Combining Old Systems

[RopTop]

Morning everyone,

First (proper) post – please be gentle.

I am returning to hi-fi after an absence of around 10 years (university, work, etc) and would like some advice from those more experienced than me (that will be all of you then).

I recently rediscovered listening to music for pleasure with the purchase of a Sonos Play:3, which I installed in the bedroom. I found that due to the simplicity of the Sonos interface (plus Spotify), music was available on my terms, rather than scrabbling around for the right CD, etc. Whilst the Sonos is just as good as the old Pure DAB radio it replaced when I want the radio on for background noise (ie when getting ready for work in the morning, etc), the fact that I could choose what to listen to meant that I started actively listening to music again.

A visit to a musician friend’s house then revealed that Sonos also do the Connect and after listening to this on his hi-fi, I was hooked and soon purchased my own Connect unit and wired this up to the existing system in my lounge, which belongs to my wife.

However, I also have my own components in storage and therefore would like some opinions from you all. Of the existing equipment, what is the best combination? I have auditioned all of the various combinations and have my own thoughts, but wonder what everyone else thinks? This is the equipment list:

Amps – Denon PMA-250SE, Cambridge Audio A5
CDPs – Marantz CD67 OSE, Philips CD723
Speakers – Tannoy Mercury M1, Gale Mini Monitor
Cassette Deck – Yamaha CDX-393
Tuner – Denon TU260L
Plus – Sonos bridge/connect/Play:3

Following up on this, I am starting to dream bigger ... if I were to sell all of the components (aside from the Sonos kit), I probably only need an amp, speakers and a CDP (and a dac?), would the money recouped cover a meaningful upgrade and if not, how much would I need to add?

If it helps, my household’s musical tastes are fairly varied. I listen to a lot of classical, but my wife is partial to modern pop...

Thanks in advance.

RT.

 

[sublime]

I would keep the amp and cd player for now and buy some new speakers

 

[lejockey]

I agree, the speakers are by far the weakest link in any hifi chain. Decent speakers = decent hifi. All the rest is just tweaking that last 0.5%. Having said that. this works to a point, if you have speakers that need a lot of power to drive them, then they won't sound good without a powerful amp.

 

[Glacialpath]

Hi there. Glad to hear youo have redescovered music.

Out of what you have I would sell all accept one of the CD players and of course your Sonos.

Listen to both CD players and see which one you feel sounds best, then sell the other one with the rest of your kit.

You won't get massas for it all but mark it up as a good startinug point for someone just getting into Hi-Fi Seperates. You might be able to sell it all as a whole system

Then if It was me I would look for a good DAC a better set of speakers as was pointed out and a more powerful amp. To my ears using a seperat DAC as apposed to the one in the CD player gives music more body and if you take into accout the reason for having seperates in the first place then a stand alone DAC is better. Not always as some new kit have very good DACs already and a seperate one may not yeild enouugh difference.

If you want to save a bit of cash I would go second hand, as the time you have been away things have moved of so much that even a 2 year old amp or set of speakers should out do your current set up.

If you are happy to spend a bit of money on new stuff and still want a CD player I would audition a load of different components at your local Hi-Fi dealer. Tell them the kind of music you like and ask them to suggest a few things and take your favourite CDs with you.

I personally would factor in cables into your budget and try out differnt speaker cable and interconnects to see if they make any further difference. Though I'm likely to have invited a barrage of Flack from the other forum users stating cables don't make a difference. Only your ears will tell you that, not us. Cable updates to my seup have made a huge difference to the music I listen to and my whole Hi-Fi is second hand and about 15 years old.

Have fun building or updating your new system and descovering your music all over again.

Let us know how you get on.

 

[sublime]

The Dac in the Sonos will be absolutely fine at this stage of an upgrade. Speakers will make the biggest difference and I would blow my entire budget on them. An amp upgrade at a later date would be my next upgrade. The Marantz CD could be modded very cheaply to bring improvements, Fidelity Audio modify Marantz CDP's extensively.

Cables later if you're that way inclined.

 

[matthewpiano]

In a friendly way, I disagree with most of Glacialpath's post.

There is no advantage to an outboard DAC in terms of sound quality and the one built in to whatever CD player you buy, or indeed in the Sonos, will suffice perfectly.

Why not start off with a system combining the best of what you have and trying to live with it for a while. Then you can sell the rest of your kit, and steadily upgrade the system as you feel the need, but being careful that you stop when you feel the hi-fi is no longer distracting you from the music.

For that starting point, I'd take the Denon amp over the Cambridge every time, and I would be inclined to combine that with the Marantz CD player and the Tannoy speakers. This should make an enjoyable set-up to begin with.

No point changing that Denon tuner. You would have to go a long way to improve on it.

 

[Glacialpath]

In a friendly way, I disagree with most of Glacialpath's post.

There is no advantage to an outboard DAC in terms of sound quality and the one built in to whatever CD player you buy, or indeed in the Sonos, will suffice perfectly.

Not trying to start an argument or anything but about a week ago I did some experiments with my system. I took my DAC out and just used the CD player along with the Control amp and Power amp. I made some recordings of 3 completely different songs that unfortunatly I can't post due to copy right reasons.

I then addad the DAC back in to the system and recorded the same 3 bits of the 3 songs. The sound had much more body and weight to it than it did without the DAC.

As I always try to say to the OPs to use their own ears and let them tell you if there is an difference.

 

[Gazzip]

I agree, the speakers are by far the weakest link in any hifi chain. Decent speakers = decent hifi. All the rest is just tweaking that last 0.5%. Having said that. this works to a point, if you have speakers that need a lot of power to drive them, then they won't sound good without a powerful amp.

totally correct. Good advice. A man who understands his components.

 

[davedotco]

I agree, the speakers are by far the weakest link in any hifi chain. Decent speakers = decent hifi. All the rest is just tweaking that last 0.5%. Having said that. this works to a point, if you have speakers that need a lot of power to drive them, then they won't sound good without a powerful amp.

totally correct. Good advice. A man who understands his components.

But doesn't understand them very well, common enough.

To paraphrase Robert Harley, 'speakers are essentially passive devices, they can not improve the signal that is fed to them'

The signal being fed to the speakers is hugely important, supply a carp signal to great speakers, what do you get....... :?

Serious question.

 

[davedotco]

Morning everyone, First (proper) post – please be gentle. I am returning to hi-fi after an absence of around 10 years (university, work, etc) and would like some advice from those more experienced than me (that will be all of you then). I recently rediscovered listening to music for pleasure with the purchase of a Sonos Play:3, which I installed in the bedroom. I found that due to the simplicity of the Sonos interface (plus Spotify), music was available on my terms, rather than scrabbling around for the right CD, etc. Whilst the Sonos is just as good as the old Pure DAB radio it replaced when I want the radio on for background noise (ie when getting ready for work in the morning, etc), the fact that I could choose what to listen to meant that I started actively listening to music again. A visit to a musician friend’s house then revealed that Sonos also do the Connect and after listening to this on his hi-fi, I was hooked and soon purchased my own Connect unit and wired this up to the existing system in my lounge, which belongs to my wife. However, I also have my own components in storage and therefore would like some opinions from you all. Of the existing equipment, what is the best combination? I have auditioned all of the various combinations and have my own thoughts, but wonder what everyone else thinks? This is the equipment list: Amps – Denon PMA-250SE, Cambridge Audio A5 CDPs – Marantz CD67 OSE, Philips CD723 Speakers – Tannoy Mercury M1, Gale Mini Monitor Cassette Deck – Yamaha CDX-393 Tuner – Denon TU260L Plus – Sonos bridge/connect/Play:3 Following up on this, I am starting to dream bigger ... if I were to sell all of the components (aside from the Sonos kit), I probably only need an amp, speakers and a CDP (and a dac?), would the money recouped cover a meaningful upgrade and if not, how much would I need to add? If it helps, my household’s musical tastes are fairly varied. I listen to a lot of classical, but my wife is partial to modern pop... Thanks in advance. RT.

I think you need to decide what you want to achieve, what functionality you actually want.

Local streaming, internet streaming, CD replay, FM radio etc, etc.

I personally think you are at a point where you should completely modernise youe system, do you want to play CDs in real time or are you going to rip everthing to hard disc, what about radio, do you want to keep FM or are you going to go to internet radio? All these questions need to be addressed before you spend money.

Again, personally, if I do not have too many CDs, I would rip them to hard disc and sell on the CD player, similarly I would use internet radio and let the tuner go too. I would use the PMA250 and the Tannoys (as the better components) with the connect as a source and see what I actually use.

When I work out what parts of the system I actually use, then I think I would know where to spend the money.

 

[Gazzip]

I agree, the speakers are by far the weakest link in any hifi chain. Decent speakers = decent hifi. All the rest is just tweaking that last 0.5%. Having said that. this works to a point, if you have speakers that need a lot of power to drive them, then they won't sound good without a powerful amp.

totally correct. Good advice. A man who understands his components.

But doesn't understand them very well, common enough.

To paraphrase Robert Harley, 'speakers are essentially passive devices, they can not improve the signal that is fed to them'

The signal being fed to the speakers is hugely important, supply a carp signal to great speakers, what do you get....... :?

Serious question.

Audio is picked up by a microphone, essentially through tiny vibrations of a diaphragm caused by soundwaves, and converted to an electrical signal. Loudspeakers attempt to reproduce those original vibrations on a larger scale, recreating the original soundwave that we all hear. The microphone and the loudspeakers are doing the tricky part. The better made these items are the more accurate a representation of the original sound you hear. The other elements in the HiFi chain are simply recording/moving/amplifying that original electrical signal. That is the easy part. As long as the basics have been executed correctly, and providing the amplifier is correctly powered to drive the speakers, there is little to choose between them. In my opinion.

 

[davedotco]

I agree, the speakers are by far the weakest link in any hifi chain. Decent speakers = decent hifi. All the rest is just tweaking that last 0.5%. Having said that. this works to a point, if you have speakers that need a lot of power to drive them, then they won't sound good without a powerful amp.

totally correct. Good advice. A man who understands his components.

But doesn't understand them very well, common enough.

To paraphrase Robert Harley, 'speakers are essentially passive devices, they can not improve the signal that is fed to them'

The signal being fed to the speakers is hugely important, supply a carp signal to great speakers, what do you get....... :?

Serious question.

Audio is picked up by a microphone, essentially through tiny vibrations of a diaphragm caused by soundwaves, and converted to an electrical signal. Loudspeakers attempt to reproduce those original vibrations on a larger scale, recreating the original soundwave that we all hear. The microphone and the loudspeakers are doing the tricky part. The better made these items are the more accurate a representation of the original sound you hear. The other elements in the HiFi chain are simply recording/moving/amplifying that original electrical signal. That is the easy part. As long as the basics have been executed correctly, and providing the amplifier is correctly powered to drive the speakers, there is little to choose between them. In my opinion.

You didn't actually answer the question......! Do try again.

Your dismissal of 90% of the recording, mastering and playback chain concerns me too, that degree of certainty suggests a lack of experience.

 

[Gazzip]

I agree, the speakers are by far the weakest link in any hifi chain. Decent speakers = decent hifi. All the rest is just tweaking that last 0.5%. Having said that. this works to a point, if you have speakers that need a lot of power to drive them, then they won't sound good without a powerful amp.

totally correct. Good advice. A man who understands his components.

But doesn't understand them very well, common enough.

To paraphrase Robert Harley, 'speakers are essentially passive devices, they can not improve the signal that is fed to them'

The signal being fed to the speakers is hugely important, supply a carp signal to great speakers, what do you get....... :?

Serious question.

Audio is picked up by a microphone, essentially through tiny vibrations of a diaphragm caused by soundwaves, and converted to an electrical signal. Loudspeakers attempt to reproduce those original vibrations on a larger scale, recreating the original soundwave that we all hear. The microphone and the loudspeakers are doing the tricky part. The better made these items are the more accurate a representation of the original sound you hear. The other elements in the HiFi chain are simply recording/moving/amplifying that original electrical signal. That is the easy part. As long as the basics have been executed correctly, and providing the amplifier is correctly powered to drive the speakers, there is little to choose between them. In my opinion.

You didn't actually answer the question......! Do try again.

Your dismissal of 90% of the recording, mastering and playback chain concerns me too, that degree of certainty suggests a lack of experience.

My opinion is based upon many years of owning and listening to HiFi, as well as a good understanding of the science behind it. I am not dismissing the importance recording at all. I actually identified the moment of recording as being as important as the loudspeakers in the chain in my post. I am also not entirely dismissing the rest of the chain. It does after all still have to do a job. I am just saying that, as long as the basics are right, there is little to choose between them besides aesthetics, warranty, brand loyalty etc.

Mastering I agree with less so as it has nothing at all to do with the HiFi chain and can only altering the original recording. However I do think that badly mastered music is awful. Like I say it's my opinion.

 

[davedotco]

I agree, the speakers are by far the weakest link in any hifi chain. Decent speakers = decent hifi. All the rest is just tweaking that last 0.5%. Having said that. this works to a point, if you have speakers that need a lot of power to drive them, then they won't sound good without a powerful amp.

totally correct. Good advice. A man who understands his components.

But doesn't understand them very well, common enough.

To paraphrase Robert Harley, 'speakers are essentially passive devices, they can not improve the signal that is fed to them'

The signal being fed to the speakers is hugely important, supply a carp signal to great speakers, what do you get....... :?

Serious question.

Audio is picked up by a microphone, essentially through tiny vibrations of a diaphragm caused by soundwaves, and converted to an electrical signal. Loudspeakers attempt to reproduce those original vibrations on a larger scale, recreating the original soundwave that we all hear. The microphone and the loudspeakers are doing the tricky part. The better made these items are the more accurate a representation of the original sound you hear. The other elements in the HiFi chain are simply recording/moving/amplifying that original electrical signal. That is the easy part. As long as the basics have been executed correctly, and providing the amplifier is correctly powered to drive the speakers, there is little to choose between them. In my opinion.

You didn't actually answer the question......! Do try again.

Your dismissal of 90% of the recording, mastering and playback chain concerns me too, that degree of certainty suggests a lack of experience.

My opinion is based upon many years of owning and listening to HiFi, as well as a good understanding of the science behind it. I am not dismissing the importance recording at all. I actually identified the moment of recording as being as important as the loudspeakers in the chain in my post. I am also not entirely dismissing the rest of the chain. It does after all still have to do a job. I am just saying that, as long as the basics are right, there is little to choose between them besides aesthetics, warranty, brand loyalty etc.

Mastering I agree with less so as it has nothing at all to do with the HiFi chain and can only altering the original recording. However I do think that badly mastered music is awful. Like I say it's my opinion.

OK. Lets concentrate on the playback side of things.

When considering an amplifier for a pair of speakers what would you consider to be 'the basics'.

You have some rather nice speakers, reasonably sensitive too. What level of amplifier would you think you need to 'get the basics' right in this instance?

 

[Gazzip]

I agree, the speakers are by far the weakest link in any hifi chain. Decent speakers = decent hifi. All the rest is just tweaking that last 0.5%. Having said that. this works to a point, if you have speakers that need a lot of power to drive them, then they won't sound good without a powerful amp.

totally correct. Good advice. A man who understands his components.

But doesn't understand them very well, common enough.

To paraphrase Robert Harley, 'speakers are essentially passive devices, they can not improve the signal that is fed to them'

The signal being fed to the speakers is hugely important, supply a carp signal to great speakers, what do you get....... :?

Serious question.

Audio is picked up by a microphone, essentially through tiny vibrations of a diaphragm caused by soundwaves, and converted to an electrical signal. Loudspeakers attempt to reproduce those original vibrations on a larger scale, recreating the original soundwave that we all hear. The microphone and the loudspeakers are doing the tricky part. The better made these items are the more accurate a representation of the original sound you hear. The other elements in the HiFi chain are simply recording/moving/amplifying that original electrical signal. That is the easy part. As long as the basics have been executed correctly, and providing the amplifier is correctly powered to drive the speakers, there is little to choose between them. In my opinion.

You didn't actually answer the question......! Do try again.

Your dismissal of 90% of the recording, mastering and playback chain concerns me too, that degree of certainty suggests a lack of experience.

My opinion is based upon many years of owning and listening to HiFi, as well as a good understanding of the science behind it. I am not dismissing the importance recording at all. I actually identified the moment of recording as being as important as the loudspeakers in the chain in my post. I am also not entirely dismissing the rest of the chain. It does after all still have to do a job. I am just saying that, as long as the basics are right, there is little to choose between them besides aesthetics, warranty, brand loyalty etc.

Mastering I agree with less so as it has nothing at all to do with the HiFi chain and can only altering the original recording. However I do think that badly mastered music is awful. Like I say it's my opinion.

OK. Lets concentrate on the playback side of things.

When considering an amplifier for a pair of speakers what would you consider to be 'the basics'.

You have some rather nice speakers, reasonably sensitive too. What level of amplifier would you think you need to 'get the basics' right in this instance?

I am in between speakers at the moment so having upgraded my amps last month in anticipation, I do have a mismatch until my MB2's arrive. I was however previously running these IB2's using a Bryston 4BSST2 at 500W in to 4 Ohms. Then I used a pair or Bryston PowerPac 300's with them for a while, 400W in to 4 Ohms.

So, the power is matched nicely. The only other thing that needs to be done to satisfy "the basics" is to ensure that the power supply can deliver enough juice as and when required. Tick!

Oh yeah, and for me it has to have balanced inputs because my pre-amp is 8m away.

That's it really for the power amplification.

 

[davedotco]

I am in between speakers at the moment so having upgraded my amps last month in anticipation, I do have a mismatch until my MB2's arrive. I was however previously running these IB2's using a Bryston 4BSST2 at 500W in to 4 Ohms. Then I used a pair or Bryston PowerPac 300's with them for a while, 400W in to 4 Ohms.

So, the power is matched nicely. The only other thing that needs to be done to satisfy "the basics" is to ensure that the power supply can deliver enough juice as and when required. Tick!

Oh yeah, and for me it has to have balanced inputs because my pre-amp is 8m away.

That's it really for the power amplification.

What I am intreagued with is your choice of amplifiers, very powerful, yet the speakers are fairly sensitive. Power wise they are clearly more than adequate for the job, unless you play at outrageous levels I am at a loss to see why you need such power.

Surely by your own criteria, a less powerful and expensive amplifier would suffice, maybe PMC's own DS 001 mono blocks for example.

Adequate power, decent power supply, balanced inputs, why pay more?

 

[Gazzip]

I am in between speakers at the moment so having upgraded my amps last month in anticipation, I do have a mismatch until my MB2's arrive. I was however previously running these IB2's using a Bryston 4BSST2 at 500W in to 4 Ohms. Then I used a pair or Bryston PowerPac 300's with them for a while, 400W in to 4 Ohms.

So, the power is matched nicely. The only other thing that needs to be done to satisfy "the basics" is to ensure that the power supply can deliver enough juice as and when required. Tick!

Oh yeah, and for me it has to have balanced inputs because my pre-amp is 8m away.

That's it really for the power amplification.

What I am intreagued with is your choice of amplifiers, very powerful, yet the speakers are fairly sensitive. Power wise they are clearly more than adequate for the job, unless you play at outrageous levels I am at a loss to see why you need such power.

Surely by your own criteria, a less powerful and expensive amplifier would suffice, maybe PMC's own DS 001 mono blocks for example.

Adequate power, decent power supply, balanced inputs, why pay more?

The 7BBST2's? As recommended and as supplied by PMC to partner their MB2SE's?

Don't want to argue with you fella. I have my beliefs and you have yours. It's what makes the world go round.

 

[davedotco]

I am in between speakers at the moment so having upgraded my amps last month in anticipation, I do have a mismatch until my MB2's arrive. I was however previously running these IB2's using a Bryston 4BSST2 at 500W in to 4 Ohms. Then I used a pair or Bryston PowerPac 300's with them for a while, 400W in to 4 Ohms.

So, the power is matched nicely. The only other thing that needs to be done to satisfy "the basics" is to ensure that the power supply can deliver enough juice as and when required. Tick!

Oh yeah, and for me it has to have balanced inputs because my pre-amp is 8m away.

That's it really for the power amplification.

What I am intreagued with is your choice of amplifiers, very powerful, yet the speakers are fairly sensitive. Power wise they are clearly more than adequate for the job, unless you play at outrageous levels I am at a loss to see why you need such power.

Surely by your own criteria, a less powerful and expensive amplifier would suffice, maybe PMC's own DS 001 mono blocks for example.

Adequate power, decent power supply, balanced inputs, why pay more?

The 7BBST2's? As recommended and as supplied by PMC to partner their MB2SE's?

Don't want to argue with you fella. I have my beliefs and you have yours. It's what makes the world go round.

No arguments, I'm genuinely interested in your views. You have some serious speakers and amplifiers and I am trying to get a handle on how your experiences with equipment of this quality have led you to the views that started this exchange.

FYI. The PMC DS 001 are inexpensive monoblocks, 200wpc for just £1200-ish.

 

[Gazzip]

I am in between speakers at the moment so having upgraded my amps last month in anticipation, I do have a mismatch until my MB2's arrive. I was however previously running these IB2's using a Bryston 4BSST2 at 500W in to 4 Ohms. Then I used a pair or Bryston PowerPac 300's with them for a while, 400W in to 4 Ohms.

So, the power is matched nicely. The only other thing that needs to be done to satisfy "the basics" is to ensure that the power supply can deliver enough juice as and when required. Tick!

Oh yeah, and for me it has to have balanced inputs because my pre-amp is 8m away.

That's it really for the power amplification.

What I am intreagued with is your choice of amplifiers, very powerful, yet the speakers are fairly sensitive. Power wise they are clearly more than adequate for the job, unless you play at outrageous levels I am at a loss to see why you need such power.

Surely by your own criteria, a less powerful and expensive amplifier would suffice, maybe PMC's own DS 001 mono blocks for example.

Adequate power, decent power supply, balanced inputs, why pay more?

The 7BBST2's? As recommended and as supplied by PMC to partner their MB2SE's?

Don't want to argue with you fella. I have my beliefs and you have yours. It's what makes the world go round.

No arguments, I'm genuinely interested in your views. You have some serious speakers and amplifiers and I am trying to get a handle on how your experiences with equipment of this quality have led you to the views that started this exchange.

FYI. The PMC DS 001 are inexpensive monoblocks, 200wpc for just £1200-ish.

They probably are just as good as the Bryston amps, but I do think that they are underpowered for the speakers I have on order.

Power is very much required to deal with peak loading. A transient like a snare drum rim hit for example, (loud and sudden), puts a tremendous amount of demand on the amplification section and the power supply section of any amplifier. For a brief period the amplifier will require much more oomph than it usually would. Too little power and you will experience reduced headroom, distortion and possible clipping.

One of the main reasons I went for Bryston, apart from the fact that PMC recommend and supply them, they actually physically installed them for me in my listening room BTW, is because I like their approach to customer care and warranties. 20 years and transferable is not bad and I think unique in this industry? When I historically had an issue with a unit they replaced the offending amp with a new one. No quibbles, no arguments, just new boxes on my doorstep and an apology.

 

[Gazzip]

BTW, had I posted my views on the rest of the HiFi chain being mostly irrelevant but myself only owning cheaper models, then somebody on here would have jumped on me claiming that I hadn't experienced high end and had no right to comment. Either way I wouldn't win my point!

 

[Gazzip]

PPS I am also not saying that all amps sound the same. I believe that some have a "house sound", Cyrus and Arcam being good examples of this. This is absolutely necessary to satisfy all tastes and there is nothing wrong with it. The house sound should not however be considered as enhanced sound quality in anything more than a subjective way. Some people like the colour blue, some the colour red, etc. etc.

 

[sublime]

PPS I am also not saying that all amps sound the same. I believe that some have a "house sound", Cyrus and Arcam being good examples of this. This is absolutely necessary to satisfy all tastes and there is nothing wrong with it. The house sound should not however be considered as enhanced sound quality in anything more than a subjective way. Some people like the colour blue, some the colour red, etc. etc.

true dat

 

[pauln]

I agree, the speakers are by far the weakest link in any hifi chain. Decent speakers = decent hifi. All the rest is just tweaking that last 0.5%. Having said that. this works to a point, if you have speakers that need a lot of power to drive them, then they won't sound good without a powerful amp.

totally correct. Good advice. A man who understands his components.

But doesn't understand them very well, common enough.

To paraphrase Robert Harley, 'speakers are essentially passive devices, they can not improve the signal that is fed to them'

The signal being fed to the speakers is hugely important, supply a carp signal to great speakers, what do you get....... :?

Serious question.

Audio is picked up by a microphone, essentially through tiny vibrations of a diaphragm caused by soundwaves, and converted to an electrical signal. Loudspeakers attempt to reproduce those original vibrations on a larger scale, recreating the original soundwave that we all hear. The microphone and the loudspeakers are doing the tricky part. The better made these items are the more accurate a representation of the original sound you hear. The other elements in the HiFi chain are simply recording/moving/amplifying that original electrical signal. That is the easy part. As long as the basics have been executed correctly, and providing the amplifier is correctly powered to drive the speakers, there is little to choose between them. In my opinion.

Good sensible advice I would say.

 

[sublime]

I agree, the speakers are by far the weakest link in any hifi chain. Decent speakers = decent hifi. All the rest is just tweaking that last 0.5%. Having said that. this works to a point, if you have speakers that need a lot of power to drive them, then they won't sound good without a powerful amp.

totally correct. Good advice. A man who understands his components.

But doesn't understand them very well, common enough.

To paraphrase Robert Harley, 'speakers are essentially passive devices, they can not improve the signal that is fed to them'

The signal being fed to the speakers is hugely important, supply a carp signal to great speakers, what do you get....... :?

Serious question.

Audio is picked up by a microphone, essentially through tiny vibrations of a diaphragm caused by soundwaves, and converted to an electrical signal. Loudspeakers attempt to reproduce those original vibrations on a larger scale, recreating the original soundwave that we all hear. The microphone and the loudspeakers are doing the tricky part. The better made these items are the more accurate a representation of the original sound you hear. The other elements in the HiFi chain are simply recording/moving/amplifying that original electrical signal. That is the easy part. As long as the basics have been executed correctly, and providing the amplifier is correctly powered to drive the speakers, there is little to choose between them. In my opinion.

Good sensible advice I would say.

I don't fully agree with that. When my amplifier was modded a lot of the work that went into it was done to reduce noise from the power supply (as well as fitting boutique opamps, resistors and caps) - the end result was a much cleaner sound. My point is that amps with higher quality parts and attention to power supply do sound better.

I'm still learning about all of this btw

 

[Gazzip]

I agree, the speakers are by far the weakest link in any hifi chain. Decent speakers = decent hifi. All the rest is just tweaking that last 0.5%. Having said that. this works to a point, if you have speakers that need a lot of power to drive them, then they won't sound good without a powerful amp.

totally correct. Good advice. A man who understands his components.

But doesn't understand them very well, common enough.

To paraphrase Robert Harley, 'speakers are essentially passive devices, they can not improve the signal that is fed to them'

The signal being fed to the speakers is hugely important, supply a carp signal to great speakers, what do you get....... :?

Serious question.

Audio is picked up by a microphone, essentially through tiny vibrations of a diaphragm caused by soundwaves, and converted to an electrical signal. Loudspeakers attempt to reproduce those original vibrations on a larger scale, recreating the original soundwave that we all hear. The microphone and the loudspeakers are doing the tricky part. The better made these items are the more accurate a representation of the original sound you hear. The other elements in the HiFi chain are simply recording/moving/amplifying that original electrical signal. That is the easy part. As long as the basics have been executed correctly, and providing the amplifier is correctly powered to drive the speakers, there is little to choose between them. In my opinion.

Good sensible advice I would say.

I don't fully agree with that. When my amplifier was modded a lot of the work that went into it was done to reduce noise from the power supply (as well as fitting boutique opamps, resistors and caps) - the end result was a much cleaner sound. My point is that amps with higher quality parts and attention to power supply do sound better.

I'm still learning about all of this btw

we are all always learning about this. If you take a look at my later posts you will see that I am totally in agreement about the importance of the power supply in the amp. This is what I class as the basics being done correctly.