Dealers offering advice on this site.

[Bobbyhifi]

After looking through this morning's posts it strikes me that it's hard to trust dealer opinion. There are a couple who generally just disagree with each other over every point, I'm sure they know who they are, but it just makes me wonder about the rest of their advice.

They obviously have an agenda to sell product they stock, that's their job after all, so there will be bias in their recommendations - they could argue they only stock product they like but then have they heard everything? Have they got access to all product? From what I've heard from some dealers certain companies have big stock tie-ins as part of their dealer agreements so naturally these dealers would want to shift as much of that as they can... Do you all trust their opinions or take them with a pinch of salt?

 

[lindsayt]

In my experience, most dealers are decent honest people with integrity.

My favourites are the ones that specialise in 2nd hand equipment as they generally have the widest and most interesting range of stock as well as the cheapest prices. Some of their items can even be cheaper than eBay. Some of their items will be more expensive than eBay.

I think that it's only natural for all posters, including dealers, to recommend kit that they have heard and liked. After all, how much could you trust a recommendation for something that the poster has never heard?

I only trust the opinions of people with similar tastes to myself in hi-fi. And even then I don't trust them as much as I trust my own ears.

On the issue of "Have they got access to all product?" the answer is no, of course they don't.

 

[Anonymous]

obviously a degree of caution should be used when taking any advice on an Internet forum. On the whole I find that most people's intentions are well placed, if not on some occasions a bit too enthusiastic.

As far as the dealers go, yes they do have to make a living, but, I have for instance noticed that Musicraft often recommends products that that they don't even carry in stock, or were stopped being made years ago.

Just an observation.

 

[the record spot]

After all, how much could you trust a recommendation for something that the poster has never heard?

Given that the resulting presentation/sound will typically differ from one set-up to the next, you can trust a recommendation - assuming it's not making any outlandish claims - quite readily IMO.

I haven't heard most of the items I suggest, but given that I'm usually looking at what the poster's asking about or needs, then it's easy to run down the list of requirements and suggesting options that exist for a variety of products out there. I wouldn't expect people to run out and buy blind, though obviously that happens, but to do some of their own research on top of what they see on here an draw their own conclusions.

As for the OP's original dealer question, I think the guys on here are a good bunch, offering good advice and in the end, if you don't want the products they have, you can move on to find something more suitable somewhere else.

 

[Lee H]

I think it's an opinion to throw in to the mix along with everything else. If I went and visited a dealer, they're only likely to recommend an item they can get hold of, so I don't see the difference.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Hi Bobby

This isn't something I was asked to do by my boss, this is something I introduced to him, because I wanted to do it. It was something I was originally doing outside of my job - helping people make informed choices. I enjoy it. Agendas don't work on forums, it's something that becomes obvious over time, then no one trusts you.

As far as stock tie-ins etc goes, we deal with quite a large range of manufacturers. This is to try and give people a single place where they can come and hear what they want under one roof, rather than driving hundreds of miles in order to hear different products at 2 or 3 different dealers. Because of our range, particularly 2 channel products, we get people travelling to us from all over the country, even from abroad (as far as Australia) in order to listen to what we have, and because of that, we tend to be busier than many hi-fi stores, and so, our sales generally take care of what manufacturers expect from us, without the need to 'push' products on people.

Having been doing this for just over 20 years, and working for 3 or 4 different dealers, so I've heard many products, and will get involved in threads where people are asking opinions on used stuff - only yesterday I was advising someone about buying a used power amplifier. This has been a hobby of mine for over 30 years now, and I've heard a fair amount of stuff from the 80's too.

Ultimately, whether or not an individual trusts dealer's opinions is really up to them - most people will make their mind up based on advice given to other forum users.

 

[Ben K.]

I have had some good advice on here from both dealers and everyday forum members. I think dealers give good advice on lots of products they have heard. Maybe they dont advise you on every product thats available but I would rather they advised from experience rather than giving advice about equipment they haven't heard either. At the end of the day its only advice to point you in the right direction. Ultimately its up to you what you audition and buy.

In particular I have received some very good advice from David and Rick in the past. I think being dealers just means that they can give very good advice on what they sell. If these products interest you then its advice well received.

 

[plastic penguin]

After looking through this morning's posts it strikes me that it's hard to trust dealer opinion. There are a couple who generally just disagree with each other over every point, I'm sure they know who they are, but it just makes me wonder about the rest of their advice.

They obviously have an agenda to sell product they stock, that's their job after all, so there will be bias in their recommendations - they could argue they only stock product they like but then have they heard everything? Have they got access to all product? From what I've heard from some dealers certain companies have big stock tie-ins as part of their dealer agreements so naturally these dealers would want to shift as much of that as they can... Do you all trust their opinions or take them with a pinch of salt?

You need to ask yourself a couple of questions: Firstly (and ridiculously), why does their participation irritate you so much? Do they influence the way you shop for hi-fi gear?

Every business clearly needs to promote their wares, and where better to do it than a big forum such as this. I've been pretty vocal of the years about dealers on a (essentially) amateur site, but there are rules which they need to conform to (moral as well as 'House').

I've always said I'd never use a dealer on here because it goes against the "Spirit" of what the forum is all about. That said, IF I lived within the catchment of a certain dealer (and IF they carried a brand I was particularly interested in), no doubt I'll use the option of seeing what they could offer me as and when I upgraded.

The one thing that gives me the 'pip' is when a certain dealer bangs on about a certain combo, when I know damn well it is wrong.

The stark reality is dealers are allowed to give advice. Whether you listen or take in that advice is an individual one.

 

[emptage]

In my experience, most dealers are decent honest people with integrity.

My favourites are the ones that specialise in 2nd hand equipment as they generally have the widest and most interesting range of stock as well as the cheapest prices. Some of their items can even be cheaper than eBay. Some of their items will be more expensive than eBay.

I think that it's only natural for all posters, including dealers, to recommend kit that they have heard and liked. After all, how much could you trust a recommendation for something that the poster has never heard?

I only trust the opinions of people with similar tastes to myself in hi-fi. And even then I don't trust them as much as I trust my own ears.

On the issue of "Have they got access to all product?" the answer is no, of course they don't.

Which dealers offer secondhand stock please - your favourites

 

[matthewpiano]

I've got no problems with the dealer presence on this site, firstly because those who participate are largely very helpful and informative and, most importantly, because of the house rule that dictates they have to be up-front about who they are (and, consequently, about which brands they represent).

 

[Deleted member 2457]

I don't mind them being on here and I've spoken to Nick and Rick on the phone and both were very nice to me. I've also emailed David several times and he was equally as good. I've also always enjoyed reading their posts and I think it would definitely be more boring with them not on here. And I would definitely say I've learnt stuff from them on here.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Thread moderated to remove off-topic hijack attempt.

 

[lindsayt]

Which dealers offer secondhand stock please - your favourites

2ndhandhifi in Stockton.

Retro Reproduction in Edingburgh.

 

[lindsayt]

... Having been doing this for just over 20 years, and working for 3 or 4 different dealers, so I've heard many products, and will get involved in threads where people are asking opinions on used stuff - only yesterday I was advising someone about buying a used power amplifier. This has been a hobby of mine for over 30 years now, and I've heard a fair amount of stuff from the 80's too...

If I may, David, I'd like to ask you a series of questions. I'd also like to throw out these questions to any other dealers who post on this forum. Or indeed, anyone else who'd like to answer them.

The aim of these questions is to gauge the breadth of your experience on hi-fi components. To see how much experience you have of kit that isn't normally sold through UK hi-fi dealerships.

The reason for asking is that most of the dealers I've met have extensive knowledge of the kit that they've stocked, but limited or no knowledge of kit outside the dealership sphere. Which is fair enough. We can't all be experts on everything. It just helps to put into context where their advice and opinions are coming from.

Which radio broadcast record players have you heard?

Which statement direct drive Japanese turntables from the 1970's and 1980's have you heard?

Which LDR or TVC or stepped attenuator based passive pre-amps / volume controls have you heard in passive pre-amp friendly systems?

Which SET valve power amplifiers have you heard?

Which "Class A" solid state amplifiers have you heard?

Which 1930's to 1980's Bozak, Altec, JBL, EV, Klangfilm, Vitavox speakers have you heard?

Which pre 1980's cinema or theatre speakers have you heard with a hi-fi system?

Which professional active speakers have you heard?

Which field coil speakers have you heard?

And when I say heard I don't mean a few minutes at some trade show. I mean heard in your own system or in a demonstration / bake-off against known references.

 

[John Duncan]

Ooo I know this one!

Which radio broadcast record players have you heard?

None

Which statement direct drive Japanese turntables from the 1970's and 1980's have you heard?

None

Which LDR or TVC or stepped attenuator based passive pre-amps / volume controls have you heard in passive pre-amp friendly systems?

None

Which SET valve power amplifiers have you heard?

None

Which "Class A" solid state amplifiers have you heard?

Probably only the original Musical Fidelity A1.

Which 1930's to 1980's Bozak, Altec, JBL, EV, Klangfilm, Vitavox speakers have you heard?

None

Which pre 1980's cinema or theatre speakers have you heard with a hi-fi system?

None

Which professional active speakers have you heard?

Only ones that have been in studios I've worked in. Alesis and Tannoy I think. Others don't count as 'professional'




Which field coil speakers have you heard?

What's a field coil speaker?

 

[eggontoast]

I'm guessing that David will probably not answer your post and quite rightly so IMO.

The reason for asking is that most of the dealers I've met have extensive knowledge of the kit that they've stocked, but limited or no knowledge of kit outside the dealership sphere.

Is this not obvious, at the end of the day they are salesmen who are making a living they want to sell you something they stock. If I went into a BMW dealership and the salesman started talking about Mercedes that would be a little silly no !

 

[Lee H]

Crivens, nobody told me there was an entrance exam.

Question back to you. How many times on this forum have you heard someone ask for advice on which LDR or TVC or stepped attenuator based passive pre-amps / volume controls are best in passive pre-amp friendly systems?

 

[Anonymous]

Me doth think one is Inebriated by the exuberance of one,s verbosity :exmark:

 

[chebby]

Me doth think one is Inebriated by the exuberance of one,s verbosity :exmark:

This is what happens when the millionth monkey phones in sick.

 

[CnoEvil]

... Having been doing this for just over 20 years, and working for 3 or 4 different dealers, so I've heard many products, and will get involved in threads where people are asking opinions on used stuff - only yesterday I was advising someone about buying a used power amplifier. This has been a hobby of mine for over 30 years now, and I've heard a fair amount of stuff from the 80's too...

If I may, David, I'd like to ask you a series of questions. I'd also like to throw out these questions to any other dealers who post on this forum. Or indeed, anyone else who'd like to answer them.

The aim of these questions is to gauge the breadth of your experience on hi-fi components. To see how much experience you have of kit that isn't normally sold through UK hi-fi dealerships.

The reason for asking is that most of the dealers I've met have extensive knowledge of the kit that they've stocked, but limited or no knowledge of kit outside the dealership sphere. Which is fair enough. We can't all be experts on everything. It just helps to put into context where their advice and opinions are coming from.

Which radio broadcast record players have you heard?

Which statement direct drive Japanese turntables from the 1970's and 1980's have you heard?

Which LDR or TVC or stepped attenuator based passive pre-amps / volume controls have you heard in passive pre-amp friendly systems?

Which SET valve power amplifiers have you heard?

Which "Class A" solid state amplifiers have you heard?

Which 1930's to 1980's Bozak, Altec, JBL, EV, Klangfilm, Vitavox speakers have you heard?

Which pre 1980's cinema or theatre speakers have you heard with a hi-fi system?

Which professional active speakers have you heard?

Which field coil speakers have you heard?

And when I say heard I don't mean a few minutes at some trade show. I mean heard in your own system or in a demonstration / bake-off against known references.

:rofl:

It would appear the pupils are now setting the exam.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm guessing that David will probably not answer your post and quite rightly so IMO.

The reason for asking is that most of the dealers I've met have extensive knowledge of the kit that they've stocked, but limited or no knowledge of kit outside the dealership sphere.

Is this not obvious, at the end of the day they are salesmen who are making a living they want to sell you something they stock. If I went into a BMW dealership and the salesman started talking about Mercedes that would be a little silly no !

Perhaps a little off topic but if a dealer identifies himself as such I think his advice is most welcome. A mix of backgrounds is essential to any meaningful discussion IME.

 

[eggontoast]

Perhaps a little off topic but if a dealer identifies himself as such I think his advice is most welcome. A mix of backgrounds is essential to any meaningful discussion IME.

I agree with you, after all that's why you post on a forum to get a variety of opinions then go and listen to make up your own mind surely.

 

[nopiano]

I definitely value the comments from the dealers, and this forum would be the poorer without them.

Having many moons ago worked part-time in a hi-fi shop, over a period of about 12 years, I can assure you that one does, almost by osmosis, acquire an understanding of what works with what. Not to mention doing so explicitly for customers trying speakers, amps or whatever. And the countless hours we would spend out of hours or around each others houses was testimony to our innate enthisiasm for both the music and the kit. When you add the experience of hearing kit in customers houses, both what you supplied and what they already owned, you start to realise why dealers get clear views on what they like.

 

[BenLaw]

I have not heard any 1930's Klangfilm speakers.

 

[def lugs]

After looking through this morning's posts it strikes me that it's hard to trust dealer opinion. There are a couple who generally just disagree with each other over every point, I'm sure they know who they are, but it just makes me wonder about the rest of their advice.

They obviously have an agenda to sell product they stock, that's their job after all, so there will be bias in their recommendations - they could argue they only stock product they like but then have they heard everything? Have they got access to all product? From what I've heard from some dealers certain companies have big stock tie-ins as part of their dealer agreements so naturally these dealers would want to shift as much of that as they can... Do you all trust their opinions or take them with a pinch of salt?

I would argue that the dealers are giving advice based on there experience, and this will probably be based around the brands and stock that they sell. They are therefore more confident in the solutions they recommend will work together.

Disagreement will occur as always there can be more than one satifactory solution.

I also would take 'all' the opions in a forum with a pinch of salt. The majority of recommendations may be posted by people who have only read a magazine or an advert about the product in question. Then regurgitate this information as gospel.

Pre-internet days when we actually had to walk into shops to draft an opinion. I was never once mislead or came away with the 'wrong' equipment! Yes you could argue that I did have a more limited choice, and that if I had bought brand X instead of Y my listening experience may have improved. But in my opinion I have enjoyed all the hi-fi equipment I have purchased following the advice of dealers.