Just wanted to know if i need to get a DAC , i use denon 1930 for films and music going into yamaha 763 av, feed by hdmi, thanks
DAC ( do i need one?)
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You don't need an external DAC, but yes by adding the DM or the Beresford you will hear improvements.
Thanks, is the improvment enough to justify the price, also would it be best to channel all the sound into the dac, sky hd ,etc before going into the av.?
I would certainly say it would be worth the cash, but what is good sound worth? You already have the DVD player, by adding the Beresford which will cost you around £130 you are looking at the equivalence of a CD player around the £400 to £500 mark. The difference would be more effective if you had a 2 channel amp but I think the Yamaha will be more than good enough to give you a deeper insight into the music.
DAC's only output in 2 channel, so no you should continue to feed your Sky HD straight to the Yamaha.
DAC's only output in 2 channel, so no you should continue to feed your Sky HD straight to the Yamaha.
Thank you for your advice, i think i will get one, in the future i want to get marantz 6002 cd ,6002 amp, will the dac be good for that system as well ?
I've heard the set up many times but never with an external DAC. The 6002 is a very good CD player but my reckoning would be that both of these DACs would improve it particularly the DM, especially seeing as how the matching amp is equally as good.ÿ
But I have to question whether you should aim to buy those first and then get a Beresford or DM on a home trial period to see if you think it is worth the money before you spend it.ÿ
But I have to question whether you should aim to buy those first and then get a Beresford or DM on a home trial period to see if you think it is worth the money before you spend it.ÿ
nick46:Just wanted to know if i need to get a DAC , i use denon 1930 for films and music going into yamaha 763 av, feed by hdmi, thanks
With your current set-up it will be of no benefit whatsoever for movies, and only of possible advantage for music from CD if you take a separate digital feed out from the DVD player into the DAC, and then use an analogue connection into the receiver.
However, I'm not sure this receiver has a pure analogue pass-through, even with the Pure Direct function in operation, so I think the sound input via analogue sockets is going through digital to analogue and analogue to digital conversion, which would negate the use of the DAC .
And that's without considering the limitations of the DVD/CD combination drive in the Denon as a music-playing machine.
IMHO you'd do better to scrub the DAC idea, and go straight to buying the Marantz player, for now fed digitally into the Yamaha.
I'm confident that will give you the greatest gains for now.
With your current set-up it will be of no benefit whatsoever for movies, and only of possible advantage for music from CD if you take a separate digital feed out from the DVD player into the DAC, and then use an analogue connection into the receiver.
However, I'm not sure this receiver has a pure analogue pass-through, even with the Pure Direct function in operation, so I think the sound input via analogue sockets is going through digital to analogue and analogue to digital conversion, which would negate the use of the DAC .
And that's without considering the limitations of the DVD/CD combination drive in the Denon as a music-playing machine.
IMHO you'd do better to scrub the DAC idea, and go straight to buying the Marantz player, for now fed digitally into the Yamaha.
I'm confident that will give you the greatest gains for now.
You can't argue with that if Andrews assumptions are correct. I assumed the opposite, the receiver would have analogue pass through.
Andrew Everard:
And that's without considering the limitations of the DVD/CD combination drive in the Denon as a music-playing machine.
But surely this is one of the key points of adding a DAC in this kind of set up?ÿ
And that's without considering the limitations of the DVD/CD combination drive in the Denon as a music-playing machine.
But surely this is one of the key points of adding a DAC in this kind of set up?ÿ
Gerrardasnails
Well-known member
Andrew Everard:
nick46:Just wanted to know if i need to get a DAC , i use denon 1930 for films and music going into yamaha 763 av, feed by hdmi, thanks
With your current set-up it will be of no benefit whatsoever for movies, and only of possible advantage for music from CD if you take a separate digital feed out from the DVD player into the DAC, and then use an analogue connection into the receiver.
However, I'm not sure this receiver has a pure analogue pass-through, even with the Pure Direct function in operation, so I think the sound input via analogue sockets is going through digital to analogue and analogue to digital conversion, which would negate the use of the DAC .
And that's without considering the limitations of the DVD/CD combination drive in the Denon as a music-playing machine.
IMHO you'd do better to scrub the DAC idea, and go straight to buying the Marantz player, for now fed digitally into the Yamaha.
I'm confident that will give you the greatest gains for now.
I'm going against the master here! I agree with Andrew about the receiver not being ideal. What I would do is scrap the idea of the Marantz 6002s and get a better amp and add the DAC to the equation. Something like the PM7001ki, CA 740A, Denon PMA-1500AE with the dvd player working as transport to the DAC. That would sound very nice.
nick46:Just wanted to know if i need to get a DAC , i use denon 1930 for films and music going into yamaha 763 av, feed by hdmi, thanks
With your current set-up it will be of no benefit whatsoever for movies, and only of possible advantage for music from CD if you take a separate digital feed out from the DVD player into the DAC, and then use an analogue connection into the receiver.
However, I'm not sure this receiver has a pure analogue pass-through, even with the Pure Direct function in operation, so I think the sound input via analogue sockets is going through digital to analogue and analogue to digital conversion, which would negate the use of the DAC .
And that's without considering the limitations of the DVD/CD combination drive in the Denon as a music-playing machine.
IMHO you'd do better to scrub the DAC idea, and go straight to buying the Marantz player, for now fed digitally into the Yamaha.
I'm confident that will give you the greatest gains for now.
I'm going against the master here! I agree with Andrew about the receiver not being ideal. What I would do is scrap the idea of the Marantz 6002s and get a better amp and add the DAC to the equation. Something like the PM7001ki, CA 740A, Denon PMA-1500AE with the dvd player working as transport to the DAC. That would sound very nice.
I agree with Gerrard actually, scrap the CD player idea and spend more on an amp with an external DAC.
So in theory you could buy a cheaper cd player, a better quality amp add a DAC and have a good system, for cheaper .
All a CD player is is a transport a DAC and a clock. The DAC is what gives the CD player the majority of it's character and detail. The DAC a DM standard would be found in a CD player around £4-600.
I have had my £700 Benchmark DAC working with a £40 DVD player and it sounds every bit as good as certain CD players well over a grand.ÿ
I have had my £700 Benchmark DAC working with a £40 DVD player and it sounds every bit as good as certain CD players well over a grand.ÿ
Thats really interesting, you would of thought that this would effect the sale of cd players, also do DACs vary a lot in sound quality depending on which one you buy.
Yes there is a review on this site somewhere, it's a good DAC. Pair it with an amp worth £4-500 and you'll have jumped from a good system to a great system. What stereo speakers are you using by the way?
ÿ
ÿ
M y current speakers are ms 902i, i think they sound ok, i would like to upgrade when i can afford it, but i think they will do for now, my next purchase will be amp and DAC.
Octopo:Andrew Everard:
And that's without considering the limitations of the DVD/CD combination drive in the Denon as a music-playing machine.
But surely this is one of the key points of adding a DAC in this kind of set up?
Not at all - if the transport doesn't do a terribly good job of reading the data from a CD, then the best DAC In the world won't make a blind bit of difference.
So fine, scrap the CD player idea, add a DAC and a really nice amp onto your DVD player, and you'll only get a marginal improvement. The clue is in the name, people - DVD player. Not CD player.
And that's without considering the limitations of the DVD/CD combination drive in the Denon as a music-playing machine.
But surely this is one of the key points of adding a DAC in this kind of set up?
Not at all - if the transport doesn't do a terribly good job of reading the data from a CD, then the best DAC In the world won't make a blind bit of difference.
So fine, scrap the CD player idea, add a DAC and a really nice amp onto your DVD player, and you'll only get a marginal improvement. The clue is in the name, people - DVD player. Not CD player.
Andrew,
I'm confused why you advise the poster to feed the Marantz via a digital cable to the Yamaha receiver? Surely this negates the point of buying a CDP that will give better digital-analogue conversion?
Also, if we'd like to extract the most possible data from a disc would we need to use a computer, which will re-read the disc until a perfect copy is on the hard-drive?
I read that this will be "perfect", but worry that the digital output of the computer may be a little noisy. Will a Benchmark re-clocking DAC make this point pretty much irrelevant? Their website certainly claims this:
http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/dac1/
"Digital interconnect cables, electro-magnetic interference, and many
other variables introduce jitter into the digital audio. Jitter
presents a major problem to most D-to-A converters. Jitter is a type of
clock error that, if not properly addressed, can cause the D-to-A to
misfire. The result of these misfires is a non-musical, digital
distortion.
Many modern (and expensive) converters suffer from severe jitter-induced distortion. Jitter is NOT a problem for the DAC1 and DAC1 USB, which achieve jitter immunity by utilizing the proprietary UltraLockT clock-recovery system.
With the UltraLockT clock-recovery system, the digital-to-analog conversion-clock in the DAC1 and DAC1 USB
is totally isolated from the clock of the digital audio input. This
clock-recovery topology outperforms even the most well-designed
two-stage PLL designs. Using state-of-the-art Audio Precision testing
equipment, no jitter-induced artifacts can be detected with the DAC1 or the DAC1 USB.
Any signal that can be decoded by the USB or AES/EBU receivers will be
reproduced without the addition of any measurable jitter artifacts. The
bottom line is this: Benchmark converters will consistently and
faithfully deliver truthful audio with no jitter-induced artifacts, no
matter what variables are present."
I'm confused why you advise the poster to feed the Marantz via a digital cable to the Yamaha receiver? Surely this negates the point of buying a CDP that will give better digital-analogue conversion?
Also, if we'd like to extract the most possible data from a disc would we need to use a computer, which will re-read the disc until a perfect copy is on the hard-drive?
I read that this will be "perfect", but worry that the digital output of the computer may be a little noisy. Will a Benchmark re-clocking DAC make this point pretty much irrelevant? Their website certainly claims this:
http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/dac1/
"Digital interconnect cables, electro-magnetic interference, and many
other variables introduce jitter into the digital audio. Jitter
presents a major problem to most D-to-A converters. Jitter is a type of
clock error that, if not properly addressed, can cause the D-to-A to
misfire. The result of these misfires is a non-musical, digital
distortion.
Many modern (and expensive) converters suffer from severe jitter-induced distortion. Jitter is NOT a problem for the DAC1 and DAC1 USB, which achieve jitter immunity by utilizing the proprietary UltraLockT clock-recovery system.
With the UltraLockT clock-recovery system, the digital-to-analog conversion-clock in the DAC1 and DAC1 USB
is totally isolated from the clock of the digital audio input. This
clock-recovery topology outperforms even the most well-designed
two-stage PLL designs. Using state-of-the-art Audio Precision testing
equipment, no jitter-induced artifacts can be detected with the DAC1 or the DAC1 USB.
Any signal that can be decoded by the USB or AES/EBU receivers will be
reproduced without the addition of any measurable jitter artifacts. The
bottom line is this: Benchmark converters will consistently and
faithfully deliver truthful audio with no jitter-induced artifacts, no
matter what variables are present."
a4quattro:
Andrew,
I'm confused why you advise the poster to feed the Marantz via a digital cable to the Yamaha receiver? Surely this negates the point of buying a CDP that will give better digital-analogue conversion?
I did say 'for now', given that his ultimate intention is to buy a stereo amplifier to use with the CD player.
But better to run the CD player into the receiver digitally for now, raher than send the signal through DAC, ADC and DAC again on its way to the power amps.
Andrew,
I'm confused why you advise the poster to feed the Marantz via a digital cable to the Yamaha receiver? Surely this negates the point of buying a CDP that will give better digital-analogue conversion?
I did say 'for now', given that his ultimate intention is to buy a stereo amplifier to use with the CD player.
But better to run the CD player into the receiver digitally for now, raher than send the signal through DAC, ADC and DAC again on its way to the power amps.
Sorry,
I didn't read the bit about the ADC that occurs. I wish they didn't do that!
Any thoughts about these Benchmark claims? Is there a What HiFi review? I can't see one on the site.
I didn't read the bit about the ADC that occurs. I wish they didn't do that!
Any thoughts about these Benchmark claims? Is there a What HiFi review? I can't see one on the site.
Andrew Everard:Octopo:Andrew Everard:
And that's without considering the limitations of the DVD/CD combination drive in the Denon as a music-playing machine.
But surely this is one of the key points of adding a DAC in this kind of set up?ÿ
Not at all - if the transport doesn't do a terribly good job of reading the data from a CD, thenÿ the best DAC In the world won't make a blind bit of difference.
So fine, scrap the CD player idea, add a DAC and a really nice amp onto your DVD player, and you'll only get a marginal improvement. The clue is in the name, people - DVD player. Not CD player.
Again I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this. I've heard various lower end DVD players teamed with the Beresford and in my opinion easily outperformed the Marantz 6002. I'm sure the Denon 1930's transport isn't anything like low quality.
And that's without considering the limitations of the DVD/CD combination drive in the Denon as a music-playing machine.
But surely this is one of the key points of adding a DAC in this kind of set up?ÿ
Not at all - if the transport doesn't do a terribly good job of reading the data from a CD, thenÿ the best DAC In the world won't make a blind bit of difference.
So fine, scrap the CD player idea, add a DAC and a really nice amp onto your DVD player, and you'll only get a marginal improvement. The clue is in the name, people - DVD player. Not CD player.
Again I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this. I've heard various lower end DVD players teamed with the Beresford and in my opinion easily outperformed the Marantz 6002. I'm sure the Denon 1930's transport isn't anything like low quality.
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