Does it make a difference to sound quality which laptop used as source?

[admin_exported]

Hi, I use a laptop as a source playing all my music from iTunes via an external hard drive. The laptop runs via a MF V-Link II from USB and then into a DAC via the optical output on the V-Link. I want to continue using iTunes as the media player rather than e.g. JRiver because a significant number of my tracks are protected AAC which cannot be uploaded into JRiver etc. I'm assuming that even using the V-Link the music from iTunes is being processed by Windows before being output to the V-Link/DAC and I don't think I can achieve bit perfect output from my Windows based setup unless I use a different media player. The laptop source I currently use is a Toshiba Equium U400. I would appreciate your comments on 4 questions: 1. Are my assumptions above correct? 2. Can I optimise my current setup to achieve bit perfect without using an alternative to iTunes? 3. Does the laptop make a difference? I'm thinking of buying a MacBook Pro anyway (for using while I am playing music with the other one) but now beginning to think I would be better using that as the music source and the Toshiba for web browsing etc. 4. I believe you can buy a solution for iTunes which produces bit perfect output but this is only available for Macs? Thanks

 

[SteveR750]

Steve, when I was researching which laptop to buy, it was more a case of PC vs Mac. I'm not sure if different PC's sound different, they probably do if Windows is going to interfere, which as far as I could determine will always be the case. I don't think iTunes can be set for exclusive use of the soundcard, so the output will always be via the kernel mixer. In my experience, I actually preferred Windoiws Media PLayer to itunes of my laptop, but of cousre using J River is a different level altogether.

However, I'm sure that iTunes when used on a Mac will have exclusive use of the sound card / optical out, so you should be able to get a bit perfect stream that way. I'm not sure how it works using a USB driver though, and some DACs work better in USB mode (the dacmagic + does for me).

 

[idc]

IME, no the laptop makes no difference. Others have had different experiences.

At the moment, there is no evidence that whilst in its digital code form that any music file can be affected in terms of sound quality. It will either work or it will not. No one has shown a link between say bass depth or sound stage and how the digital code is transmitted within a laptop or anything else for that matter. So claims that such can make a difference are not backed up by testing and evidence is limited to subjective opinion which fails to account for all sorts of other biases and influences.

 

[amcluesent]

As you say, with iTunes you can't be sure anything is bit perfect due to it's use of the Windows Mixer and, on the Mac, the system transcoding to the bit-rate set for the soundcard.

On Windows you can always use foobar200 and the WASAPI, but it's all a lot easier IMHO to use a dedicated streamer.

 

[SteveR750]

As you say, with iTunes you can't be sure anything is bit perfect due to it's use of the Windows Mixer and, on the Mac, the system transcoding to the bit-rate set for the soundcard.

On Windows you can always use foobar200 and the WASAPI, but it's all a lot easier IMHO to use a dedicated streamer.

$38 and J River makes W7 laptop into a bit perfect streamer (though if the definition of streamer means "transport" only with a separate DAC of course). It works fine in WASAPI Event via optical and ASIO via USB.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the replies.

I tend to agree that the laptop itself is unlikely to make any difference in SQ, was mainly thinking about ability to achieve bit perfect output from iTunes so in hindsight my post title was wrong (it was because I am thinking the best way for me to try to achieve bit perfect output from iTunes is by switching from Windows to Mac).

I think if I switched to a Mac I can avoid the issue of the system transcoding to the bit-rate set for the soundcard due to using the MF V-Link II which provides an asynchronous output from the USB port which is how I would set up the Mac also.

Does anybody use a Mac as their source and play through iTunes?

Have you tried the BitPerfect media player and if so what do you think?

Does a MacBook Pro have any benefits in terms of quieter fan or anything which helps the music experience?

Thanks

 

[Overdose]

Does anybody use a Mac as their source and play through iTunes?

Have you tried the BitPerfect media player and if so what do you think?

Does a MacBook Pro have any benefits in terms of quieter fan or anything which helps the music experience?

Thanks

I use a Mac mini and have no real issues. I did experience clipping, that I stopped by adjusting the gain on my preamp and reducing the system and iTunes volume levels. It seemed as if iTunes/system when set to maximum or near it, was overdriving my preamp. I don't know if this is the case or not, but the adjustments mentioned, seemed to work.

To isolate any possible electrical noise, optical connection is best, although asyncronous USB should be equally as good regarding sound quality.

A question about bit perfect. What is it? How do you know if you have it or not?

 

[SteveR750]

If the media player is making any kind of DSP effect, including gain then the output by definition is not bit perfect. If you are going to apply gain, or any other signal processing it's worth noting how the software does this, for example J River makes a big point about its DSP that processes the data in the 64 bit environment so in theory should have no detrimental effect on the out SQ (you can google how this works - if the DSP is in 16 bits then you can compromise the SQ)

A bit perfect stream simply means there is no change to the data from the original source file as presented to the DAC, analogous to a defeat switch on amp tone controls perhaps

 

[Overdose]

I see, so no DSP=bitstream perfect? or not that simple?

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Overdose, I'll let SteveR750 (or others) respond to that one as best placed but my understanding is it's about avoiding any manipulation of the data between media player to DAC.

Question for SteveR750 please:

Steve,

Have decided to download the free trial of JRiver Media Center based on what I've seen in previous threads from you and reviews elsewhere.

Can you please advise me any tips, best settings to use based on your experience and to get me going? I use Windows Vista.

Thanks

 

[SteveR750]

Hi Overdose, I'll let SteveR750 (or others) respond to that one as best placed but my understanding is it's about avoiding any manipulation of the data between media player to DAC.

Question for SteveR750 please:

Steve,

Have decided to download the free trial of JRiver Media Center based on what I've seen in previous threads from you and reviews elsewhere.

Can you please advise me any tips, best settings to use based on your experience and to get me going? I use Windows Vista.

Thanks

Hi Steve,

I posted some tips elsewhere, though the obvious one (and not very helpful I now) is to upgrade from Vista to 7!

The best source of info is the J River website itself, which not only has their own guides, but the forum is very very useful.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Steve, got myself set up easily enough in the event, pretty straight forward as good doc.s on the JRiver site as you say.

Why is Windows 7 beneficial vs Vista?

Also, do you know any method of removing duplicates from within JRiver - I know it has an option to remove duplicates from within Playing Now but I'm looking to sort and delete permanantly if possible? I have LOTS so manual sorting is not really an option.

 

[quadpatch]

Why is Windows 7 beneficial vs Vista?

I bought JRiver last week and I am curious about this as well. I thought as long as it's on at least SP1 Vista will support WASAPI and the ret should be the same right? I guess if you only have the 32bit OS then you can't use the 64bit effects. Other than that I'd be curious to know if there are any differences at all. I use Vista at work and 7 at home (both 64bit), not noticed any differences yet but I don't use the same DAC on both systems.

 

[SteveR750]

Sorry, I was being slightly facetious again, as far as I know, J River will work equally well with both, but generally W7 is much more stable than Vista, buit this is not new news!

 

[SteveR750]

Thanks Steve, got myself set up easily enough in the event, pretty straight forward as good doc.s on the JRiver site as you say.

Why is Windows 7 beneficial vs Vista?

Also, do you know any method of removing duplicates from within JRiver - I know it has an option to remove duplicates from within Playing Now but I'm looking to sort and delete permanantly if possible? I have LOTS so manual sorting is not really an option.

Just click and delete. It will ask you if you want to remove from library, or remove from library and computer altogether. Once you remove a file from the library, biut retain in the pc , it won't "re-install" that file when you search or import new files.

The fiddliest thing ois to rename the files on compilation cds. They have the individual artist in the album file name, so MC imports as separate albume entries. The only answer is to rename each file, then do a webs earch and tag the CD art work