Denon DBP2012UD Price dropping

michael hoy

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Oct 6, 2008
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Can anyone at WHF shed any light on why the price of the Denon DBP2012UD is coming down.

The Marantz UD7006 has not come down and I am just wondering if a new model might be on the cards.
 

michael hoy

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bigboss said:
New models are generally announced at CES. The next CES is from 10th to 13th Jan 2012. maybe new models wil be announced, but they're unlikely to be sold before March.

Thanks BB, I knew CES was generally the place for new announcements and was hoping someone may have heard a whisper.

I have been thinking of changing my Denon 2500BT, but cannot make my mind up which manufacturer to go with.

Demoed the OPPO 95 - very impressive

I do like my 2500 the PQ and SQ in combination with the rest of my equipment is excellent, but wanted a universal player this time round.
 
I've been thinking of buying a universal player as well.....will probably get round to it next year or so. For now, Oppo 93 & Denon 2012UD seem the likely contenders. Is it easy to make the Denon multiregion for DVDs?

You've got the brilliant Pioneer LX85. I don't think the Oppo 95 will offer a significant advantage over the 93 if you allow your Pioneer to decode audio.
 

michael hoy

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bigboss said:
I've been thinking of buying a universal player as well.....will probably get round to it next year or so. For now, Oppo 93 & Denon 2012UD seem the likely contenders. Is it easy to make the Denon multiregion for DVDs?

You've got the brilliant Pioneer LX85. I don't think the Oppo 95 will offer a significant advantage over the 93 if you allow your Pioneer to decode audio.

Your probably right on the OPPO 93 over the 95 if i let the amp decode ( that is how i have it now).

multiregion 2012 being sold here for £549.

Hardware mod for Blu Ray here.
 

manicm

Well-known member
Look, my 2 cents: I have the Cambridge Audio 751BD but think universal players are overhyped, especially since the majority of them don't have the DSD decoders to properly bring out the best from SACD, unless you have an amp that can do so. If Sony et al want to sell more music on physical mediums why the hell not release more blu-ray audio discs? And pass the savings to improving video and audio where it counts, or better streaming capabilities. I'm waiting for a CA engineer to come good on his promise of iPod control of the 751 without needing the telly, for playing music off USB/NAS.
 

jase fox

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michael hoy said:
bigboss said:
New models are generally announced at CES. The next CES is from 10th to 13th Jan 2012. maybe new models wil be announced, but they're unlikely to be sold before March.

I have been thinking of changing my Denon 2500BT,
Nooooooo Michael!!

ha, anyway, how are you friend? Well, tbh i've been thinking of upgrading mine, not sure what for yet though?? Thinking of changing it in the new year.
 

michael hoy

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jase fox said:
michael hoy said:
bigboss said:
New models are generally announced at CES. The next CES is from 10th to 13th Jan 2012. maybe new models wil be announced, but they're unlikely to be sold before March.

I have been thinking of changing my Denon 2500BT,
Nooooooo Michael!!

ha, anyway, how are you friend? Well, tbh i've been thinking of upgrading mine, not sure what for yet though?? Thinking of changing it in the new year.

Hi Jase,

Nice to hear from you again and hope you and your family are well.

I am still more than happy with the 2500, but do fancy a universal player.

It will take something special to replace it though, we may be moving things around in the house and this would give me more space for equipment, I could have both players in my set up.
 

Sliced Bread

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manicm said:
...why the hell not release more blu-ray audio discs?

Yes, yes and another yes!

I've long since been saying this. I do not understand why this has not been persued...it seems so obvious to most people, but not to the 'label' companies.
 

v1c

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Sliced Bread said:
manicm said:
...why the hell not release more blu-ray audio discs?

Yes, yes and another yes!

I've long since been saying this. I do not understand why this has not been persued...it seems so obvious to most people, but not to the 'label' companies.

I suspect it's a price issue...... SACD and DVD Audio didn't take off over CD........ Blu-ray audio which i completly agree is obvious to do would do no better than SACD and DVD Audio as i would thick have a premium price over CD/Downloads. I didn't realise just how specialist SACD has become until i was shopping for some after now having a SACD capable BDP........ Roxy music Avalon £129 used !!!! alot of what interests me are over £25. No wonder it didn't take over ,it is a shame because the Dark side of the Moon SACD i have sounds fantastic on the player which is why i was searching for more.
 

v1c

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Hi Michael,

Well it's been a bit emotional really.... i was thinking Oppo 95 then realised i would only ever be using HDMI so thought Oppo 93 was just about to get one then the 55 came on the scene and basically more or less matched the Oppo and was cheaper due to no multi channel outs which again i will never use. With a 16 year history of pioneer players from Laser disc days i decided to stay loyal to the brand. Swapped out the 51FD , moved off centre speaker to a more centred postion as the 55 smaller than the 51.... recalabrated the LX71. Initital reaction was should have stuck with the 51FD didn't notice any picture difference and the sound was a bit different but couldn't decide if it was in a good way or not. Over the next couple of days did a bit more tweaking to picture and sound. I can now make out slightly more detail in the picture and a deeper colour palette has become noticable on some discs i have seen alot , for example Micheal Fassbenders Green beret in Inglourious Basterds was a different green to his uniform but i hadn't noticed by how much before it stood out but in a really good way. It shows up flaws in transfers more than the 51 did. Haven't really tried much in the way of DVD but what i have seen i'm happy with. On the sound front i've done a couple of calabrations and got it so i'm happy with it but some disc's sound better than before and some don't seem to sound as good..... haven't fully figured this out yet. Put in my SACD Dark side of the Moon and i was like WOW it was great. Then for the first time in 16 years i put in a disc and it didn't play !!!!!. I put in Planet Terror UK blu ray wouldn't get past load screen , then i put in Death Proof USA blu ray samething..... TWO DISCs in the same night.... NEVER HAPPEND BEFORE. I've contacted Pioneer and they requested i send the disc's to them which i have done so i'm expecting them to sort a firmware update at some stage for this. It has only happend on these two disc so far but strange as they worked on the 51 and a PS3. Haven't used network ,usb or 3D features yet so no comment on them.

Another little quirk is it doesn't show chapters/title on the display only hours/min/secs it's a bit weird i think they maybe working on firmware updates.

So in summation a slightly better picture just, Sound variable sometimes better sometimes not i do think it could possibly an element of dare i say it burn in. Plays a great SCAD (just a shame can't afford to buy any more LOL).Needs Firmware updates.

As it plays SACD and the 51 didn't it just about gets a pass from me but i am a self confessed Pioneer freak however it is clear to me that this is not the Pioneer of old and wouldn't unfortunately recommend getting one at the moment and feel the Oppo is probably the way i should have gone but i'll never know now so i'll be happy with what i have :)

How you getting on with the 85 compared to your 73 ?
 

michael hoy

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Hi v1c,

Thanks for the information, I am struggling to think of a player that would better my Denon 2500BT for PQ and SQ, the "slow" load times do not bother me and so far all the discs I have play.

As for the 85, this is a stunning receiver and is certainly a move up from the 72 (although that was a good amp), it makes the Apex perform very well giving an open and detailed sound.

The only gripe I have is the menu system for the HMG when streaming music, it has not been improved on since the 72.

I use my Sonos for streaming and the iPad app (excellent), I did want to stream higher res files to the 85 but the Sonos is limited.

I hope the glitches are sorted out soon for your 55.
 

v1c

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michael hoy said:
Hi v1c,

Thanks for the information, I am struggling to think of a player that would better my Denon 2500BT for PQ and SQ, the "slow" load times do not bother me and so far all the discs I have play.

As for the 85, this is a stunning receiver and is certainly a move up from the 72 (although that was a good amp), it makes the Apex perform very well giving an open and detailed sound.

The only gripe I have is the menu system for the HMG when streaming music, it has not been improved on since the 72.

I use my Sonos for streaming and the iPad app (excellent), I did want to stream higher res files to the 85 but the Sonos is limited.

I hope the glitches are sorted out soon for your 55.

You said ealier that you have demoed the Oppo 95 and were impressed however you have not brought one ! , this would suggest your Denon is still good enough for you so unless you need something more than PQ and SQ i would stick with the Denon.

Glad the 85 is a move up from the 72 as i am considering this as well but not sure if i want to take this route yet.

The 55 is starting to grow on me and i'm sure it will improve with updates. Pioneer must sort out the disc issue i have as it must play discs i put in it , so long as this happens i'll be happy with it.

I am also thinking the better the disc transfer the better the player performs just put in the remastered Aliens and the first scene with the ice/frost in the ship and on the chair looked very impressive and the sound was great so i think i may be just adjusting to some subtle difference between the players. My expectations are high and new upgrades have a harder time to impress.
 
v1c said:
You said ealier that you have demoed the Oppo 95 and were impressed however you have not brought one ! , this would suggest your Denon is still good enough for you so unless you need something more than PQ and SQ i would stick with the Denon.

michael hoy said:
I am still more than happy with the 2500, but do fancy a universal player.
 

v1c

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bigboss said:
v1c said:
You said ealier that you have demoed the Oppo 95 and were impressed however you have not brought one ! , this would suggest your Denon is still good enough for you so unless you need something more than PQ and SQ i would stick with the Denon.

michael hoy said:
I am still more than happy with the 2500, but do fancy a universal player.

The 95 is a universal player ? .... fancy one and needing one are not quite the samething.
 
v1c said:
The 95 is a universal player ? .... fancy one and needing one are not quite the samething.

Yes, the Oppo is a universal player. Who are we to argue about need vs fancy? It's the OP's choice how he wants to treat himself for Christmas. He did mention that he will still put his Denon 2500BT to use, & not sell it.
 

v1c

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bigboss said:
v1c said:
The 95 is a universal player ? .... fancy one and needing one are not quite the samething.

Yes, the Oppo is a universal player. Who are we to argue about need vs fancy? It's the OP's choice how he wants to treat himself for Christmas. He did mention that he will still put his Denon 2500BT to use, & not sell it.

I was but offering an altenative opinion.... i'm sure Michael will do as he pleases. :)
 

keiser1

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Hello Michael,

Ive been looking at upgrading my 51-FD for a while now, there's a few Denon 2500bt's popping up on E-Bay now and again but I'm unsure about buying AV goods second hand. I've not had the chance to see either the 2500Bt or the 2012UD running, so apart from the obvious one being a transport and one being universal (neither really affects me) in your oppinion which would you say is the better Blu-ray player?

Thanks.
 
Few points:

1) I think it's better to buy a brand new player with full manufacturer's warranty than a used one on EBay.

2) The 2500BT is over 3 generations old. You've got the Pioneer 51FD; you know better than others about manufacturer's sluggish support with firmware updates of older players. What's the guarantee that the manufacturer will continue to support the 2500BT?

3) I've seen both the 2500BT & 2012UD perform, albeit 3 years apart & not simultaneously. DVD upscaling in both is excellent. With regards to blu ray performance, I haven't found any difference between the PS3, Panasonic BD60 & Denon 2500BT for 1080p/24 pictures. That's the beauty of the blu ray technology. Even the 2012UD's blu ray performance is top notch.

4) The 2500BT is quite slow to load discs. The 2012UD is much faster.
 

strapped for cash

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Another factor worth considering is price. I was never in the market for a high-end player; and because I was able to pick up a second hand 2500BT cheaply I considered it a relative bargain.

Of course, I'm in the camp that states there is a discernible difference in terms of Blu-ray performance between the 2500BT and PS3. I didn't know for sure that this would be the case when buying, but thought it a worthy experiment in light of positive reviews.

The point about firmware is entirely valid. While I've had no issues playing any Blu-ray discs on the 2500BT, I have some anxieties about how much longer Denon will continue to provide firmware updates for this machine.

I also think the point about slow loading times can be overstated. OK, the 2500BT might take a minute on average to load Blu-ray discs (compared with 20-30 seconds for newer players), but by the time you've fetched yourself a drink it's ready to go.
 

michael hoy

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keiser1 said:
Hello Michael,

Ive been looking at upgrading my 51-FD for a while now, there's a few Denon 2500bt's popping up on E-Bay now and again but I'm unsure about buying AV goods second hand. I've not had the chance to see either the 2500Bt or the 2012UD running, so apart from the obvious one being a transport and one being universal (neither really affects me) in your oppinion which would you say is the better Blu-ray player?

Thanks.

Hi,

I have'nt seen the 2012 perform yet. The 2500BT has and still is a fantastic player, I have not come accross any disc that will not play in all the time I have had it.
 

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