Cyrus Pre vs2: dissapointed

[ErwinC]

As so many people seem to agree that Dynaudio speakers go well with Cyrus amplification, i bought a Cyrus Pre vs2 and tested it in combination with my current Yamaha AS-1000 used as power amp (main-in). The result was dissapointing.

When comparing the Pre vs2 with the preamp section of the Yamaha, the Cyrus provides a bit more mid presence and slightly more bass control but sounds not as natural and open as the Yamaha preamp. Detail levels are about the same. My cd player is the tube base Vincent CD-S6 (http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/vincent_cds6.htm) and the speakers are Dynaudio Focus 110.

The test setup to compare was:

1) Cyrus as preamp: Vincent CD-S6 -> Cyrus Pre vs2/pre out -> Yamaha AS-1000/main-in -> Dynaudio Focus 110

2) Yamaha as preamp: Vincent CD-S6 -> Cyrus Pre vs2/tape out -> Yamaha AS-1000/CD in -> Dynaudio focus 110

Is this perhaps a case of mismatch and would an X Power in combination with the Pre vs2 be a better solution compared to the Yamaha AS-1000?

 

[Frank Harvey]

Not sure what number 2 would've given you....

If I recall correctly, the PreVs2 was about a £600 pre-amplifier, so isn't one of their higher end ones. What you've heard is a difference between manufacturers. The Cyrus is a tighter, leaner sound than the Yamaha, which has more warmth to it. A dedicated pre-amp brings it's own benefits in separating the delicate pre-amp signals away from the hefty components in the power section of an integrated amplifier.

How long did you give the Cyrus to warm up? I'd give it a couple of hours to be safe. If you've tried it, and you're not keen, then it's not for you. If you can loan a Cyrus power amp to try it out as a matching combination, do so, as then you know that you're trying something that is designed to work well together.

 

[ErwinC]

Not sure what number 2 would've given you.... If I recall correctly, the PreVs2 was about a £600 pre-amplifier, so isn't one of their higher end ones. What you've heard is a difference between manufacturers. The Cyrus is a tighter, leaner sound than the Yamaha, which has more warmth to it. A dedicated pre-amp brings it's own benefits in separating the delicate pre-amp signals away from the hefty components in the power section of an integrated amplifier. How long did you give the Cyrus to warm up? I'd give it a couple of hours to be safe. If you've tried it, and you're not keen, then it's not for you. If you can loan a Cyrus power amp to try it out as a matching combination, do so, as then you know that you're trying something that is designed to work well together.

Number 2 was a temporary solution to be able to compare both setups side by side by only pushing a button on the remote. When the Vincent CD player was connected directly to the Yamaha, the result was even better.

It is correct that the Pre vs2 isn't one of their higher end ones, but according to a lot of people it is as good as the Pre Xvs and almost as good as the DAC XP when used as analogue preamp.

The Cyrus warmed up for several hours before i tested it. I found the result dissapointing because i have heard Cyrus integrated amplifiers several times before (not in my owm setup) and i always liked the Cyrus sound a lot. The sound is certainly not bad, but i expected a decent improvement over the preamp section in the Yamaha.

Unfortunatly i will not be able to test the Cyrus Pre vs2 with a Cyrus X Power unless i buy an X Power.

 

[ErwinC]

The more i listen to the setup, the more i am convinced that the match Cyrus pre - Yamaha power is not an ideal match. The tight, dynamic sound of the Cyrus does not really match the 'heavier' sound of the Yamaha. A Cyrus X Power will most certainly be a better combination with the Cyrus Pre vs2.

After listening to many other amps in my setup, it is my opinion though that the Yamaha AS-1000 is a really good powerful, detailed amplifier rivaling more costlier setups.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi,

I have the pre vs2 with an x power and think it sounds very good to be honest, so give it a try and you will like it especially as you said you like the cyrus sound. The pre and power together are smoother than their older integrated amps, so some people who say they are forward in presentation are wide of the mark. Im running proac response d1 speakers with them that are quite smooth anyway and it sounds very good.

Give the x power a try and see what you think.

Good luck.

Phil

 

[MUSICRAFT]

The more i listen to the setup, the more i am convinced that the match Cyrus pre - Yamaha power is not an ideal match. The tight, dynamic sound of the Cyrus does not really match the 'heavier' sound of the Yamaha. A Cyrus X Power will most certainly be a better combination with the Cyrus Pre vs2.

After listening to many other amps in my setup, it is my opinion though that the Yamaha AS-1000 is a really good powerful, detailed amplifier rivaling more costlier setups.

Hi ErwinC

If you still wish to explore the qualities of the A-S1000's power amp further then leaving tonal matching aside for a moment i feel you need to look at stronger/more potent pre amps from other manufacturers. Ime i would still recommend this route even when using Cyrus power amps.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[plastic penguin]

As so many people seem to agree that Dynaudio speakers go well with Cyrus amplification, i bought a Cyrus Pre vs2 and tested it in combination with my current Yamaha AS-1000 used as power amp (main-in). The result was dissapointing.

When comparing the Pre vs2 with the preamp section of the Yamaha, the Cyrus provides a bit more mid presence and slightly more bass control but sounds not as natural and open as the Yamaha preamp. Detail levels are about the same. My cd player is the tube base Vincent CD-S6 (http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/vincent_cds6.htm) and the speakers are Dynaudio Focus 110.

The test setup to compare was:

1) Cyrus as preamp: Vincent CD-S6 -> Cyrus Pre vs2/pre out -> Yamaha AS-1000/main-in -> Dynaudio Focus 110

2) Yamaha as preamp: Vincent CD-S6 -> Cyrus Pre vs2/tape out -> Yamaha AS-1000/CD in -> Dynaudio focus 110

Is this perhaps a case of mismatch and would an X Power in combination with the Pre vs2 be a better solution compared to the Yamaha AS-1000?

Not surprised your unhappy with any of the options: The whole set-up seems lop-sided. Mixing Cyrus Pre with Yamaha Power amp on paper may seem like a dream combo but in reality is a sonic no-no. There's no exact science to system matching, but there is a rule of thumb. My suggestion would be to try Cyrus Pre with Cyrus Power amp + Dynaudios = fabulous. Listen to various other combos - there's definitely a better combo. If you want to mix 'n' match then maybe try Rotel and Arcam + Monitor Audio speakers = fabulous.

 

[ErwinC]

The more i listen to the setup, the more i am convinced that the match Cyrus pre - Yamaha power is not an ideal match. The tight, dynamic sound of the Cyrus does not really match the 'heavier' sound of the Yamaha. A Cyrus X Power will most certainly be a better combination with the Cyrus Pre vs2.

After listening to many other amps in my setup, it is my opinion though that the Yamaha A-S1000 is a really good powerful, detailed amplifier rivaling more costlier setups.

Hi ErwinC

If you still wish to explore the qualities of the A-S1000's power amp further then leaving tonal matching aside for a moment i feel you need to look at stronger/more potent pre amps from other manufacturers. Ime i would still recommend this route even when using Cyrus power amps.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

I tested the A-S1000 with a Bryston BP-6 preamplifier before and that gave me a quite noticable improvement in detail, focus, bass depth and control, timing, ... . A real improvement. Testing with the BP-6 and 2B-SST was even better.

But the price for Bryston equipment is quite high. That is why i also looked at Cyrus.

 

[ErwinC]

Not surprised your unhappy with any of the options: The whole set-up seems lop-sided. Mixing Cyrus Pre with Yamaha Power amp on paper may seem like a dream combo but in reality is a sonic no-no. There's no exact science to system matching, but there is a rule of thumb. My suggestion would be to try Cyrus Pre with Cyrus Power amp + Dynaudios = fabulous. Listen to various other combos - there's definitely a better combo. If you want to mix 'n' match then maybe try Rotel and Arcam + Monitor Audio speakers = fabulous.

It is not my intention to mix Cyrus with Yamaha. I am looking to improve on my Yamaha A-S1000 and one option is to go for a Cyrus pre/power amp combo. That is why i started with the Pre vs2 to find out how good Cyrus is. If the X Power is similar in quality as the Pre vs2 , i am afraid that a Pre vs2/X Power will not be a huge step-up from my Yamaha.

 

[ErwinC]

If I recall correctly, the PreVs2 was about a £600 pre-amplifier, so isn't one of their higher end ones.

According to the many user and magazine reviews i have seen, the Pre vs2 is very similar in quality as the more expensive Pre Xvs. Only the Pre XP and DAC XP are probably slightly better than the Pre vs2 when used as analogue preamp. Although, the very respectable German audio magazine called "Stereo" rates the Pre Xvs and DAC XP identical as analogue preamp. The Pre vs2 rates 1 point higher than both the Pre Xvs and DAC XP. So i think it is safe to say that the Pre vs2, Pre Xvs, Pre XP and DAC XP are all very similar sound quality wise when used as analogue preamp.

Now Cyrus has very good power amps like the X Power, Mono X, Mono X 200 and Mono X 300. Does this mean that they don't have an equivalent analogue preamp in their range?

 

[Frank Harvey]

Personally, I'd say there's a fair difference moving up the the DACxp+, which is comfortably better than the PreXP. Obviously they'll have similar traits though being from the same family.

We've been using the DACxp+ with their CD transport and X300's, and the DACxp+ doesn't shame itself, even through ultra revealing speakers like ProAc Response K6's and KEF Reference 207/2's. So I think the DACxp+ is more than up to the job J)

 

[ErwinC]

Personally, I'd say there's a fair difference moving up the the DACxp+, which is comfortably better than the PreXP. Obviously they'll have similar traits though being from the same family. We've been using the DACxp+ with their CD transport and X300's, and the DACxp+ doesn't shame itself, even through ultra revealing speakers like ProAc Response K6's and KEF Reference 207/2's. So I think the DACxp+ is more than up to the job J)

I don't doubt that. But at that moment you are using the DAC xp+ as a DAC with volume control, not as an analogue preamp since you are connecting the Cyrus CD transport via a digital interconnect with the DAC xp+.

Did you ever compare the Pre XP (or Pre vs2) to the DAC xp+ with a CD8 se only connected via analogue interconnects? That is the comparison i am interested in. I have a very good CD player and don't need a DAC. I only need an analogue preamp.

 

[Frank Harvey]

That's how we generally use the DACxp+, but we have done dems using CD8's in various guises, both digital and analogue into various pre-amplifiers. I was just making the point that if the DACxp+ wasn't up to scratch on the analogue side, it would still come across in those types of systems, as they'll have analogue output stages.

 

[ErwinC]

That's how we generally use the DACxp+, but we have done dems using CD8's in various guises, both digital and analogue into various pre-amplifiers. I was just making the point that if the DACxp+ wasn't up to scratch on the analogue side, it would still come across in those types of systems, as they'll have analogue output stages.

I think that is not completely true as this depends on the internal implementation of the Cyrus DAC xp+ digital and analogue path. The analogue path is probably very different from the digital path.

Still, the only good way to test is like i said above. Connect a Cyrus CD player with analogue interconnects to the DAC xp+ and the Pre XP (or Pre vs2 or Pre Xvs) and compare the results. All other tests are only speculations/guesses. That is BTW, how the German magazine "Stereo" tested the DAC xp, Pre vs2 and Pre Xvs.

Did anyone ever compare Cyrus preamplifiers this way?

 

[datay]

I have compared both the Cyrus CD6SE analogue and optical output into the PreXPd Qx - meaning the improved DAC version of the PreXPd. I guess this makes this a test of PreXP vs Qx dac - I had assumed that the signal from the Qx dac was fed to the analogue preamp until now. I still think it may be actually.

Anyway, the sound is no different to my ears. I have tested it quite a few times, flicking back and forth between analogue and digital output from the CD player, and also comparing tracks one after the other. (I have X Power driving PMC DB1i speakers by the way). Now, I am prepared to accept the differences might be small and subtle, but I expected to hear at least some difference. Cyrus marketing suggests the Qx dac actually sits between the CD8SE and DACXP. I have to say I've heard none. (Jeremy Brown from Cyrus assured me in an email that he did the same test and heard a definite difference. I haven't.)

David, not sure what you mean when you say you've run the CD8 both digital and analogue into various preamps, as those preamps would need an onboard dac, as XPd or DACXP if outputting from CD digitally?

 

[ErwinC]

Update

After a few days of listening i have to say that the sound of the Pre vs2 improved quite a bit. I suspect that the used Pre vs2 i bought from a store had not been playing for a long time or played very little.

Either way, all aspects of the sound of the Pre vs2 have improved significantly: timing, air, detail, bass control, bass depth, midrange ... . Comparing it now to the preamp section of the Yamaha makes the Yamaha sounding a bit empty/hollow, missing the more musical, organic and detailed midrange of the Cyrus.

My next step will be to buy a used X Power for my Dynaudio Focus 110 speakers.

If in the meantime someone compared the Pre XP to the Pre vs or Pre Xvs, i am still interested.

BTW, how can i change the subject of my first message? I would like to change it to: "Cyrus Pre vs: not dissapointed anymore". But it is not possible to edit my first message.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

I have compared both the Cyrus CD6SE analogue and optical output into the PreXPd Qx - meaning the improved DAC version of the PreXPd. I guess this makes this a test of PreXP vs Qx dac - I had assumed that the signal from the Qx dac was fed to the analogue preamp until now. I still think it may be actually.

Anyway, the sound is no different to my ears. I have tested it quite a few times, flicking back and forth between analogue and digital output from the CD player, and also comparing tracks one after the other. (I have X Power driving PMC DB1i speakers by the way). Now, I am prepared to accept the differences might be small and subtle, but I expected to hear at least some difference. Cyrus marketing suggests the Qx dac actually sits between the CD8SE and DACXP. I have to say I've heard none. (Jeremy Brown from Cyrus assured me in an email that he did the same test and heard a definite difference. I haven't.)

David, not sure what you mean when you say you've run the CD8 both digital and analogue into various preamps, as those preamps would need an onboard dac, as XPd or DACXP if outputting from CD digitally?

Hi datay

If you really want to hear a worthwhile to be made to your cd player, power amp and speakers then i'll still highly recommend looking at alternative pre amplifiers from other manufacturers

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[datay]

Cheers Rick - you've told me before!

Still looking on the bay for those Rotel amps you mentioned. Tons of 971, 972, no 995 or 1090s at all. Perhaps their age? (I think it was January when you mentioned them, not seen a single one, I check other boards and used dealers too; that said there have been a couple in the US and Canada).

This was more an issue with the Qx dac than the pre - no apparent improvement over CD6SE when there is meant to be. If I can find one of the above preamps, I will sell the Cyrus and audition other dacs. Don't worry, Rega will be on top of the list!

Apologies this is no longer on thread (though we're still talking the relative merits of Cyrus preamps...)

 

[Anonymous]

ErwinC

Cant comment on the differences between the cyrus pre's but the focus 110s on the end of an xpower is a superb combination. Im running a very similar system. If you allready like the cyrus sound you wont regret it. Just be aware the temptation to buy a second x power and run them in mono is strong!lol.

 

[ErwinC]

ErwinC

Cant comment on the differences between the cyrus pre's but the focus 110s on the end of an xpower is a superb combination. Im running a very similar system. If you allready like the cyrus sound you wont regret it.

Thanks for the confirmation.