DAC/Intergrated Amp combo advice

Narbooty

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Alright everybody, I've been diving into this for almost two weeks now and it's starting to become unhealthy at this point(I tend to push the limits of obsession if I don't check myself). So in an effort to save my sanity, I have decided to solicit some help/input on the subject. I have found this forum to contain posters with that rare mix of both quality experience/knowledge and open mindedness(low bias) so I am confident I will get some helpful information.

With all that said: I am looking to purchase a DAC and integrated amplifier(stereo), and I am looking to do it for under 500 USD. I am willing to push it as high as 650 USD or so, but for that it really needs to represent significant value. I will be using my laptop as my primary multimedia hub for the next few years, as I will likely being moving around as many as 6 or more times a year.

Absolute requirements are USB input for the DAC and amplified headphone jack. Other than that, all emphasis is purely on sound quality. Ideally there would be a subwoofer output on the amp, but it is not a dealbreaker without it. All other features would really only come into play in a situation where everything else is too close to call.

Where I am really running into problem in this process is whether or not to go with a separate DAC. All else being equal, I would prefer a portable DAC with built in headphone amp for flexibility to use while commuting/traveling, but I am not sure that is going to be feasible at my price point if overall sound quality while at my desk is the priority.

At the moment, the front runner is the NAD D 3020. By most accounts it is a fabulous unit that meets my requirements(and bestbuy sells it, I get a very significant discount there so I will come in under budget), but the quality of the DAC has been questioned by many people.

The TEAC np-h750 is interesting on paper now that it is only 400 USD, but the lack of reviews(both professional, and customer) seems rather suspicious. If anyone can lend an opinion here specifically, it would be quite helpful. My gut tells me overall performance would still go to the D 3020 and that the NP-H750 is still more about all of the bells and whistles even at the reduced price.

If the Marantz PM6005 only had a USB input, it would make the list as well since I could likely get it from Bestbuy at a significant discount.

On the separate DAC front I run into way more problems. There are just so many options its daunting. In the highly portable camp is the Meridian Explorer. As far as I have seen at this point it seems to be the highest rated in sound quality that I could realistically afford and still have money left in my budget for an amp of any kind. My other concern is that, while it might be considered great sound quality for its class, it might not sound as good compared to some of the similarly priced desktop units(I mean how could it?) If there is a significant performance drop off from this to a desktop unit(with more inputs/features as well), I would rather go with the desktop unit and give up the portability.

Yikes, this is already probably too long as it is so I'll leave it here by saying that any opinions on my specific questions above would be very much appreciated, and any suggestions for combonations of separate DAC and integrated amplifiers would also be very helpful! Thank you for even reading this, this process is really driving me nuts.
 

MaxD

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Alternative to NAD D 3020:

rotel RA-10 class A/B integrated amp + Dragonfly 1.2 version portable USB DAC with sharedheadphone amp/output. I means you can use it with your headphones also without your amp.

Related with the D 3020 DAC who said isn't good? I just said ESS Sabre solutions like the Dragonfly are better then I still think D 3020 integrated DAC could be enough for many situations and Ed it for you too considering his indipendent headphone dedicated amplifier.
 

Leeps

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If your primary consideration is sound quality, then much will depend on your choice of speakers and whether the sound signature of amp & speakers complement one another or aggravate any weaknesses.

I've not listened to the NAD, but I understand it has a fairly relaxed presentation which might mean you need fairly fast snappy speakers. Unless you already have speakers?
 

Narbooty

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Thanks for the reply! To start, I should not have phrased my comment about the D 3020 DAC the way that I did. I should have said something like "many others have implied that, while it is a decent DAC, you can do better."

That leads perfectly into the Dragonfly 1.2 DAC though. It seems to be an outstanding product for its price, and I have strongly been considering it as well. I had mentioned the Meridian Explorer in my first post, which I have seen favorably reviewed, but do you think it makes a significant difference in practice? If not, it would definitely be nice to free up a significant amount of money to spend on an amp.

I'm still very curious to hear opinions on the more portable usb powered DAC's and the "desktop" ac powered ones. While the USB powered options are a little more convenient, can they really compete with the ac powered bulkier units purely on sound quality? I also didn't realize this, but it seems the units like the Dragonfly aren't even compatible with phones/tablets which kind of limits any added value.
 

Narbooty

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Thanks as well Leeps. As far as speakers go, I'll have a few different sets to borrow from my brother in the meantime until I work out an ideal pair to purchase later. Given that, I'm really trying to focus on the best DAC/AMP combo to start since I think that will put me in the best place in the meantime.
 

Narbooty

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I'm starting to wonder if I am placing too much emphasis on the DAC in general? How likely is it to be the sound quality bottleneck in an amp/speaker combo that is otherwise in the $1000 range? Assuming the source is not the bottleneck, of course.
 

MaxD

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Narbooty said:
I'm starting to wonder if I am placing too much emphasis on the DAC in general? How likely is it to be the sound quality bottleneck in an amp/speaker combo that is otherwise in the $1000 range? Assuming the source is not the bottleneck, of course.

Well, believe me. you do not need a $ 5000 DAC in any case, IMHO. With your combo $ 1000, it will be useless to spend more than, I say, $ 250 for a DAC. I don't know how much you value Bluetooth, then with the $ 500 NAD D 3020 you got a pretty decent DAC, a top class bluetooth (ApTX codec), then you still need ApTX source and (stupid enough like something in Apple world) Mac computers got ApTX, but NOT iPAD and iPhone.

There is also the option of Rotel RA-12: it as an acceptable integrated DAC, it has all digital inputs in the NAD too, it got nominally more power and it doesn't have Bluetooth.

You also got the option to buy something different than Dragonfly with Rotel RA-10. If you want to stay in the reasonable priced products, the best is, IMHO (I got it and sell it when I bought the D 3020), the Arcam iRdac. It could be interesting if you want more than the simple USB input in Dragonfly 1.2, then it is less portable.
 

Narbooty

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The Arcan iRdac seems pretty stellar by all accounts, but sadly double the price of what I should realistically spend sadly. It also appears that the Rotel RA-12 doesn't have a USB input for the DAC. Bummer.

My phone does support ApTX bluetooth so that is a nice bonus in the D 3020, but not a game changer. Along those lines, I stumbled across the TEAC AI-301DA(also has ApTX bluetooth) that was apparently just released. Once again, I can't find any reviews on it, but at least in this case it makes some sense because it just came out. People seem to speak favorably about the TEAC DAC's so it seems promising if the amp is any good. Would love to hear some feedback on that. On paper, it seems to stack up favorably against the NP-H750(less power, but cleaner).
 

Narbooty

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Well I broke down and got a dragonfly on a big discount with a 45 days return policy :)

Seems to perform as promised so I will likely keep it since it frees a lot more flexibility for me in the amp department. It seems to me that improvements in DAC's are being made at a much faster rate than amps(side features are the bigger changes in the amps, not as much sound quality) so putting more emphasis on the amp not and upgrading DAC later seems a better spend.
 

MaxD

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Narbooty said:
Well I broke down and got a dragonfly on a big discount with a 45 days return policy :)

Seems to perform as promised so I will likely keep it since it frees a lot more flexibility for me in the amp department. It seems to me that improvements in DAC's are being made at a much faster rate than amps(side features are the bigger changes in the amps, not as much sound quality) so putting more emphasis on the amp not and upgrading DAC later seems a better spend.

Well, yepperz, then if we want just put it simple, DAC is just a much better sound card compared to the sound card on board in even modern pcs, Apple included. Nothing so special. And for a chip we should say they get big money. I'm sure for unit - if we consider just Dragonfly chip called ESS Sabre, this chip got a price a lot low (one tenth of the total price of DAC?) compared to the total price of DAC. I think this DAC market offer a lot of margins for company producing it.

PS: Be a good son, Buy one of this things for your poor daddy listen sad audio files on his notebook, probably digitally to analog converted via the integrated poor sound card of his pc. Yepz, he is old, then it shouldn't mean he have to listen c r a p after a life with good vinyls even if he say it is ok :)
 

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