dali opticon 6 speakers maybe an issue

[Blacksabbath25]

hi not sure if i have an issue with my speakers ? they sound ok but i can not hear any sound coming from the ribbon twetters as they are so close to the dome twetter i have put my hand over the dome twetter so i could see if i could hear or feel anything from the ribbon part of the speaker but i can not tell if they are woring or not are you meant to feel something from them ?

 

[splasher]

I be surprised if you could feel anything. You should be able to hear the high frequencies though, like a hiss.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I be surprised if you could feel anything. You should be able to hear the high frequencies though, like a hiss.

this is the thing i can not hear a hiss sound i can only found out if i am playing music but the dome twetter is something i can hear but not the ribbion twetter is this normal ?

 

[philpot1001]

if you can effectively cover the dome tweeter, you should still be able to hear treble.....the point in having the dome and ribbon, is the ribbon takes the very high freq, the dome takes the lower - high mids (my understanding). So basically you should be able to hear the high trebles even when the dome is shut off.

If you cant hear any treble at all when the dome is covered i would suggest the ribbons arent doing there thing. Cant think of a conclusive test for this off hand though. Ill have a think.

 

[philpot1001]

best test i can come up with is select the most treble dominated CD you have.

Turn your PM8005 tone controls bass and mid, down as low as they will go. Turn the treble tone control as high as it will go......only do this tets at low volumes though.

*EDIT - i think if you unplug the bottom black and red banana plugs this would knock out the bass drivers (more effective than bass tone controls). But keep the midrange tone control turned down

Next take half a tennis ball (if you have one) and cover the dome tweeter.......listen for any treble from the ribbons.......i would also unplug one speaker and test each individually (as you can only really cover one tweeter at a time).

 

[DocG]

best test i can come up with is select the most treble dominated CD you have.

Turn your PM8005 tone controls bass and mid, down as low as they will go. Turn the treble tone control as high as it will go......only do this tets at low volumes though.

Alternatively: remove the speaker terminal bridge, and connect your amp to the HF posts only.

Next take half a tennis ball (if you have one) and cover the dome tweeter.......listen for any treble from the ribbons.......i would also unplug one speaker and test each individually (as you can only really cover one tweeter at a time).

One speaker at a time, definitely. Covering the dome tweeter with your hand should be fine; even a piece of paper would do.

Sabbath, dive into your manual. Does it state the XO frequency between tweeter and supertweeter? The speakers might be broken, but it could also be that you can't hear the supertweeter frequencies anymore. Have you ever had your ears tested (and how old are you -- excuse me for asking)?

 

[Blacksabbath25]

best test i can come up with is select the most treble dominated CD you have.

Turn your PM8005 tone controls bass and mid, down as low as they will go. Turn the treble tone control as high as it will go......only do this tets at low volumes though.

Alternatively: remove the speaker terminal bridge, and connect your amp to the HF posts only.

Next take half a tennis ball (if you have one) and cover the dome tweeter.......listen for any treble from the ribbons.......i would also unplug one speaker and test each individually (as you can only really cover one tweeter at a time).

One speaker at a time, definitely. Covering the dome tweeter with your hand should be fine; even a piece of paper would do.

Sabbath, dive into your manual. Does it state the XO frequency between tweeter and supertweeter? The speakers might be broken, but it could also be that you can't hear the supertweeter frequencies anymore. Have you ever had your ears tested (and how old are you -- excuse me for asking)?

i am 45 years old lol

 

[philpot1001]

best test i can come up with is select the most treble dominated CD you have.

Turn your PM8005 tone controls bass and mid, down as low as they will go. Turn the treble tone control as high as it will go......only do this tets at low volumes though.

Alternatively: remove the speaker terminal bridge, and connect your amp to the HF posts only.

Next take half a tennis ball (if you have one) and cover the dome tweeter.......listen for any treble from the ribbons.......i would also unplug one speaker and test each individually (as you can only really cover one tweeter at a time).

One speaker at a time, definitely. Covering the dome tweeter with your hand should be fine; even a piece of paper would do.

Sabbath, dive into your manual. Does it state the XO frequency between tweeter and supertweeter? The speakers might be broken, but it could also be that you can't hear the supertweeter frequencies anymore. Have you ever had your ears tested (and how old are you -- excuse me for asking)?

i am 45 years old lol

employ a small child to do the test for you hahahaha ;o)

 

[stevee1966]

Is it the same for both left and right speaker ?

It would be hell of a coincidence (and extremely unlucky) if both were failing.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

i tried that but nothing on both ribbons

 

[philpot1001]

OK well at least its now reduced to two options

a) the ribbons are chuffed on both speakers

b) they are producing frequencies your ears cant hear.

find out the frequency ranges for the dali ribbons, that would give us an insight into whether you should be able to hear them. Apparently the average maximum and adult can hear is circa 14 KHz ....if they are 20 KHz + from the ribbons - theres ya problem!

 

[macdiddy]

http://www.dali-speakers.com/uk/loudspeakers/opticon/opticon-6/

the specs for these speakers mention that "the ribbon tweeter features a broad frequency band and superb dispersion in the higher frequencies, Gently rolled in above 10 kHz, the ribbon reaches full contribution from 14 kHz to well beyond 30 kHz, far above the audible range."

This probably means that unless you have the hearing of a bat then most of the time you will not hear much from the ribbon tweeter.

Have you noticed this problem recently or has it been there since you purchased the speakers.

*music2*

 

[Blacksabbath25]

so its not an issue just me being old fart then ? lol and me not understanding i thought at least you would feel something from them even that i am to old to pick the ribbons up in there sound

 

[macdiddy]

a ribbon tweeter so I can't tell you how it should feel. *give_rose*

 

[philpot1001]

So basically then the ribbon tweeter is nigh on pointless? If it kicks in properly after 14 KHz, almost no adult can hear it.............and i cant imagine many children can afford a pair lol.

 

[emperor's new clothes]

Hi Blacksabbah,

Sorry that you have further issues. The ribbons on both my Opticons and Ikons work just fine. Obvious first:

Ribbons tend to have a very wide soundstage but very limited verticaly, so ears must be at tweeter level.

Compressed files, sadly including some CDs, will have little or no content >14khz, so try a SACD if possible, which certainly does. If not, CD (2013 best) Gold Dust Woman by Fleetwood Mac has HF treble which brings the ribbons into play. BluRay HD Audio has plenty of audible content>14KHz My ears are a lot older than yours, thoroughly tested bi-annually over decades for my CAA Class 1 Medical.

If still no joy, could they have been damaged with all the cable swapping during the bi amp experiment? All cable changes made with the power to both amps off, not just standby?

It is very unlikely that they would be faulty ex factory as every driver is tested pre assembly and every completed speaker tested again. Good luck and hope you solve it before the new amp arrives.

 

[Blackdawn]

As long as the music sounds good, I wouldn't worry too much. If you think the high frequencies are missing you could call the dealer you bought them from and let them know the situation. Dali produces plenty of speakers without ribbons as well. e.g. Zensors, Lektors, Opticon 1 and 2, Rubicon 2 and Epicon 2.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Hi Blacksabbah,

Sorry that you have further issues. The ribbons on both my Opticons and Ikons work just fine. Obvious first:

Ribbons tend to have a very wide soundstage but very limited verticaly, so ears must be at tweeter level.

Compressed files, sadly including some CDs, will have little or no content >14khz, so try a SACD if possible, which certainly does. If not, CD (2013 best) Gold Dust Woman by Fleetwood Mac has HF treble which brings the ribbons into play. BluRay HD Audio has plenty of audible content>14KHz My ears are a lot older than yours, thoroughly tested bi-annually over decades for my CAA Class 1 Medical.

If still no joy, could they have been damaged with all the cable swapping during the bi amp experiment? All cable changes made with the power to both amps off, not just standby?

It is very unlikely that they would be faulty ex factory as every driver is tested pre assembly and every completed speaker tested again. Good luck and hope you solve it before the new amp arrives.

do you hear sound out of yours ? maybe it is something my ears can not pick up anymore the speakers sound ok . i shut the amp down when changing cables around and i just put dire straits on which is the only SACD i have still nothing i just can not tell if they are working or not i thought my hearing was ok but not like a bats

 

[emperor's new clothes]

At my age, I certainly don't claim to have the hearing of a bat either and long term exposure to high ambient aircraft noise and rock music have probably taken their toll. It is difficult to quantify how much makes it to the ribbon frequencies and is a seamless transition. listening to Beck, for example, on BluRay HD audio, there is a lot of HF audible that is not there when streaming a MP3 rip or Apple music version of same album. It is more apparant on some classical where there is better definition of triangles etc. The splash cymbals on BIA should sound very clear and distinct. I agree with others that I doubt if you can feel ribbons and probably best to avoid touching them.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

At my age, I certainly don't claim to have the hearing of a bat either and long term exposure to high ambient aircraft noise and rock music have probably taken their toll. It is difficult to quantify how much makes it to the ribbon frequencies and is a seamless transition. listening to Beck, for example, on BluRay HD audio, there is a lot of HF audible that is not there when streaming a MP3 rip or Apple music version of same album. It is more apparant on some classical where there is better definition of triangles etc. The splash cymbals on BIA should sound very clear and distinct. I agree with others that I doubt if you can feel ribbons and probably best to avoid touching them.

i think its a hearing thing like the rest say as you get older you lose abit of the low stuff but thanks for the info

 

[emperor's new clothes]

Hi Philpot,

Guess no two people will have the same senses, either the receptors in the ear or the brain that does the processing. Knowing little about the subject, I found this research from a drummer who seems to know a bit about the acoustic properties of cymbals. The ribbon tweeters are worthwhile as he maintains that even >20khz might not be heard but can be felt. All a matter of taste - i don't like harsh or bright and the Dalis beat the opposition at their price point, to my ears.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66957

 

[philpot1001]

Hi Philpot,

Guess no two people will have the same senses, either the receptors in the ear or the brain that does the processing. Knowing little about the subject, I found this research from a drummer who seems to know a bit about the acoustic properties of cymbals. The ribbon tweeters are worthwhile as he maintains that even >20khz might not be heard but can be felt. All a matter of taste - i don't like harsh or bright and the Dalis beat the opposition at their price point, to my ears.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66957

very possibly. TBH it would be difficult to say either way without listening to the Opticons with ribbons and disabling them. I did listen to a pair while in Richer sounds the other weekend. TBH i didnt really notice anything about the treble end, i personally found them a little too smooth at the midrange for my tastes - althought it was a very quick off the cuff audition - with a different amp to our marantz in a small room. So i havent discounted them fully yet, however i think the KEF R500 / R700 have the upper hand in my lists at present.

 

[Vladimir]

I'm 32 and I hear nothing above 14.5kHz. Super tweeters are wasted on me.

 

[MajorFubar]

To be fair if all they produce is audio above 15kHz they're probably going to be wasted on anyone over 30 or anyone under 30 who listens to digital audio at CD quality or less. I'll stop short of saying "ergo they're a pointles gimmick" because my experience of them is zero...

 

[philpot1001]

To be fair if all they produce is audio above 15kHz they're probably going to be wasted on anyone over 30 or anyone under 30 who listens to digital audio at CD quality or less. I'll stop short of saying "ergo they're a pointles gimmick" because my experience of them is zero...

also these aren't the only speakers "guilty" of going well over 15KHz, it's not the reserve of ribbon tweeters! plenty quote responses over 30 KHz. Probably a marketing gimmick as much as anything in my opinion