Curious thing about the 80hz crossover

[Sliced Bread]

I've been told many a time that the best crossover frequency for HT is 80hz. This is something I've always avoided because setting the cot off that low on the Onkyo 905 would cut off the very lower frequencies in some male vocals.

I assumed this was universal as 80hz is 80hz right!?! But no.

Over the last week or so I've had the opportunity to play around with a Yamaha A3030, Pioneer LX87 and my old Onkyo 905.

Playing the same discs this cut off in the vocals wasn't heard on the lx87 or a3030 even with the sub off. Vocals certainly didn't feel any thinner on these amps so I don't think that's the reason.

The only conclusion I can draw is that different receivers apply different cut off curves. Maybe an 80hz cut off on the Onkyo starts to roll off higher up the frequency range than the Yamaha and Pioneer. It maybe the Onlyo's curve is steeper.

Either way, if I've learnt one thing from this it's not to blindly apply the 80hz rule to all receivers / speaker combos. It's definitely worth experimenting with first.

 

[chrisup]

Sliced Bread

With my Onkyo 905 and my B&W 685 Theatre I use 100 hz as the crossover.

I also tried replying to your other post (too many characters message) I desliked the Pioneer LX 55 when I heard it but loved the Austrralian Yamaha receiver I heard 2 months ago (£500). Fortunately my Onkyo is still woking fine touch wood.

Best Wishes

Chris

 

[Sliced Bread]

Sliced Bread

With my Onkyo 905 and my B&W 685 Theatre I use 100 hz as the crossover.

I also tried replying to your other post (too many characters message) I desliked the Pioneer LX 55 when I heard it but loved the Austrralian Yamaha receiver I heard 2 months ago (£500). Fortunately my Onkyo is still woking fine touch wood.

Best Wishes

Chris

Yes it's a pain when that happens. To post you have to delete a few characters from the subject.

I'm glad your 905 is still ok, it's a great amp. Part of the reason I didn't go for the Yamaha was because it was very similar in sound to the Onkyo except with less well defined bass. The top end was an improvement, but I was used to better bass from the 905 so it didn't feel like a complete upgrade. The Yamaha's bass was really nice to listen to on the short term, but by day two I started to notice that low end information which I could hear on the 905 was almost smoothed out to nothing on the Yamaha. Still...it has a nice overall balance.

I think if I hadn't already owned a 905 I would have loved the Yamaha, but the Yamaha gets it's wow factor from a big sound. As I've lived with a 905 for quite a few years, which has almost just as big a sound it just didn't impress me.

If you think about going down that route, my advice would be to make sure you can demo at home for a few days.

I'm finally settling into the Pioneer. It isn't as cosy sounding as the Yamaha but the detail and bass definition is really quite impressive and I'm getting "wowed" now by different things in the sound track. It does take a bit of adjusting to though.

 

[Sliced Bread]

On another note Chris, do you find a difference in the very bottom end of vocals on the 905 between 60 & 100 hz?

 

[chrisup]

I upgraded to the ASW 610 sub and find that 100hz its just perfect. Have you listened to the Quantum of Solace opening chase between the Aston and the Alfa Romeos with bullets flying and carcrashes and violins playing? I bet it would sound good on your CM8s!! I have 2 HiFis one Arcam from the 80s and my Nytech cTA252 and Rega Planar 3 from the late 70s (took 3 years to save up and sell my old HiFI) andI tend keep my equipment along time it pays to pay the extra for quality and musical enjoyment.

Best wishes

Chris

 

[Sliced Bread]

I upgraded to the ASW 610 sub and find that 100hz its just perfect. Have you listened to the Quantum of Solace opening chase between the Aston and the Alfa Romeos with bullets flying and carcrashes and violins playing? I bet it would sound good on your CM8s!! I have 2 HiFis one Arcam from the 80s and my Nytech cTA252 and Rega Planar 3 from the late 70s (took 3 years to save up and sell my old HiFI) andI tend keep my equipment along time it pays to pay the extra for quality and musical enjoyment.

Best wishes

Chris

Maybe your sub is better than mine

I've not tried that film yet, but I will The 80's Arcams were brilliant. My Dad had an Alpha 1, which is pretty much what got me into this hobbie in the first place. I think I prefer the orignial Arcams over the current ones.

 

[ellisdj]

I also setup to 100hz now - however previously I had found it to be directional, to heavy or distracting. Directional bass is the worst thing I find - I have found the cause of bass directionality is not always what you might think and trying to eq it out is not always the best way to go.

I think a portion depends on sub quality the rest is room acoustics -- listening position, eq setup quality, sub integration setup - initial speaker setup, timing of the speakers in relation to the sub ie phase and the amount of noise (jitter) and vibrations in the whole chain

Its worth the effort getting these right - not just relying on an av receiver to do it all for you perfectly - my experience is they get close but are rarely perfect.

 

[Sliced Bread]

I also setup to 100hz now - however previously I had found it to be directional, to heavy or distracting. Directional bass is the worst thing I find - I have found the cause of bass directionality is not always what you might think and trying to eq it out is not always the best way to go.

I think a portion depends on sub quality the rest is room acoustics -- listening position, eq setup quality, sub integration setup - initial speaker setup, timing of the speakers in relation to the sub ie phase and the amount of noise (jitter) and vibrations in the whole chain

Its worth the effort getting these right - not just relying on an av receiver to do it all for you perfectly - my experience is they get close but are rarely perfect.

Yes I think you're right.

My main speakers definitely have better defined bass than my sub at the 60 to 100 hz range, although obviously not the power. Maybe with a better sub these higher crossover settings become an improvement.

Would love a PV1D, but a bit pricy

 

[steakers]

ive been reading your comments with much interest , today i have sat and messed with crossovers that the Audessey settings on my denon set to 40 hz , ive been trying out new crossovers since reading this , ive now settled at 90hz and im noticing a much better musical display from the fronts now and smooth rounded bass from the sub , the fronts have opened alot and im picking up much more information from them . thanks for the advice . much needed .

cheers.

 

[Sliced Bread]

It's good when a setting makes such a difference eh

 

[chrisup]

My Arcam is an Alpha and still sounds good. I persauded my parents to ditch a radiogram and buy the Rotel Receiver with Garard 86SB and Rank Domus speakers coutesy of HiFI Answers. Still works fine although the cat attacked the speaked covers!!

Best wishes

Chris