems, whether this be to 'leave you alone' or 'hover'. If he leaves you alone, he's accused of not bothering or wanting to help. If he hovers, he's accused of, well, hovering. Either way, he can't win, as everyone wants something different from him. Usually, I'll leave the customer alone to get aquainted with the first product, make them a coffee, then pop back later to change things over. I'll usually do this with couples, as they tend to like to want to discuss things between them, which they will feel easier about if I'm not there. This is fine if the customer isn't going to ask you what you feel about the differences, which they usually do. To answer this, you need to be there and hear what they heard.

Some people like a good long listen to a product, others only want to listen to short passages. If the latter, the 'sales guy' needs to be present, as he'll be swapping over equipment every few minutes.

chebby:Life is too short and dealers simply don't have enough stock to provide every customer with examples of everything in their price range to exhaustively mix-and-match for weeks at home before purchase.This is why we try and keep a very wide range of top speaker manufacturers, so people can hear them in the same room at one dealer, rather than having to visit 2 or maybe even 3 dealers in order to hear the speakers they want. Of course, it plays havoc with our backs

 

[jaxwired]

David,

The point of my post was not to blast dealers like yourself. I know it reads that way, but it was unintentional. I know you guys have a tough balancing act and there are many good dealers that work very hard to help the customer find the right equipment. My post was really just a rant about how I personally have to live with equipment before I know what works in my system.

Based on the how common it is for people to be frustrated or unsatisfied with their newly acquired gear, I don't think I'm alone.

I'm always elated by new gear for the first week or so. But it's not until a few months go by without an itch to change that I'm sure I'm truly satisfied.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Don't wory, I didn't read it as a 'blast' at dealers, although my reply might look as though I took it that way

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi: Usually, I'll leave the customer alone to get aquainted with the first product, make them a coffee, then pop back later to change things over. I'll usually do this with couples, as they tend to like to want to discuss things between them, which they will feel easier about if I'm not there. This is fine if the customer isn't going to ask you what you feel about the differences, which they usually do. To answer this, you need to be there and hear what they heard.

Some people like a good long listen to a product, others only want to listen to short passages. If the latter, the 'sales guy' needs to be present, as he'll be swapping over equipment every few minutes.

This is why we try and keep a very wide range of top speaker manufacturers, so people can hear them in the same room at one dealer, rather than having to visit 2 or maybe even 3 dealers in order to hear the speakers they want. Of course, it plays havoc with our backs

David, how I wish your shop's in Malaysia *sigh*

 

[Anonymous]

just a thought but if you came to the uk youd be buying without vat which would cover a large proportion of your air fare

mind you its cold and miserable here

 

[Anonymous]

True....but the hifi gear will incur taxes over here....so I might end up paying more.....and not forgetting the cost of shipping them back.

I was in Buckingham for 2 years ('89-'91) and didn't find it cold and miserable then