Distortion near end of record

[leftfield]

Having managed to sneak an hours listening this evening I noticed some sibilance and distortion on side 1 of Erasure - Wild. Being a recent car boot purchase, and despite a good clean, I just thought it was a worn copy. I then put on side 1 of Joe Jackson - Night and Day which started very well but got grdually worse until Stepping Out which was unlistenable. Now trying Eurythmics and same problem, sibilance on vocals and disortion anywhere near a high frequency.

Is this likely to be a set up problem or something more serious?

Thanks

 

[toyota man]

Hi leftfield I would check your trackind and bias settings I havent had a TT for 30 odd years but that is what it sounds like to me

 

[leftfield]

Thanks. I'm going to re check the alignment and tracking weight tomorrow but am concerned that if the stylus does need replacing I will cause damage to the vinyl.

 

[respe]

It sounds like alignment and setting more than cart problems. If your cart was worn you would hear it in various places, not just near the end of the record, I would suggest you pop over to vinyl engine, find the best alignment protractor for you deck, and re set everything. Make sure the protractor prints at full size. Some computer/printer set ups reduce the print size.

It would also be worth making sure the stylus is clean. A brush and Vinyl Passion DustBuster seems to work fine for me.

 

[rjb70stoke]

I had exactly the same problem recently when playing Sgt. Peppers, had to re-align the cartridge so that it was slightly offset. I also had to increase the tracking force slightly. But now all records play well and sound fantastic.

:dance:

 

[leftfield]

Thanks for the advice. I have printed the simple protractors from Vinyl Engine and will check the cartridge alignment this evening. Has anyone any experience of the Baerwald, Loefgren or Stevenson protractors and which would work better on a Project?

 

[MajorFubar]

All this is great advice but remember also that LPs often sound worse at the end in any case because of the slower linear velocity.

 

[leftfield]

I've checked the alignment and tracking force and the same distortion. It is particularly prominent on the left hand channel and the music just lacks space and sounds compressed. I will be upgrading the turntable later in the year so I'm going to replace the cartridge, probably with a cheap AT95e. I've just noticed my 2yrs old has pushed a pen through the right hand speaker tweeter. The joys.......

 

[gregory]

I've checked the alignment and tracking force and the same distortion. It is particularly prominent on the left hand channel and the music just lacks space and sounds compressed. I will be upgrading the turntable later in the year so I'm going to replace the cartridge, probably with a cheap AT95e. I've just noticed my 2yrs old has pushed a pen through the right hand speaker tweeter. The joys.......

my grand daughter has fascination for my hi fi so i am teaching her how to use it with some old beat up records and the cd player, shes getting there but at just over 2 years old herself so caution is advised but i do fell for you, kids, how is the stylus does it need replacing, all suggestions above seem sound advice but maybe back off on the bias but the AT will not sound as good as the 510, you could upgrade to the 520 which is a fine line stylus which could cure the problem, budget permitting of course.

 

[DandyCobalt]

I've just noticed my 2yrs old has pushed a pen through the right hand speaker tweeter. The joys.......

There's always adoption. I've threatened ours with it on several occasions. Usually does the trick

 

[leftfield]

I've checked the alignment and tracking force and the same distortion. It is particularly prominent on the left hand channel and the music just lacks space and sounds compressed. I will be upgrading the turntable later in the year so I'm going to replace the cartridge, probably with a cheap AT95e. I've just noticed my 2yrs old has pushed a pen through the right hand speaker tweeter. The joys.......

my grand daughter has fascination for my hi fi so i am teaching her how to use it with some old beat up records and the cd player, shes getting there but at just over 2 years old herself so caution is advised but i do fell for you, kids, how is the stylus does it need replacing, all suggestions above seem sound advice but maybe back off on the bias but the AT will not sound as good as the 510, you could upgrade to the 520 which is a fine line stylus which could cure the problem, budget permitting of course.

I'm no expert but the stylus looks ok. I re checked the alignment using one of the protractors from vinyl engine and have set the vertical downforce to 1.5 as suggested on thr Ortofon website. I bought the turntable used and whilst I replaced the cartridge a few years ago that was also used but with very littleuseage. Its a landmark birthday at the end of the year and will be replacing the turntable. I am looking for a cheap cartridge as a stop gap hence the AT which i hope will continue to make listening to vinyl enjoyable. As an aside, contacted b and w today and £70 for a replacement tweeter.

 

[CJSF]

I've checked the alignment and tracking force and the same distortion. It is particularly prominent on the left hand channel and the music just lacks space and sounds compressed. I will be upgrading the turntable later in the year so I'm going to replace the cartridge, probably with a cheap AT95e. I've just noticed my 2yrs old has pushed a pen through the right hand speaker tweeter. The joys.......

my grand daughter has fascination for my hi fi so i am teaching her how to use it with some old beat up records and the cd player, shes getting there but at just over 2 years old herself so caution is advised but i do fell for you, kids, how is the stylus does it need replacing, all suggestions above seem sound advice but maybe back off on the bias but the AT will not sound as good as the 510, you could upgrade to the 520 which is a fine line stylus which could cure the problem, budget permitting of course.

I'm no expert but the stylus looks ok. I re checked the alignment using one of the protractors from vinyl engine and have set the vertical downforce to 1.5 as suggested on thr Ortofon website. I bought the turntable used and whilst I replaced the cartridge a few years ago that was also used but with very littleuseage. Its a landmark birthday at the end of the year and will be replacing the turntable. I am looking for a cheap cartridge as a stop gap hence the AT which i hope will continue to make listening to vinyl enjoyable. As an aside, contacted b and w today and £70 for a replacement tweeter.

Mmm . . . Assuming the alignment and stylus are OK (sighting up the cantilever for alignment, dont worry about the body) . . . one suspects the down force and/or bias. Neither adjustments are 'carved in stone'. Tonearms can be notorious for being not to accurate in their marking compared with what sort of force is actually being applied.

Obviously one assumes you started by balancing the arm to horizontal and zero on tracing force and zero bias.

So a little bit of trial and error is required, on both, try the stylus down force first, go up at least to 1.75gs even a little more, in two or three increments, see how it sounds at each point. Down force recommendations are only a guide, then adjust the bias accordingly, again trial and error till it sounds right, bias force can be very vauge at the best of times?

CJSF

 

[leftfield]

I had the opportunity to follow CJSFs advice this morning and spent some time adjusting the settings on the tonearm. It did appear to have made an improvement to the tracking and lower frequencies but the trebble was still very shrill and hollow. It wasaat this point I had a brainwave, if youngest son had taken a liking to the right hand speaker I wonder if the left held the same fascination? I removed the tweeter cover to discover in an attempt at symetary he had caused similar damage to that one also. Great. When the replacement tweeters arrive I am hoping this will have been the cause of the poor sound quality. On the positive side, the turntable has had a good check up and the stylus is spotless, but at this rate I suspect greece may have cleared its national debt by the time my sons allowance account breaks even!!

 

[CJSF]

I had the opportunity to follow CJSFs advice this morning and spent some time adjusting the settings on the tonearm. It did appear to have made an improvement to the tracking and lower frequencies but the trebble was still very shrill and hollow. It wasaat this point I had a brainwave, if youngest son had taken a liking to the right hand speaker I wonder if the left held the same fascination? I removed the tweeter cover to discover in an attempt at symetary he had caused similar damage to that one also. Great. When the replacement tweeters arrive I am hoping this will have been the cause of the poor sound quality. On the positive side, the turntable has had a good check up and the stylus is spotless, but at this rate I suspect greece may have cleared its national debt by the time my sons allowance account breaks even!!

To every cloud there is a silver lining . . . you are halfway there 'leftfield', sounds like we have a handle on the tracking . . . I cant do anything about the 2 year old . . .

I dont know the 510 cartridge but looking at the spec., and price it a budget job. So it will/has (we think?) improved, the 520 stylus will be a further improvement, requiring the same setup procedure as described for the 510. I suspect the finances might be stretched with X2 tweeter change . . .

Enjoy the music . . . when the tweeters are normal . . . you have to smile dont you, the little blighter . . . :rofl:

CJSF

 

[leftfield]

Thanks CJSF. The tweeters have been ordered and should arrive tomorrow. I have also ordered the project se upgrade kit, so this coupled with a clean and lubrication of the spindle bearing (found some instructions online) and I'm hoping to be back normal. I agree with you on the 510 cartridge but as I will be upgrading the turntable near the end of the year I am hoping it will satisfy my ears until then! (Wet weekend forecast seems ideal for some HiFi diy).

 

[nima]

Just a thought, did you make any positional changes to your system recently, like placing some unit with a power supply to the left or under your TT, so your cart might be picking up interference?

 

[CJSF]

Just a thought, did you make any positional changes to your system recently, like placing some unit with a power supply to the left or under your TT, so your cart might be picking up interference?

As the symptoms are; 'distortion happens towards the end of the record' . . . if the problem was externally generated, it would be at random or at all times of playing?

Most likely to be cartridge/arm set up, as the OP has indicated, he cant be sure until his two year old's modifications have been rectified :?

CJSF

 

[CJSF]

Thanks CJSF. The tweeters have been ordered and should arrive tomorrow. I have also ordered the project se upgrade kit, so this coupled with a clean and lubrication of the spindle bearing (found some instructions online) and I'm hoping to be back normal. I agree with you on the 510 cartridge but as I will be upgrading the turntable near the end of the year I am hoping it will satisfy my ears until then! (Wet weekend forecast seems ideal for some HiFi diy).

When its time to upgrade, looking at the posts, Nagioka cartridges are getting good reports MP-110,150 or 200? At a reasonable price too if you search around on the net?

As a reasonable cost stop gap, if you are suspicious of your current cartridge dimond tip, the 520 stylus replacement will fit the 510 body, the diamond as has been noted is a better type, may even satisfy your needs for some time to come?

Just me thinking aloud.

CJSF

 

[stevebrock]

If your budget allows I really do suggest the MP200 - The boron cantilever of the MP200 really does kick the MP150 into touch.

The sound is very lush, airy detailed - It is a fantastic cart.

This from VinylEngine

The aluminium cantilever has its resonance at a lower frequency than the boron one due to higher mass - typically something like 14 to 16kHz - this boosts the frequencies in a gentle bell curve from an octave before the resonance to an octave after (1/2 the frequency to double the frequency) - therefore raising the high end and making the cartridge sound "brighter".

With the Boron cantilever the resonance is shifted up, depending on the quality of the cantilever it may be anywhere from 19kHz to 28kHz - leaving the critical audio zones either totally neutral, or with only a very slight rise.

 

[leftfield]

Good news and bad news. Both tweeters arrived yesterday and were fitted in under half an hour this morning. Very easy to do and great service from B and W. Following the speaker repair I disconnected the turntable and placed on the kitchen table to make the se upgrade installation a little easier. That took 10 minutes thanks to you tube and for the first time since I've owned the turntable it was silent on start up and whilst spinning. Couldn't wait to spin a record, bbut thought whilst I've got the table at a comfortable height I'll check the cartridge set up again. All was going well until I arrermpted to adjust the azimuth angle (for the first time) despite being very careful loosening the screw it came out. Not a problem I thought, I'll get my long nosé tweezers and pop it back in. Now the bad news. As I lifted the tweezers and azimyth screw to the thread on the tonearm.......twang....the screw flew out of the tweezers, across the kitchen table and 4hrs and 35mins later despite a finger tip search it has still not surfaced.

I imagine a replacement will need to come from project so at least another week without any vinyl. Hey ho!!

 

[CJSF]

Good news and bad news. Both tweeters arrived yesterday and were fitted in under half an hour this morning. Very easy to do and great service from B and W. Following the speaker repair I disconnected the turntable and placed on the kitchen table to make the se upgrade installation a little easier. That took 10 minutes thanks to you tube and for the first time since I've owned the turntable it was silent on start up and whilst spinning. Couldn't wait to spin a record, bbut thought whilst I've got the table at a comfortable height I'll check the cartridge set up again. All was going well until I arrermpted to adjust the azimuth angle (for the first time) despite being very careful loosening the screw it came out. Not a problem I thought, I'll get my long nosé tweezers and pop it back in. Now the bad news. As I lifted the tweezers and azimyth screw to the thread on the tonearm.......twang....the screw flew out of the tweezers, across the kitchen table and 4hrs and 35mins later despite a finger tip search it has still not surfaced.

I imagine a replacement will need to come from project so at least another week without any vinyl. Hey ho!!

O' poo!!! . . . or words to that effect!!!!!!!! I do this often in my shed, I am a model maker, so lots of small screws and tiny metal bits 'pinging about'.

Grab the 'old tweeter', magnet end down and wave it about the kitchen floor you might be lucky, I find all sorts of stuff in the corners of my shed floor, lots moor detritus than your kitchen . . . Thats unless your Misses has hoovered up since, in which case, empty out the vacuum bag onto a sheet of news paper on a tray and rummage around with the tweeter magnet.

Another source of a good magnet is an old door catch? I keep an old nood speaker magnet on the Dexion shelving for this purpose, also use it to 'wipe' a screwdriver on . . . instant magnetic screwdriver for the placement of tiny screws?

It may not work, but the chances are at least 50-50?

CJSF

 

[chebby]

Get your torch (preferably a good LED one) and get down on the floor with it (side of head actually on the floor). Now shine the beam of the torch along the floor and look along the beam. Even small things will show up quite well this way. Of course if it's carpeted you're b#####ed!

 

[CJSF]

Get your torch (preferably a good LED one) and get down on the floor with it (side of head actually on the floor). Now shine the beam of the torch along the floor and look along the beam. Even small things will show up quite well this way. Of course if it's carpeted you're b#####ed!

Yep, a torch is a briliant idea, coupled with the magnet even with carpet you have a good chance, great pre bedtime activity . . . :rofl:

 

[chebby]

Get your torch (preferably a good LED one) and get down on the floor with it (side of head actually on the floor). Now shine the beam of the torch along the floor and look along the beam. Even small things will show up quite well this way. Of course if it's carpeted you're b#####ed!

Well, not quite b#####ed. Cut off a length of ladies tights so you have a 'sock'. Feed that into your vacuum cleaner tube with the open end of the 'sock' overlapping the end of the tube. Now put your carpet attachment on the end of the tube so that the end of the sock is clamped in place.

Vacuum the entire floor. Now turn tights 'sock' inside-out and empty contents into a bowl or a bucket. The little screw will have - hopefully - got trapped in this rather than disappear into dust bag. (Assuming it was there in the first place.)

 

[leftfield]

Thanksd for all the suggestions. I don't have a strong magnet but I've covered the floor with the old sleeker tweeter in hand and no sign of the blighter. I'm beginning to think it may be already haveleft the kitchen attached to a sock or something.

As an aside other than keeping the arm square what other purpose does the screw serve? I ask as since it has gone missing the arm will no longer lower to the platter and with any weight or anti skate the arm pulls away from the spindle before it could be lowered. Have I moved something accidentally?