Dying iPod Classic (5th Gen)

neilmistry

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My iPod which is just under 2 years old is having problems. It's been well looked after (never dropped) and has been used for several hours a day, almost every work-day. The problem I'm having is that I can't copy a single album onto it without it crashing (the hard drive just clicks away and eventually get an error message) which then results in me having to resynch my entire library (140gb worth). Once fully synched though, it seems to play just fine. I've taken to an Apple store (and although they didn't run any diagnostics on it) they have said the hard disk is dying and to replace it will cost £94. I've found details on how to run the diagnostics myself and I do believe that the hard disk is suffering from write failures.

I'm reluctant to replace the hard drive as it may well fail again in future, so I'm thinking of going for a 16gb Nano and keeping the classic for use at home on my Zeppelin. I won't be transferring any more music to it now that I have fully synched it again. I had a listen to a Nano yesterday and I was really impressed with the sound quality. I use my iPod on the daily train jouneys as well as in the office. I realise that I will have to regularly refresh the Nano but I estimate that with my collection (a mixture of 320kbs and Apple Lossless) I should be able to get around 70-80 albums on there.

Does anyone have any comments regarding the Nano or perhaps any other suggestions? Apple seemed quite dismissive. Less than 2 years seems a pretty poor life for such an item. I love their products, by I'm pretty disappointed by this one.
 

hammill

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neilmistry said:
My iPod which is just under 2 years old is having problems. It's been well looked after (never dropped) and has been used for several hours a day, almost every work-day. The problem I'm having is that I can't copy a single album onto it without it crashing (the hard drive just clicks away and eventually get an error message) which then results in me having to resynch my entire library (140gb worth). Once fully synched though, it seems to play just fine. I've taken to an Apple store (and although they didn't run any diagnostics on it) they have said the hard disk is dying and to replace it will cost £94. I've found details on how to run the diagnostics myself and I do believe that the hard disk is suffering from write failures.

I'm reluctant to replace the hard drive as it may well fail again in future, so I'm thinking of going for a 16gb Nano and keeping the classic for use at home on my Zeppelin. I won't be transferring any more music to it now that I have fully synched it again. I had a listen to a Nano yesterday and I was really impressed with the sound quality. I use my iPod on the daily train jouneys as well as in the office. I realise that I will have to regularly refresh the Nano but I estimate that with my collection (a mixture of 320kbs and Apple Lossless) I should be able to get around 70-80 albums on there.

Does anyone have any comments regarding the Nano or perhaps any other suggestions? Apple seemed quite dismissive. Less than 2 years seems a pretty poor life for such an item. I love their products, by I'm pretty disappointed by this one.
Less than 2 years is awful. My creative zen is several years old and still going strong. If you want an ultra portable, I have a Sandisk Sansa clip+ which is very cheap, very small, easy to use and sounds good. It can easily be upgraded to 24gb
 

SnowyJohn

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Hi, I understand your disappointment but unfortunately the blame is not really with Apple per say, the same would go for any other portable music player manufacturer. All disk-type drives will fail eventually, even server grade ones. The music player manufacturers often do not manufacture the actual hard drives. You may be considered a little unfortunate that yours has died in 2 years, but it was always destined to happen. Apple offer high quality and well engineered products, the iPods are a testiment to that, but they are always going to depend on what technology is on offer.

The move to steady-state (flash) drives should see these devices "living" longer. I would suggest that an ipod touch is better value for money as it can do so much more than a nano, but if you already have a smartphone that makes use of apps etc then the nano might be perfect.

Regards
 

Timbot

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I've seen videos on a popular website for people to upload videos to (I've linked to this site before and had my post edited due to profanities in the comments left by other people below the video...) which show how to remove and replace the HD in an iPod video (5th gen).

I've dismantled mine in the past as it stopped working and found the battery connector wasn't in properly. It was fine after I put it back together (until I lost it...)

If it's not working properly then you've not much to loose but I guess it'd be a pain if it destroyed it (please don't come knocking on my door if you try it and it breaks!)

On a slightly different note, I had a 5th gen Ipod (as I mentioned above I've now lost it) and I have an iPhone 4 (which thankfully I haven't lost... yet...) I get really annoyed at the iPhone as I can't come even slightly close to fitting my entire library on it and I miss not having everything when I want it- can't be spontaneous if a song choice pops into my head.

Hope this helps!
 

neilmistry

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The iPod was bought from Amazon. I might well contact them but I suspect they might say the same as Apple - hard drives will eventually fail. Apple said they would have replaced it if it was under 12 months old.

I have just bought an iPhone 4, but it's the 8gb model so not enough storage for much music, although ok as a stop gap. The Nano would be a good solution and it so small so easy to carry around. I was really impressed with the sound (testing it out using my own earphones) and although not big enough to store my entire collection, it's still big enough for a good selection. I know the Classic 5g is regarded as the best sounding iPod, but I have to say I thought the Nano sounded better - deeper bass and crisper top-end. Although the Touch does look good, there's too much overlap with the iPhone.
 
Contact Amazon....you may just be pleasantly surprised.

Last year, my 18-month old Sony Vaio developed a motherboard problem. I contacted Amazon on the phone, & told them that Sony advised me to contact them as per Sale of Goods Act (I had to put this somewhere). Amazon refunded me the entire amount without asking a question. I returned my faulty laptop to them. I then bought another laptop with the money.

Hard drives don't normally fail within 2 years. Most manufacturers offer a 5 year guarantee on hard drives.
 

neilmistry

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Contacted Amazon who said that they only cover electronic items for 12 months. They said that despite me sending a standard letter/email quoting Sale Of Goods Act.

Oh well, a new Nano it is then and I'll keep the Classic until it truly dies - it plays fine now that it has been fully resynched, but I know if I try and copy a single album to it, it will just click away, fail to update and then say the iPod is empty.
 

neilmistry

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snivilisationism said:
I would take it to the local Apple store. There have been some stories of them being very very generous.

failing that, there is a "how to" here...

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/technical-articles/274-a-secrets-technical-article.html

I took it in before to let their 'Genius' take a look as I was told they would run it through some diagnostics, but he didn't even turn it on and told me I need to get the hard drive replaced. They were quite dismissive.
 

The_Lhc

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neilmistry said:
snivilisationism said:
I would take it to the local Apple store. There have been some stories of them being very very generous.

failing that, there is a "how to" here...

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/technical-articles/274-a-secrets-technical-article.html

I took it in before to let their 'Genius' take a look as I was told they would run it through some diagnostics, but he didn't even turn it on and told me I need to get the hard drive replaced. They were quite dismissive.

Given you confirmed that diagnosis yourself what else did you expect them to say?
 
neilmistry said:
Contacted Amazon who said that they only cover electronic items for 12 months. They said that despite me sending a standard letter/email quoting Sale Of Goods Act.

Oh well, a new Nano it is then and I'll keep the Classic until it truly dies - it plays fine now that it has been fully resynched, but I know if I try and copy a single album to it, it will just click away, fail to update and then say the iPod is empty.

That's strange, because even a laptop is an electrical item. Don't allow yourself to be fobbed off. you have more rights than you think. Check this example.

Contact Consumer Direct for advice.
 

SnowyJohn

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bigboss said:

That's a great example and raises some really interesting customer rights education issues. Unfortunately, it's not quite as easy to walk up to a manager at Amazon and refuse to leave unless he gets an answer from HQ - something eRetailers are no doubt very aware of.
 
A

Anonymous

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I would go back to the Apple store, mention the rules, and that you are posting to WHF about it. DOn't give in. That's what they want.
 

neilmistry

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I contacted Amazon again (as they sold it and therefore the Sale of Goods Act applies to them and not Apple) and mentioned that the warranty is up is irrelevant. They are currently investigating, so keeping my fingers crossed.

I also contacted Consumer Direct via their webiste but they don't think they have any obligation since it's outside the warranty.
 

neilmistry

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Well, Amazon gave me the 2 fingers, since I had been using it up until now (23 months) without any problems. So what's the point in having a 2 year rule if retailers ignore it?! :wall:
 
Don't stop here. Check these links:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009/jun/05/consumer-rights-returned-goods

http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/cons_info/10principles/en.pdf

http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/cons_info/10principles/en.pdf

http://ec.europa.eu/publications/booklets/move/64/en.pdf

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1677034/Two-year-warranty-EU-law.html

I would suggest:

1) Write to Amazon with links 2, 3 & 4 which are from European Union website, & explain to them that their outright rejection is illegal. Also tell them that you would approach small claims court if needed.

2) Make a claim in small claims court. It only costs £25 & can be done online. The £25 is refunded if you win. You dont need a lawyer & can represent yourself. Most retailers won't bother with the small claims court, as it costs them more to contest it.

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_rights/legal_system/small_claims.htm

3) Speak to your credit card issuer. Even they are liable as per section 75: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382928/Credit-card-firms-refund-price-faulty-goods-students-legal-battle.html
 

bigblue235

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I too would write to Amazon, but I wouldn't refer to the EU documents, I'd refer to the SOGA, as this is the applicable legislation and contains all of the protection that the EU provide and more.

There was a period when retailers were offering compensation based on misunderstanding the EU directive, but most have wised up now. The EU directive actually only provides a two-year limitation period for claiming the statutory rights in the relevant regulations. The SOGA gives a limitation period of up to 6 years. But neither provide any sort of product warranty.

If you can prove that the item is inherently faulty then Amazon can be pursued for compensation, but at the moment all you have is a non-working hard drive, it must be demonstrated that it's faulty before you can demand anything.

I'd agree that Small Claims and S75 are good avenues to pursue.

Usually someone will argue with me about the supposed 'Two-Year EU Warranty' :) but don't argue with me, argue with Bucks County Council Trading Standards, as they give a fairly clear explanation on their site with the article 'Euro Myth' http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/bcc/trading_standards/consumer_advice/know-your_rights.page?

The best place for related info is Consumer Direct/Advice or check out the newish Sale of Goods Act hub website http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-customers-fairly/sogahome/;jsessionid=609C552EE12F1AABD7AE95E8E3C638ED
 

pwiles1968

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May not do anything at all but have you tried hooking the iPod up to a machine that does not have iTunes installed and re-formatting the Drive, then rebuild it with iTunes? Issue sounds fairly serious so It may well not help but possibly worth arty if it is terminal anyway.
 

Big Aura

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take a look at Amazon's standard warranty on electronic goods. If it states you have a warranty of 12 months then after that period, you can still make a breach of contract claim on the basis that the goods are sub-standard as they should, in the normal course, be expected to last longer than the 23 months you had from your iPod. If their terms state that the 12 month warranty is your sole remedy in respect of defects in the item, you've little chance.

Personally, I would expect an expensive piece of consumer electronica to be free from latent defects for at least 4 years, and would claim accordingly (note this isn't going to be the case with wear & tear items, like batteries or headphones).
 

bigblue235

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It doesn't really matter what Amazon's conditions state, you can still claim your statutory rights :) But the legislation protects retailers too, which is why the consumer can be asked to demonstrate why the goods do not conform to contract. Not all non-working items are faulty.
 

Big Aura

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bigblue235 said:
It doesn't really matter what Amazon's conditions state, you can still claim your statutory rights :) But the legislation protects retailers too, which is why the consumer can be asked to demonstrate why the goods do not conform to contract. Not all non-working items are faulty.

if your statutory rights are that "good conform to a contract" then Amazon's conditions of contract (i.e. the contract you're hoping to have your goods conform to) are of paramount importance! The SOGA applies additional implied conditions into a consumer contract. The point made above is that, under English law the limitation period to sue under a contract is 6 years from the date of performance of such contract (12 years in the case of a deed) - i.e. you can sue under your contract with Amazon for 6 years, but only on a term of that contract (whether and express or implied term). If your contract contains a "sole remedy" clause stating that electronic goods are warranted for 12 months only and no other remedies exist then, unless that term is an unfair contract term foisted on an unsuspecting and unsophisticated consumer, you're kinda stuck with it. This does not, of course, "switch off" your SOGA statutory rights - but you need to prove that the durability/satisfactory quality argument extends beyond 12 months. There appears to be a general consenus that 12 months is "normal" for electronic goods, which is hard to fight against. That said, I'd personally enjoy the fight!
 

neilmistry

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Amazon still won't accept that they are liable, saying they disagree with my interpretation of the EU law. They have said that they will reconsider if I get a report from Apple (or an independant engineer) and only if they say it was defective at the time of purchase. I might pop into the Apple shop at lunch (I work just over from the Bull Ring in Birmingham) but not hoping for much as basically when I went in before they said there was nothing they could do.
 

Lee H

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Try emailing Jeff Bezos directly. I'm pretty sure I can't post and email address on here, but if you Google "Jeff Bezos email" you'll get what you're after; it's a shorter address than you may think. You can also try Brian McBride (UK MD) but his address is harder to find.

The chances are it'll get filtered off in to a support team, but you never know your luck. After moving house last month I had some issues with BT. I exchanged emails with Ian Livingston (CEO) and got my issues sorted.

All you have to lose is a couple of minutes of your time. Remember (as I'm sure you will), be polite & avoid talking litigation. You've been a loyal customer and this has really let you down. You'd like to carry on shopping with Amazon in the future (Christmas is nearly here afterall) but this is damaging your faith in the company.
 

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