Dali Ikon 1 v Dali Lektor 2

[admin_exported]

Hello All,

After a previous thread I’d come to the conclusion that the Dali Lektor 2’s are the speakers I want (and I still want them), but I’m curious about the Ikon 1’s (these are not the MK2 version).

I have a Marantz pm6003 amp and was wondering would I gain anything with the Ikon 1’s over the Lektor 2’s, will the extra I pay be worthwhile.? I’m presuming they are not in the budget class like the Lektors are and so should be a step up? Or are these speakers sonically similar?

Thanks,

AzurBob.

 

[StevenKay]

AzurBob

Hi

I had a similar question. Actually I did audition Marantz PM6003 with both Dali Lektor 2' as well and and Ikon 1's recently.

Without doubt Ikon 1's did sound a bit better overall - that is more detailed and natural....

But Lektor 2's did not come across as being too bad in comaprasion taking into account their lower price.

 

[Cypher]

I'm curious how these sound.......................

 

[matthewpiano]

I tried a pair of Ikon 1s for a few days last year and found them to be a little on the bright side compared to the Lektors. More detail, yes, but that hybrid tweeter does veer towards brightness, particularly on the more bass-light Ikon 1s. The Ikons are quite particular about positioning too - they need to be right up against the rear wall facing straight ahead.

 

[the record spot]

Tell you what Bob, if it was a straight shootout between the Ikon's or the Mission 751s, I'd look to save myself about £300 off the list price and get the 751s - they're that good, they're probably not giving anything away to the Dalis as their original list price (£300 or so in the early 1990s) would see them up against £500 standmounts just now. That you can frequently snag a pair in excellent nick is just another tick in the box.

And don't be put off by metal / mesh dome tweeters. A lot of misinformation surrounds these with the allegations typically being that they're too bright. Nothing is further from the truth. I've always had Missions and the original 75 series implemented this type of tweeter with something approaching near perfection to my ears. Buy with confidence.

 

[matthewpiano]

Completely agree with RS. Metal/mesh dome tweeters per se aren't a problem, it is all down to how they are executed. Mission did a superb job with their implementation in the 75 series and the 751s have real clarity in the treble frequencies without ever descending into harshness or splashiness.

I'd pick the 751s over the Ikon 1s - a better all rounder IMO. The real bargain of the Dali range is the Lektor 2s.

 

[Anonymous]

Hello All,

Stevenkay & mathewpiano:

Isn’t life one big compromise? I read Steve’s assessment and think that’s what I want to hear, right then I could pull the trigger on these.

And below comes Mathews assessment, good speakers but move towards brightness. These are two genuine and well articulated opinions, that I value.

The record spot & mathewpiano:

The reason I’ve looked at the Ikon 1’s is that was hoping to move away from the budget end I know of someone local who’s letting a pair go for about the £200 - £170 mark, worth a punt me thought!

I’ve been looking out for these 751’s but alas no sign of them, however there are 761i’s, 760i’s and 750’s aplenty, are these any good?

 

[the record spot]

Well, of the other Missions you mention, the 750LE (Limited Edition) which came out in the mid-90s was apparently very good. Think it clocked in around the £400 mark but can't quite recall. The others are earlier models and budget end. The 90s were the really Mission's "golden era" with the 75 series particularly, but also the 73 range. The 733i floorstander which I had for about a decade you can grab for about £50 nowadays. It doesn't quite have the same sense of scale as the 752, rather it gives you everything in a slightly narrower frame of reference. The 731 was the standmount version and again was very decent for the money.

However, if you were looking at that range (the 73) I'd probably suggest you look at the Lektor 2 or the likes of the superb Q Acoustics range. The 2020 for instance seems to perform way above what the price suggests.

 

[Cold Roses]

In case you haven't seen, Sevenoaks hifi in Brighton have specials on the Dali Ikon 1s (£299) and Dali Ikon 2s (£399): http://www.sevenoakssoundandvision.co.uk/store/southeast/brighton/3442/content.aspx

 

[Anonymous]

I use Mk1 Ikon 1's with a pm6003. Auditioned them with the Lektor 2 and 3 and there was no comparison. Much more detailed and much better mid-range. A recommended combination.

 

[Anonymous]

Hello All,

Thanks for your replies.

I like the look of the Mission 751’s, but I’ve noticed one thing about selling second had speakers in general and it is that most of the people who sell them aren’t prepared to package and post them, they nearly all seem to want pick up only. And that’s if the speakers you want are available.

The Qaud 11L2 or 12L2 have had some decent reviews and are regarded as detailed and warmish – there on the edge of my radar at the moment.

The record spot:

Q acoustics 2020 are very nice sounding speakers (I’ve heard them), but they’ve got no bass extension (frequency response is poor 64hz-).

Cold roses:

Thanks!

GForce1:

Do you find them a bright sometimes? How did the bass compare to the Lektor 1 & 2’s?

 

[Anonymous]

When I initially sought advice I was warned that it might be a bright; but to me they are most definatley not. The Marantz and the Ikon's make a superb match.

I listened to quite a few combinations and the Ikon 1's were, to me, the best match.

Where they do lack is in the bass deparment; it's not going to rock your room. However the bass they produce is so much more taught that that produced by say the Lektor 2's it is well worth the sacrifice. I selected them as their superior mid-range and treble made for a much more enjoyable listen. My conclusion was that the only way to better them, with the Marantz, would be the Ikon 2's or 6's (though that might have meant a pm7003).

They are also very well put together, and unlike many speakers assembled in Europe.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks GForce,

This is a difficult one for me, I’ve been suffering from brightness. I’ve currently got Wharfedale 9.1s and I’ve read a review that stated they have a “hard edged glare” and few people have said that also (and some have said they haven’t!), it’s all being fed by a Asus Xonar D1 soundcard which I suspect is also guilty. As soon as I can I will be dumping the soundcard for a dac and this teamed with the amp and good speakers should do the trick, although as you can see I’m looking to avoid any brightness.

The reviews have all praised them but mentioned some potential brightness that mainly shows itself with certain material, their big brothers the Mentor 1’s have had similar reviews(they both have the same twin treble). I was minutes away from pulling the trigger on the lektor 2’s, then I came across these, Its well and truly turned into a 50/50. The speakers sound a class above the Lektors.

 

[plastic penguin]

TBH, the only way you'll know is to listen to various pairs yourself. Thinking about whether "these" speakers or "those" is only going to confuse rather than solve. Richer Sounds tend to stock a good range of speakers, especially budget end, and I think this route is the sensible option.

This maybe worth investigating: http://www.audiot.co.uk/products/quad-12l2-2335.aspx

 

[DIB]

TBH, the only way you'll know is to listen to various pairs yourself. Thinking about whether "these" speakers or "those" is only going to confuse rather than solve. Richer Sounds tend to stock a good range of speakers, especially budget end, and I think this route is the sensible option. This maybe worth investigating: http://www.audiot.co.uk/products/quad-12l2-2335.aspx

+1 for the Quad 12L2

On a previous system I had a pair hooked up to firstly a PM6002 and then a PM7001. I found them to be a very good match. Excellent speakers, especially at that price from Audio-T. Plus of course the Quad finish is exceptional for the money, they look fab.

.

 

[StevenKay]

AzurBob

Hi

So are you now close to finalizing the Speakers? Good luck!

 

[Anonymous]

Hello All,

Sorry for lateness of my reply, I’ve been a bit busy today.

There’s been about of an about face on the speakers, please read on.

Plastic penguin:

You’re right it’s always best to go and listen, as I did with the amp (pm6003) I’ve just bought. The problem with speakers is that I’d have to travel to many different places to review them, I’m self employed and extremely busy lately and just can’t do it at the moment.

And that’s why I’ve bought some off ebay today.

Dib & Stevenkay:

It was narrowed down to three contenders: Lektor 2’s, Ikon 1’s or 12L2’s and I nearly pulled the trigger on each one over the weekend. The trigger was never pulled because I’m fairly certain this brightness problem will not go away completely with new speakers due to the my pc soundcard which I also suspect is torpedoing my enjoyment. The soundcard will have to go and the only thing I can replace it with is a dac (the Beresford 7520 seg to be precise and to do this I need to divert cash from the speakers.

And that’s when everything fell into place, Mathewpiano and The news spot have been urging me to try a pair of Mission 751’s and has luck would have it (I hope they’ll be pleased to hear) I’ve just bought a pair of 751 Freedoms for £80.

I can’t lose because these speakers don’t stay on the shelf for long and there’s a good chance I’ll get my money back if I don’t like them. I’ve only got one concern about them and it’s the bass response doesn’t go as low as I’d like, but I’m going to keep and open mind and accept there aren’t many who have a bad word to say about them.

I’ll also try to and see if I can get a trial period with the dac.

 

[plastic penguin]

Nice one - not heard these Missions but posters on here, especially The Record Spot and Matthew, rave about them. Interesting to see whether that cures the brightness. Keep us informed.

Good luck.

 

[the record spot]

Good shout Bob, the difference between the Freedom and the original model was the inverted tweeter arrangement with it sitting beneath the bass driver. Mission also employed a silk dome tweeter in place of the metal dome version in the original 75 series. Hope you like them and both models were very highly regarded. Let us know how you get on. The 751 Freedom was around £400, so £80's a bit of a steal.

 

[matthewpiano]

Great move and, as you say, in the unlikely event that you don't like them, you'll easily get your money back. I've not heard the Freedom version but I have heard plenty of Mission silk-dome tweeters and they have never disappointed me. Mission seem to be very good at designing and making quality drive units whatever the materials. Please do keep us posted on your thoughts once you get them up and running.

RS - The original 751s have the inverted driver arrangement as well.

 

[plastic penguin]

Great move and, as you say, in the unlikely event that you don't like them, you'll easily get your money back. I've not heard the Freedom version but I have heard plenty of Mission silk-dome tweeters and they have never disappointed me. Mission seem to be very good at designing and making quality drive units whatever the materials. Please do keep us posted on your thoughts once you get them up and running.

RS - The original 751s have the inverted driver arrangement as well.

Matthew or RS - what [modern]speaker would you compare them to or do they better?

 

[matthewpiano]

Great move and, as you say, in the unlikely event that you don't like them, you'll easily get your money back. I've not heard the Freedom version but I have heard plenty of Mission silk-dome tweeters and they have never disappointed me. Mission seem to be very good at designing and making quality drive units whatever the materials. Please do keep us posted on your thoughts once you get them up and running.

RS - The original 751s have the inverted driver arrangement as well.

Matthew or RS - what [modern]speaker would you compare them to or do they better?

Ooh, that is an interesting question PP!

I've compared them directly with my pair of Quad 11Ls and they are much cleaner sounding. The Quads can sound a bit veiled, as if they are playing behind a curtain, whereas the Missions have spades of clarity whilst retaining real atmosphere and just the right amount of warmth.

I'd place them above the Monitor Audio RX1 and RX2 because of their superior balance and more open soundstaging.

They exhibit some of the qualities of the PMC DB1i - clarity, soundstaging precision, ability to cope with big textures and dynamic swings - but they don't quite have the same sense of air as the PMCs or the same 'impressive-for-their-size' bass performance (although the 751s aren't overly light sounding by any means). Overall I'd say something like the PMCs would be the minimum worthwhile upgrade from the 751s.

From the speakers I've heard I'd place the 751s at the sort of Dynaudio DM2/6 level. They are much better than the current Mission 792 standmounters (which I've had) and they are more involving than the Mordaunt-Short Mezzo 2, which can sound a bit 'white' and passionless at times. In many ways they are on a fairly equal footing with the KEF Q300s (which I've had) but they are better at creating an atmosphere and pulling you into the music. Ironically given the KEF Uni-Q arrangement, the Missions soundstage with more rock-solid stability.

Of course, this is all only my opinion. I think that what the 751s combine so well is a heavy and well braced cabinet with superior quality drive units to become more than the sum of their parts. They are not the only over-performing affordable speaker out there on the 2nd hand market and I'd talk about the Mordaunt-Short MS20i Pearl in a similar breath. In the same way that the 751s outperform Mission's current offerings, the Pearls outclass the current MS Aviano and Mezzo ranges with equal comfort.

Of course, with both the 751s and the MS Pearls, we are talking about speakers created by top-class people - Henry Azima and Robin Marshall respectively - and I think this standard of design and engineering is what makes them so special.

 

[plastic penguin]

Great move and, as you say, in the unlikely event that you don't like them, you'll easily get your money back. I've not heard the Freedom version but I have heard plenty of Mission silk-dome tweeters and they have never disappointed me. Mission seem to be very good at designing and making quality drive units whatever the materials. Please do keep us posted on your thoughts once you get them up and running.

RS - The original 751s have the inverted driver arrangement as well.

Matthew or RS - what [modern]speaker would you compare them to or do they better?

Ooh, that is an interesting question PP!

I've compared them directly with my pair of Quad 11Ls and they are much cleaner sounding. The Quads can sound a bit veiled, as if they are playing behind a curtain, whereas the Missions have spades of clarity whilst retaining real atmosphere and just the right amount of warmth.

I'd place them above the Monitor Audio RX1 and RX2 because of their superior balance and more open soundstaging.

They exhibit some of the qualities of the PMC DB1i - clarity, soundstaging precision, ability to cope with big textures and dynamic swings - but they don't quite have the same sense of air as the PMCs or the same 'impressive-for-their-size' bass performance (although the 751s aren't overly light sounding by any means). Overall I'd say something like the PMCs would be the minimum worthwhile upgrade from the 751s.

From the speakers I've heard I'd place the 751s at the sort of Dynaudio DM2/6 level. They are much better than the current Mission 792 standmounters (which I've had) and they are more involving than the Mordaunt-Short Mezzo 2, which can sound a bit 'white' and passionless at times. In many ways they are on a fairly equal footing with the KEF Q300s (which I've had) but they are better at creating an atmosphere and pulling you into the music. Ironically given the KEF Uni-Q arrangement, the Missions soundstage with more rock-solid stability.

Of course, this is all only my opinion. I think that what the 751s combine so well is a heavy and well braced cabinet with superior quality drive units to become more than the sum of their parts. They are not the only over-performing affordable speaker out there on the 2nd hand market and I'd talk about the Mordaunt-Short MS20i Pearl in a similar breath. In the same way that the 751s outperform Mission's current offerings, the Pearls outclass the current MS Aviano and Mezzo ranges with equal comfort.

Of course, with both the 751s and the MS Pearls, we are talking about speakers created by top-class people - Henry Azima and Robin Marshall respectively - and I think this standard of design and engineering is what makes them so special.

Thanks, Matthew. Your opinion [and RS's] is appreciated as against someone who's 'opinionated', if you catch my drift. Interesting that you rate them, tugging at the heels of the PMCs. Cheers.

 

[matthewpiano]

PP - Don't get me wrong, I'd swap them for a pair of DB1i without hesitation. The PMCs are undoubtedly better but obviously much more expensive than any of the other speakers mentioned in my reply.

The other speakers I forgot to mention were the Rega RS1s. I've heard these a couple of times and been very impressed. I feel they shoot well above their price and I'm not sure what the outcome would be between these and the 751s.

I think the key thing for anyone reading my replies is to remember that I don't go for the big, bass-dominated sound that seems to be popular with some speaker designers at the moment. I find the MA RX standmounts too bassy and felt the same about the B&W 686s I had. I like a more natural, integrated and above all balanced sound and that doesn't suit everyone.

Listening to 'Hail To The Thief' by Radiohead now (day off today) and it sounds superb.

 

[plastic penguin]

PP - Don't get me wrong, I'd swap them for a pair of DB1i without hesitation. The PMCs are undoubtedly better but obviously much more expensive than any of the other speakers mentioned in my reply.

The other speakers I forgot to mention were the Rega RS1s. I've heard these a couple of times and been very impressed. I feel they shoot well above their price and I'm not sure what the outcome would be between these and the 751s.

I think the key thing for anyone reading my replies is to remember that I don't go for the big, bass-dominated sound that seems to be popular with some speaker designers at the moment. I find the MA RX standmounts too bassy and felt the same about the B&W 686s I had. I like a more natural, integrated and above all balanced sound and that doesn't suit everyone.

Listening to 'Hail To The Thief' by Radiohead now (day off today) and it sounds superb.

Fully understand - just mentioning the Missions or comparing them to PMCs is a good endorsement. Like you I'm not a basshead (sounds strange given I have RS6s) - the overall sonic picture is far more important than having a speaker with seismic bass levels.