Cno Evil - Linn Silver interconnect question

Ambrose

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Hi Cno.
I was hoping you (or other members) maybe able to describe this cable? I am thinking of taking a punt on ebay auction as I am not completely happy with the sound from my system and I have been experimenting with interconnects to find something I like.

I have tried a few and the Chord Crimson is sounding nice at low volumes (which is more the norm) but a bit harder on ears at moderate volumes as a general rule. The Mark Grant serve up great soundstage and bass and listenable at volume but missing mojo that the Chord has and the highes are not very clear like the Chord.

Anyway, my question is, knowing you like the Linn Silver, and my dealer suggested this as well, what is it strengths/weaknesses please? Note I cannot afford full price and not happy to loan cable with no intention of buying it.

Also, I have a local ebay auction which has a cable split and reterminated by the Missing link. Is this one a bad idea in your opinion?
I would feel more comfortable to bid with some positive feedback.
Thanks in advance
Ambrose
 

CnoEvil

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Hi Ambrose, I'll do my best with this one.

I find the Linn cables just sound "right"....ie. No exaggerated treble/sibilance, no lean mids and no ott bass; just a musical sound. The Blacks give a taste of this, with the Silvers sounding similar but better in every department, including detail.

I would only get the genuine article (1.2M), that has not been messed with. It used to be possible to get them on ebay for £115-130, but I don't know the going rate atm.

One possibility would be to try and get some "Blacks" for about £15-20 to give you a flavour of the sound, and sell them on if necessary.

I find them a fit and forget i/c, which is quite at home in an expensive system....bear in mind that I don't like a cable to introduce any "brittleness" into the system, but produce a clean, clear and musical sound, without reducing the excitement. This is all so subjective, but I hope I've helped a little.

Report back with how you get on

Cno

Edit. Here are some:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Linn-Silver-Interconnect-cables-1-2m-/130733171987?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item1e704de513#ht_500wt_1282
 

Ambrose

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CnoEvil said:
Hi Ambrose, I'll do my best with this one.

I find the Linn cables just sound "right"....ie. No exaggerated treble/sibilance, no lean mids and no ott bass; just a musical sound. The Blacks give a taste of this, with the Silvers sounding similar but better in every department, including detail.

I would only get the genuine article (1.2M), that has not been messed with. It used to be possible to get them on ebay for £115-130, but I don't know the going rate atm. One possibility would be to try and get some "Blacks" for about £15-20 to give you a flavour of the sound, and sell them on if necessary. I find them a fit and forget i/c, which is quite at home in an expensive system....bear in mind that I don't like a cable to introduce any "brittleness" into the system, but produce a clean, clear and musical sound, without reducing the excitement. This is all so subjective, but I hope I've helped a little. Report back with how you get on Cno Edit. Here are some: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Linn-Silver-Interconnect-cables-1-2m-/130733171987?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item1e704de513#ht_500wt_1282[/quote]

Hi Cno,

Thanks for your time to reply. They do sound like what I am after, something that lets the music sound as it should without excess bias in extremes and of course musical. I'll go for std 1.2m once I have made up my mind black / silver.

I have found my old open frame stands and chord crimson to be very fast sounding and quite transparent which has helped alot, just need a more refined, fuller and hopefully even greater insight from my system now.

I think it will come down to interconnect choice and possibly other stands like perhaps custom design fs104 signature as these sound right for my system from the what hifi review.

PS cable now sold!! maybe someone read this post!

Almost there!!

Cheers

Ambrose
 

CnoEvil

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Linn Silvers don't hang about at that price....the cheapest they can be got new is from Peter Tyson on ebay:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Linn-Silver-Phono-Interconnects-Latest-2012-Klimax-/221044737908?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item33774b0774#ht_580wt_1142

The Linn Blacks may not initially sound as dramatic as the Chords, but give them a chance. Here are some brewing at the moment:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Linn-Interconnector-1-2-mtrs-/300741219052?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item460592d2ec#ht_500wt_1282
 

shooter

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I've played around with a few IC's over the years and the one that always sticks in my mind for pure vfm is the Kimber Timbre.

I compared it to IC's costing over 1k and it was so close to my prefured cable the Cardas it was nearly a no brainer, it just lacked the solidity a good IC can add but for around £60 on the used market...
 

Ambrose

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CnoEvil said:
Linn Silvers don't hang about at that price....the cheapest they can be got new is from Peter Tyson on ebay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Linn-Silver-Phono-Interconnects-Latest-2012-Klimax-/221044737908?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item33774b0774#ht_580wt_1142 The Linn Blacks may not initially sound as dramatic as the Chords, but give them a chance. Here are some brewing at the moment: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Linn-Interconnector-1-2-mtrs-/300741219052?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item460592d2ec#ht_500wt_1282[/quote]

Thanks, I am watching!!!

Currently enjoying Queen Sweat Lady! The open frame stands i found in loft and using stands unique carbon fibre risers on the stands and really impressive speed / clarity. Make me tingle what the silvers could deliver!!!
 

Ambrose

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shooter said:
I've played around with a few IC's over the years and the one that always sticks in my mind for pure vfm is the Kimber Timbre.

I compared it to IC's costing over 1k and it was so close to my prefured cable the Cardas it was nearly a no brainer, it just lacked the solidity a good IC can add but for around £60 on the used market...

Thanks Shooter. Sound good but the lack of solidity does put me off a little. Might take a look into still ;-)
 

shooter

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Ambrose said:
shooter said:
I've played around with a few IC's over the years and the one that always sticks in my mind for pure vfm is the Kimber Timbre.

I compared it to IC's costing over 1k and it was so close to my prefured cable the Cardas it was nearly a no brainer, it just lacked the solidity a good IC can add but for around £60 on the used market...

Thanks Shooter. Sound good but the lack of solidity does put me off a little. Might take a look into still ;-)

For me the Timbre is the best cable out there around the 100 - 200 pound bracket and I wouldn't be put off by its lack of solidity, (maybe body is a better word) Comparing it side by side though not a fair fight was an eye opener and i would of been very happy to have it in my system if i hadn't come across the Cardas Golden Ref that cost 10 x as much. I must add it beat a pair of highly rated Acoustic Zen Silver Ref hands down, it was no competition.

The Timbre has a very good balance top to bottom, nothing bloated, nother exagerated and it gets out the way and lets the system play, its a little gem.
 

Ambrose

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CnoEvil said:
Hi Ambrose, I'll do my best with this one.

I find the Linn cables just sound "right"....ie. No exaggerated treble/sibilance, no lean mids and no ott bass; just a musical sound. The Blacks give a taste of this, with the Silvers sounding similar but better in every department, including detail.

I would only get the genuine article (1.2M), that has not been messed with. It used to be possible to get them on ebay for £115-130, but I don't know the going rate atm. One possibility would be to try and get some "Blacks" for about £15-20 to give you a flavour of the sound, and sell them on if necessary. I find them a fit and forget i/c, which is quite at home in an expensive system....bear in mind that I don't like a cable to introduce any "brittleness" into the system, but produce a clean, clear and musical sound, without reducing the excitement. This is all so subjective, but I hope I've helped a little. Report back with how you get on Cno Edit. Here are some: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Linn-Silver-Interconnect-cables-1-2m-/130733171987?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item1e704de513#ht_500wt_1282

Well I took a punt on ebay! Waiting for some Silvers in the post next week.
Hope I have made the right choice.
I have a few cables to compare against so will try and report back.
Chord Crimson
Mark Grant G1500HD
VDH First Ultimate
QED Silver Spiral
Linn Silver

Have also just won some Partington Super Dreads to test on! Getting closer to satisfied.
Looking for good soundstage in that doesn't sound like music coming from speakers.
Solid sound with nice bass definition and clear vocals plus transparency, particularly at lower volumes.
Predictions???
Really looking forward to this.
Ambrose
 

CnoEvil

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Ambrose said:
Well I took a punt on ebay! Waiting for some Silvers in the post next week. Hope I have made the right choice. I have a few cables to compare against so will try and report back. Chord Crimson Mark Grant G1500HD VDH First Ultimate QED Silver Spiral Linn Silver Have also just won some Partington Super Dreads to test on! Getting closer to satisfied. Looking for good soundstage in that doesn't sound like music coming from speakers. Solid sound with nice bass definition and clear vocals plus transparency, particularly at lower volumes. Predictions??? Really looking forward to this. Ambrose

IMO You've just bagged youself two very good accessories. Don't instal them at the same time, so that you can assess the worth of each. If you don't find the Silvers as I've described, you should get what you paid for them.

Looking forward to your findings.

Cno
 

oldric_naubhoff

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Ambrose said:
Looking for good soundstage in that doesn't sound like music coming from speakers.

I know exactly what you mean. sorry for bringing bad news but if you really want to get big soundstage you'll either have to change your speakers for some line source or move your listening room into an anechoic chamber. no cables will give you what you're looking for.

the reason is that conventional speakers have conical shaped dispersion pattern which is very prone to interact with room boundaries. you get a lot of early reflections from walls, floor and ceiling. human hearing works in this way that it compares direct sound with reflections to locate the source of sound. so, if you could get rid of early reflections from speakers then they would not be perceived as sound source. instead the apparent soundstage generated by speakers would be seen as sound source.

like I said there are only 2 options here for you to consider (at least I know of only 2). you move to an anechoic chamber. or you get yourself some linesource type speakers because linesource deals with much of conventional speakers weaknesses re. early reflections; they virtually eliminate early reflections from floor and ceiling and in case of dipole speakers you get little wall reflections too because of dipole cancellation at speakers' sides.

in my case; I used to have small monitor speakers on stands. they were great but the soundstage vertically never really seemed much larger than speakers themselves. the soundstage seemed like a rift in space on tweeter level and slightly above and below it. I've always thought that this is the way it should be so never bothered to change it. until I laid my hands on Magnepans. incidentally they are dipole linesource speakers apart from being ribbon magnetostatic. now I have a soundstage that is as high as my front wall and instruments get much more realistic sizes. for instance small/ beaming instruments, like saxes or flutes or acoustic guitars, are "seen" like this. (I should qualify this statement in that a lot depends on recording technique. close micked instruments sound much more beaming that if they were recorded from afar. a lot depends on direct/ reflected sound ratio recorded from an instrument). but large/ expansive instruments, like pianos or vibraphones or cellos, are also "seen" large.
 

shooter

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oldric_naubhoff said:
Ambrose said:
Looking for good soundstage in that doesn't sound like music coming from speakers.

I know exactly what you mean. sorry for bringing bad news but if you really want to get big soundstage you'll either have to change your speakers for some line source or move your listening room into an anechoic chamber. no cables will give you what you're looking for.
To true. Maybe some speaker repositioning will bring greater reward in the short term and longer term changing the speakers. It should be quite easy to get a soundstage with the Naits, how do have them?

I'm not a fan of soundstage tbh but i do like speakers to disappear, and that can be quit a challenge at times.
 

CnoEvil

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Macspur said:
Do you happen to know if they do the silvers in XLR?

Cheers

Mac

Yes Mac, they do.
http://www.rococosystems.com/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=Sil-Bal-Intercon-12&sid=16l94t39929gsa00c36366wru80jmnr4
 

Macspur

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CnoEvil said:
Macspur said:
Do you happen to know if they do the silvers in XLR?

Cheers

Mac

Yes Mac, they do. http://www.rococosystems.com/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=Sil-Bal-Intercon-12&sid=16l94t39929gsa00c36366wru80jmnr4

Thanks for that Cno. Would they come close to the balanced Cardas?

Cheers

Mac
 

Ambrose

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shooter said:
oldric_naubhoff said:
Ambrose said:
Looking for good soundstage in that doesn't sound like music coming from speakers.

I know exactly what you mean. sorry for bringing bad news but if you really want to get big soundstage you'll either have to change your speakers for some line source or move your listening room into an anechoic chamber. no cables will give you what you're looking for.
To true. Maybe some speaker repositioning will bring greater reward in the short term and longer term changing the speakers. It should be quite easy to get a soundstage with the Naits, how do have them?

I'm not a fan of soundstage tbh but i do like speakers to disappear, and that can be quit a challenge at times.

Hi Shooter,

By Soundstage I mean vocals are positioned forward into the room and left/right and you can distinguish layers of sounds (vocals/instuments) within. Nothing too amazing but enough as you say for speakers to disappear.

I currently have some open frame stands (from 90s) and some borrowed old Apollo heavy stands 7kg each. Sound is very different from each. Fast open and more detailed from open frame and much beefier and bigger sound stage from heavy stands. Does kinda trample over the sound though with heavy stands.

I have won some Partington Super D's so hoping best of both worlds???

Speakers are placed 30-40cm from back wall depending which stands, 220cm approx apart and 3m from listening position measureing from middle of speakers. Ear height to tweeter and a very slight toe in.

Also, using stands unique carbon fibre spacers ontop of stands instead of bluetac. Seem to sound better.

Any tips gratefully received.

Thanks guys.

Ambrose
 

CnoEvil

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Ambrose said:
Speakers are placed 30-40cm from back wall depending which stands, 220cm approx apart and 3m from listening position measureing from middle of speakers. Ear height to tweeter and a very slight toe in.

Also, using stands unique carbon fibre spacers ontop of stands instead of bluetac. Seem to sound better.

Any tips gratefully received.

Thanks guys.

Ambrose

Is your floor suspended?
 

CnoEvil

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Macspur said:
Thanks for that Cno. Would they come close to the balanced Cardas?

Cheers

Mac

I reckon the Silvers will give you 75% of the Cardas Golden Cross, and have a similar tonal character (though not as gloriusly natural) - and this is something that I don't usually admit to.
 

Ambrose

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CnoEvil said:
Ambrose said:
Speakers are placed 30-40cm from back wall depending which stands, 220cm approx apart and 3m from listening position measureing from middle of speakers. Ear height to tweeter and a very slight toe in.

Also, using stands unique carbon fibre spacers ontop of stands instead of bluetac. Seem to sound better.

Any tips gratefully received.

Thanks guys.

Ambrose

Is your floor suspended?

Hi Cno,

No, on ground floor and on carpet (concrete underneath) with spikes.

I will get some photo's done in next week or so once I have new standsso easier to see than describe!
 

Ambrose

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oldric_naubhoff said:
Ambrose said:
Looking for good soundstage in that doesn't sound like music coming from speakers.

I know exactly what you mean. sorry for bringing bad news but if you really want to get big soundstage you'll either have to change your speakers for some line source or move your listening room into an anechoic chamber. no cables will give you what you're looking for.

the reason is that conventional speakers have conical shaped dispersion pattern which is very prone to interact with room boundaries. you get a lot of early reflections from walls, floor and ceiling. human hearing works in this way that it compares direct sound with reflections to locate the source of sound. so, if you could get rid of early reflections from speakers then they would not be perceived as sound source. instead the apparent soundstage generated by speakers would be seen as sound source.

like I said there are only 2 options here for you to consider (at least I know of only 2). you move to an anechoic chamber. or you get yourself some linesource type speakers because linesource deals with much of conventional speakers weaknesses re. early reflections; they virtually eliminate early reflections from floor and ceiling and in case of dipole speakers you get little wall reflections too because of dipole cancellation at speakers' sides.

in my case; I used to have small monitor speakers on stands. they were great but the soundstage vertically never really seemed much larger than speakers themselves. the soundstage seemed like a rift in space on tweeter level and slightly above and below it. I've always thought that this is the way it should be so never bothered to change it. until I laid my hands on Magnepans. incidentally they are dipole linesource speakers apart from being ribbon magnetostatic. now I have a soundstage that is as high as my front wall and instruments get much more realistic sizes. for instance small/ beaming instruments, like saxes or flutes or acoustic guitars, are "seen" like this. (I should qualify this statement in that a lot depends on recording technique. close micked instruments sound much more beaming that if they were recorded from afar. a lot depends on direct/ reflected sound ratio recorded from an instrument). but large/ expansive instruments, like pianos or vibraphones or cellos, are also "seen" large.

Hi Oldric,

Interesting stuff indeed and can see why Maggies are popular. I agree the soundstage at tweeter level is markedly different (better) than above and below. Something I discovered in that the 2 sets of speaker stands I have been experimenting with are different heights.

The soundstage was more there when on heavy stands and volume cranked up and some cables were better than others in creating this illusion. However, I listen mostly at low volumes as only can listen in evening when my boy is in bed and involves moving stands downstairs / setting up which is not good but I cannot do without music. I measure stand positioning to be the same (as near as possible) each time. Very sad I know! Also in semi detached house so have to fair to neighbours.

I have a large coffee table in between speaker and seat, wonder how this changes sound. We might move the table in time out of interest so may be helpful.

Just trying to get the best musical sound to immerse in with what I have for the near future.

Cheers

Ambrose

PS - When I visit dealer next will ask to hear Maggies as they stock them now. They look like office wall partitiions though!!!
 

CnoEvil

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Ambrose said:
Hi Cno,

No, on ground floor and on carpet (concrete underneath) with spikes.

I will get some photo's done in next week or so once I have new standsso easier to see than describe!

Thanks for the info.

I think it's easier to get the bass right in this scenario. There is a view that in this case, you should couple the speakers to the metal stands (ie. avoiding Blu-Tac and the like), so that they can transmit the vibrations to the concrete floor, and "sink" them into it. This will happen provided the spikes are pushed through the carpet and into the concrete.
Here is a relevant article: http://www.zenn.com.sg/Speakerstands.htm

If still feeling strong, here is another article about what spikes do:
http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/speaker-spikes-and-cones-2013-what2019s-the-point

I've found that a little time spent messing about with coupling/de-coupling/isolation/mass loading/positioning, can pay dividends. No one solution fits every situation, as the interplay between speaker and stand and room varies, as well as personal preference over the sound.

Cno
 

oldric_naubhoff

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Ambrose said:
Hi Oldric,

Interesting stuff indeed and can see why Maggies are popular. I agree the soundstage at tweeter level is markedly different (better) than above and below. Something I discovered in that the 2 sets of speaker stands I have been experimenting with are different heights.

The soundstage was more there when on heavy stands and volume cranked up and some cables were better than others in creating this illusion. However, I listen mostly at low volumes as only can listen in evening when my boy is in bed and involves moving stands downstairs / setting up which is not good but I cannot do without music. I measure stand positioning to be the same (as near as possible) each time. Very sad I know! Also in semi detached house so have to fair to neighbours.

I have a large coffee table in between speaker and seat, wonder how this changes sound. We might move the table in time out of interest so may be helpful.

Just trying to get the best musical sound to immerse in with what I have for the near future.

Cheers

Ambrose

PS - When I visit dealer next will ask to hear Maggies as they stock them now. They look like office wall partitiions though!!!

your remark regarding the look of Magnepans is spot on IMO! :) this was the main reason I was ruling out planar speakers from any consideration for future upgrades. I just couldn't cope with a thought how could anyone want some room dividers for speakers when they could have so cute wooden boxes. that was until I heard electrostatic headphones in action (Stax). I was immediately struck by the richness of colour of sound and natural decay of instruments. and despite them reproducing much low level detail they didn't sound at all analytic. only natural. and then I red a bit about benefits of planar speaker technology. I was considering getting some S/H Quads ESL for a try but I concluded they were too wide to fit comfortably in my room. MG12 are narrower so I decided to try out Magnepans instead. not quite ESL speakers but they are also flat so I thought they should be working similarly.

so basically when I was deciding to change speakers for planars I was after more definition and resolution. but the first thing that stuck me and came wit a surprise when I hooked up MG12s was the size of the stage. immediately rift in space changed into wall of sound. soon after it turned out that they bring in much more then just large sound stage. more low level detail (so what has been hidden behind front plane now can be heard, but does not bring attention to itself), better focus (that came as a big surprise for me because I knew the speakers radiate front and back so I thought the sound will be more diffused compared to my previous speakers), more definition to sound of instruments, clearer speech. as a point of reference; I used to have Dynaudio Focus 110 immediately before MG12.

now, even though there are many satisfied owners of Magnepan speakers and they definitely do it right for me I know some people just don't get along with them well. so if you go for an audition don't have too high hopes. you might be completely disappointed. although I bought mine blind and never regretted. and their look doesn't bother me anymore too. in fact now I think they look quite handsome. I got mine in off white so it blends in nicely with the colour of walls. doesn't look like a big black hole in the middle of the room.
 

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Snippet from Neat:

Q: POSITIONING
Where can the speakers be placed?

A: There is no absolute answer to this question. Because each room has its own peculiarities, results will vary from one room to another. In most situations, a starting point of 12 inches (30cm) from the rear wall and 24" (60cm) from side walls will give clues. Moving the speakers back or further apart will increase bass quantity. At a certain point, bass may become overwhelming and cause congestion in the midrange.

Moving the speakers forward (and/or closer together) from the starting point will lighten the bass and, at the same time, provide a more focused image. Toeing the speaker inward (20 degrees to start) will affect these aspects of the sound too. Experimentation is essential.

If you have the room to experiment it may be worth it.
 

Ambrose

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CnoEvil said:
Ambrose said:
Well I took a punt on ebay! Waiting for some Silvers in the post next week. Hope I have made the right choice. I have a few cables to compare against so will try and report back. Chord Crimson Mark Grant G1500HD VDH First Ultimate QED Silver Spiral Linn Silver Have also just won some Partington Super Dreads to test on! Getting closer to satisfied. Looking for good soundstage in that doesn't sound like music coming from speakers. Solid sound with nice bass definition and clear vocals plus transparency, particularly at lower volumes. Predictions??? Really looking forward to this. Ambrose

IMO You've just bagged youself two very good accessories. Don't instal them at the same time, so that you can assess the worth of each. If you don't find the Silvers as I've described, you should get what you paid for them.

Looking forward to your findings.

Cno

Picked up my new shiny and "as new" Super Dreadnoughts last night and they seemed lighter and smaller than I imagined.

Had a brief window to setup and run a couple of tracks to gauge initial impressions and if they were likely keepers or not.

Tested with 4 small blobs of bluetac, yet to try without or with my stands unique carbon fibre spacers which seem to work well also.

My word, I have really been selling my system short it seems. Making much more sense now, not that it was bad.

Everything is better positioned and separated now with greater fine detailing and good control.

Particularly impressive listen on Lord of the rings disc 1 Amon Hen track, the richness and sound of orchestra much more like being there. Thought I'd nearly cracked the stands thing but more than pleasently surprised I was wrong.

Also, switching interconnects I keep coming back to Chord Crimson, even though I have far more expense cables to compare to. They just are so musical, dynamic (foot tapping/ fist clenching) and well balanced. If the Linn Silvers have similar traits I will be estactic!!!

Ambrose
 

CnoEvil

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Ambrose said:
Picked up my new shiny and "as new" Super Dreadnoughts last night and they seemed lighter and smaller than I imagined.

Had a brief window to setup and run a couple of tracks to gauge initial impressions and if they were likely keepers or not.

Tested with 4 small blobs of bluetac, yet to try without or with my stands unique carbon fibre spacers which seem to work well also.

My word, I have really been selling my system short it seems. Making much more sense now, not that it was bad.

Everything is better positioned and separated now with greater fine detailing and good control.

Particularly impressive listen on Lord of the rings disc 1 Amon Hen track, the richness and sound of orchestra much more like being there. Thought I'd nearly cracked the stands thing but more than pleasently surprised I was wrong.

Also, switching interconnects I keep coming back to Chord Crimson, even though I have far more expense cables to compare to. They just are so musical, dynamic (foot tapping/ fist clenching) and well balanced. If the Linn Silvers have similar traits I will be estactic!!!

Ambrose

Glad that the stands are proving their worth (they can have a surprising effect).....that just leaves the Silvers....Oh, the pressure!
 

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