Comparing my Naim system to a Cyrus system at home...

[audiokid]

Hi all,

The comparisons of Cyrus and Naim is a much debated topic. I decided to try for myself, just out of interest really. I currently have a Naim Supernait, Naim DAC, TeddyCap PSU, Harbeth P3esr, fed by a Mac Mini with a Wireworld optical.

The system sounds fantastic, it has some serious weight behind it for such a small set up, and the level of realism, warmth, detail and overall enjoyment is high. However, I was intrigued by the little black Cyrus boxes and what they can do. Many say the brands are like chalk and cheese, so i thought I would give them a try on a home demo.

The Cyrus system is fed by the Mac Mini still, and has the Harbeth P3esr on the end. It comprises of the DAC XP+, X-Power amplifier and the PSX-R attached to the DAC XP+.

Setting up the Cyrus is easy and the design is neat. I prefer the overall design of the Naim and it feels like it is built better. But, the Cyrus size is appealing. More importantly, when the Cyrus was up and running it was a good first impression. To be completely honest, it is not as different to the Naim as I expected. Although, im sure it will become more apparent when I switch back to the Naim set up. A couple of days in, the Cyrus seems to be a little more detailed than the Naim, and there is a little more definition to each sound, so I would describe it as being a little clearer and more forward. Saying that, the upper frequencies are more edgy and sharp, but it doesn't cross the line into irratation.

I haven't heard of many partnering Cyrus and Harbeth, but I have with Naim. However, I think the richer, smoother tone of the Harbeth (and slight rolled off treble) works really well with Cyrus. The Cyrus pushes some extra clarity through the Harbeth, which with the wrong electronics could sound too smooth for some.

I have only experienced the Cyrus for a short time and it's difficult to say which I prefer. The Cyrus has a nice level of detail which I do crave sometimes, but overall I think the Naim system might be the one that has more long term enjoyment. I will be able to evaluate when I set it up again in the next day or so.

Has anyone else tried or owned both brands? Any similar or conflicting experiences? It would be good to hear your thoughts!

 

[MajorFubar]

Those are really enlightening first impressions, AudioKid, thank you for taking the time to post them

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi AK

On a slight tangent, what other amps did the Naim have to beat, in order to to take pride of place in your set up?

 

[audiokid]

Not so many, I tried Audiolab, Roksan and other Naim amps - XS and Superuniti mainly.

 

[CnoEvil]

Cheers.

It was good to get your viewpoint.

 

[iceman16]

Hi AK

Have you tried some Naim pre/power like 202/200 and 282/250?

 

[audiokid]

No, unfortunately not. One day I would like to try the 252 and 282 in particular but I have always been limited to 2 full size boxes inc DAC.

 

[jockey.wilson]

I sold my olive Naim system some time ago, and bought a Cyrus cd transport and integrated (8XP) for convenience and reduced size.

I went through a power supply and upgraded to a Pre XP but ultimately went back to Naim.

I missed the soul that Naim seems to inject and find in the music. The Cyrus house sound is incredibly detailed and clarity is first class, but it just didn't get me involved in the music like my old Naim system did, and indeed my newer one. Presentationally there is not that much difference between Naim and Cyrus, my Naim systems have made me want to sing and dance whereas my Cyrus system just made me analyse the sounds that my speakers we making.

I would add that I have had my Dynaudios for 11 years and have been a constant throughout.

 

[audiokid]

I sold my olive Naim system some time ago, and bought a Cyrus cd transport and integrated (8XP) for convenience and reduced size.

I went through a power supply and upgraded to a Pre XP but ultimately went back to Naim.

I missed the soul that Naim seems to inject and find in the music. The Cyrus house sound is incredibly detailed and clarity is first class, but it just didn't get me involved in the music like my old Naim system did, and indeed my newer one. Presentationally there is not that much difference between Naim and Cyrus, my Naim systems have made me want to sing and dance whereas my Cyrus system just made me analyse the sounds that my speakers we making.

I would add that I have had my Dynaudios for 11 years and have been a constant throughout.

I can agree with your observation here, JW.

I too have found a similar effect with the Cyrus, where i just sit there analysing the music. Perhaps it is because the system is new to me, but when i switched back to the Naim, it was a different connection altogether. Again, this could be familiarity but switching back to the Naim it just sounded so perfectly balanced and full bodied. Bass was warm and deep, mid range was realistic and the high frequencies were smooth and refined. In some ways it is more detailed than the Cyrus, but the Cyrus just throws more upper frequencies at you, giving the sensation of it being more detailed.

Will keep the music playing and thoughts coming!

 

[toyota man]

Hi audiokid great review I wil follow your thread with intrest having had a love hate relationship with Cyrus over the years as you say if you are not carefull you stop listening to and enjoying the music and start analising it :cheers:

 

[audiokid]

Listening to the Cyrus system again, it is sounding much better than my experiences over the weekend. Perhaps it is settled in now after a few days of use (or i have accustomed to it) but it is sounding much more balanced. Still more detail than the Naim, but a nice mid to go with it.

I like the sound of both systems, i guess it come down to other factors such as features, upgrade options, reliability. The cyrus is a neater set up and a little better value for money longer term, but are hey reliable? I heard they can be glitchy in comparison to the very reliable Naim kit.

 

[Frank Harvey]

The cyrus is a neater set up and a little better value for money longer term, but are hey reliable? I heard they can be glitchy in comparison to the very reliable Naim kit.

The 'glitchy' part is probably down to the initial teething problems that Cyrus had when they designed and produced their own laser mechanisms. With the current 'SE2' models, those issues are solved.

I've done quite a few Cyrus vs Naim demos, and generally I've found that those into electronics music tend to go for Cyrus, and those into music using more real instruments tend to go for the Naim. Both Cyrus and naim deal with the other types of music too, but they seem to shine a little more with the above genres. Having said that, the speaker choice will have an effect on which is preferred by the individual.

Entry level products usually came down on the Naim side, and the more expensive products on the Cyrus side, but as Cyrus have now improved their entry level products, this area is a lot closer.

 

[audiokid]

Thanks for your response, David.

I'm a little torn, because I like all types of music from Nick Drake to Kraftwerk! Its difficult to make a decision without owning both for a while, but the Cyrus has a day before it has to go back, or it's a keeper.

The speakers are Harbeth P3er, source is Mac Mini.

So it's a head to head between:

Cyrus Dac XP+ / X Power / PSX-R

Naim Supernait / Hicap / Naim DAC

David, do you have any advice here? What would you choose, knowing both brands well? It's tricky to evaluate from such a short period.

Cost really isn't an issue, as i already own the more expensive Naim kit, and the Cyrus is ex demo.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Firstly, I'll say that I like both brands. They generally sound equally as good, but just different. For electronic music, I do prefer the fuller bass of the Cyrus for stuff like Boards Of Canada (although it could be argued that this bass is more 'normal', as Naim tends to be a tad curtailed in the lower region), but having said that, the KEF R series brings the Naim closer in this respect.

Because of how good the DACxp+ is, I would personally take that route, but that would also be because I know the (higher end) Cyrus works extremely well with KEF's Reference range and the Blades (obviously thinking longer term here). I think if I was building up a mid priced Naim system, I'd probably be looking at basing it on the new NAC-N172 pre/streamer, and adding something like a NAP200.

Unfortunately, I can't comment about how they'd sound with the Harbeths as I've never heard a pair. Ultimately, you'd have to weigh up whether you think that the Cyrus was better enough to warrant losing money on your current Naim in order to gain the Cyrus system, and how well each suit your current speakers - or think longer term to any other speakers you might have. If you'll be sticking weith one or two of those systems, it should be a fairly easy choice once you've assessed both systems on your own terms. But if you're looking to delve further into the worlds of Cyrus and Naim with some upgrades later on, you would need to familiarise yourself with how that sounds - Cyrus sounds similar but improves, but Naim tends to change quite dramatically....

 

[audiokid]

David, thanks for offering your advice there. The only difference i can hear now is that the Cyrus just seems a little more detailed in the upper frequencies. I think it would would be hard to judge low frequencies on the mini Harbeths. Both sytems match with the Harbeth well, so i think it jsut comes down to more practical issues like monies, upgrades etc. will have a think.

I bought all of the Naim stuff used, so it would sell for pretty much the same I imagine.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi audiokid

I have alternative suggestions which you might also find appealing. I am going to be tied up for a while now though so I'll have to get back to you later on today.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[audiokid]

Ok, thanks Rick... Looking forward to hearing from you.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi audiokid

Fwiw, i've heard a pair of Monitor 30 speakers being driven by Naim's NAC 72/HiCap/NAP 250 (all Olive) and NAC 282/NAPSC/Hi Cap/NAP 300 power amplifier and i also thought Naim/Harbeth combination to work well. Anyway as an alternative to your current Naim components i'll recommend pairing your P3ESR's with Naim's new NAC-N172 XS and NAP 250.

http://www.naimaudio.com/hifi-products/nac-n-172-xs

If the size of the Cyrus components appeals to you then i feel the Cyrus X Power can benefit from better quality of pre amplification. Antelope Audio's Zodiac Plus Mastering DAC or Zodiac Gold 384 kHz DAC are worth a look as you'll also benefit from superior digital to analogue conversion. The Zodiac Plus Mastering DAC and Zodiac Gold 384 kHz DAC can also have their performance enhanced by the optional Voltikus PSU power supply.

http://www.antelopeaudio.com/en/products/Zodiac-Plus-Mastering-DAC

http://www.antelopeaudio.com/en/products/Zodiac-Gold-DAC

As an alternative to the Zodiac Plus DAC and Zodiac Gold 384 kHz DAC also look at pairing the Cyrus X Power with Resonessence Labs Invicta DAC/Pre Amp or for a one make system then April Music Eximus DP1 DAC/Pre Amp and Eximus S1 power amplifier. I've not heard the Invicta or the DP1/S1 yet however i've heard very high praise for these electronics so i would say the Resonessence Labs and the April Music components are also worth serious consideration.

http://resonessencelabs.com/

http://www.aprilmusic.com/eng/main/sub02_04_dev.html

I just want to be clear that i have no dealings with Antelope Audio, Resonessence Labs or April Music.

Btw, what is your maximum budget please?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[CnoEvil]

If you are opening up your search to include other amps, I would throw in brands like Electrocompaniet, Bel Canto, Denson, Lavardin and Musical Fidelity.

If this is of interest, and you give your max budget, it would be possible to narrow down some models.

Cno

 

[audiokid]

Thanks Rick, there are lots of options to look at there.

The Lavardin amps look lovely, I heard one briefly last year and it was very nice indeed, although didnt get to hear with Harbeth.

I have decided that the Naim wins over the Cyrus though, as much as I like the Cyrus it would jutst be a step sideways, possibly backwards. It has been great to try it though, and I enjoyed hearing the two over the last few days.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi audiokid

Your welcome and nice one

If you already haven't done so then please have a listen to the following tracks -

African Drug - Original Mix & African Drug - T.Williams Keye Mix (Bob Holroyd - African Drug)

Drumming Up A Storm - Remix (Bob Holroyd - Spin)

These tracks also help show the qualities of Naim electronics just nicely :rockout:

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[audiokid]

Brilliant, thanks. Will have a listen!

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi audiokid

Your welcome.

Turn up the volume for these three tracks :twisted:

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[CnoEvil]

The Lavardin amps look lovely, I heard one briefly last year and it was very nice indeed, although didnt get to hear with Harbeth.

The Lavardin should work very well with Harbeth......well worth the effort of getting a demo.

 

[krolikgena]

The cyrus is a neater set up and a little better value for money longer term, but are hey reliable? I heard they can be glitchy in comparison to the very reliable Naim kit.

The 'glitchy' part is probably down to the initial teething problems that Cyrus had when they designed and produced their own laser mechanisms. With the current 'SE2' models, those issues are solved.

I've done quite a few Cyrus vs Naim demos, and generally I've found that those into electronics music tend to go for Cyrus, and those into music using more real instruments tend to go for the Naim. Both Cyrus and naim deal with the other types of music too, but they seem to shine a little more with the above genres. Having said that, the speaker choice will have an effect on which is preferred by the individual.

Entry level products usually came down on the Naim side, and the more expensive products on the Cyrus side, but as Cyrus have now improved their entry level products, this area is a lot closer.

David, does it mean that Naim is more natural sounding system than Cyrus?

Regards