Clearaudio concept with either ortofon 2m bronze or black

[rayolight]

Considering upgrading the mm on my clearaudio concept turntable, the two I am interested in are the Ortofon 2m bronze or black.
I would be very grateful for any recommendations as to which would be the best choice and also any tips or precautions to take when fitting. I believe from a couple of other sites that I have looked at the 2m bronze is highly recommended.,but happy to pay the extra for the black if it is justified.
Thanks

 

[nopiano]

I think the profile of the tip on the Black would make the Bronze a better choice, as alignment on the Black is more critical.

 

[daytona600]

2M Bronze if you like , upgrade the stylus & pop in a black or LVB stylus

 

[Al ears]

Certainly when it comes to cost / performance the Bronze might be the way to go. As stated some people find the Black to be very analytical and the Bronze a better all rounder.
However you may be better off with one of Clearaudios own cartridges....

 

[rayolight]

Have ordered the 2m bronze, watch this space for comments 👍

 

[Al ears]

Have ordered the 2m bronze, watch this space for comments 👍

I don't think you will be disappointed once correctly set-up

 

[rayolight]

Fitted the cartridge with no real difficulty, and have to say first impressions are very good plenty of detail,tight bass, big improvement on the stock clearaudio mm,will see how it sounds after some burn in time

 

[Al ears]

Fitted the cartridge with no real difficulty, and have to say first impressions are very good plenty of detail,tight bass, big improvement on the stock clearaudio mm,will see how it sounds after some burn in time

excellent, good to hear.

 

[Gray]

....will see how it sounds after some burn in time

Ah, good old burn in 😁my favourite subject.
I understand the cartridge is an electro-mechanical device, so perceived wisdom tells us all that, more than most things, a cartridge will benefit from 'burn-in'.
However, a cartridge has a compliance figure (important when matching to the arm mass).

Burn in is a loosening up, right?
So, do we assume the compliance increases?
If not, why not?
And if so, why has that never been mentioned in reviews?
Or would it not significantly change?
(Enough to magically change the sound, always for the better of course- without changing the compliance meaurement 🤔).

Serious question: for devotees of burn in:
What is it that burn in is changing?

 

[Al ears]

Ah, good old burn in 😁my favourite subject.
I understand the cartridge is an electro-mechanical device, so perceived wisdom tells us all that, more than most things, a cartridge will benefit from 'burn-in'.
However, a cartridge has a compliance figure (fairly important to it's matching to the arm).

Burn in is a loosening up right?
So, do we assume the compliance increases?
If not. Why not?
And if so, why has that never been mentioned in reviews?
Or would it not significantly change?
Serious questions for devotees of burn in.

Ducks for cover......

 

[Gray]

Ducks for cover......

😄
Sorry, I've got no intention of derailing this thread......it's just that 'burn-in' is such a catch all term that needs to be questioned.

....but not now 👍

 

[rayolight]

Very happy with the way it sounds now, so,if there is no "burn in" improvement, still consider it to have been a worthwhile purchase👍

 

[plastic penguin]

Very happy with the way it sounds now, so,if there is no "burn in" improvement, still consider it to have been a worthwhile purchase👍

What was the previous cartridge?

 

[rayolight]

It was the Clearaudio Concept mm V2,the Ortofon simply leaves it in the dust ,I'm probably a bit biased as have the Ortofon 540mk2 on my other turntable, but the increase in detail is amazing, can honestly say I'm now very pleased with the Clearaudio which I certainly wasn't when it first arrived.

 

[plastic penguin]

I have the Concept V2 on the Pro-ject. They suit the Pro-ject's presentation, compared to the Ortofon Silver that came with the table

 

[Al ears]

I have the Concept V2 on the Pro-ject. They suit the Pro-ject's presentation, compared to the Ortofon Silver that came with the table

not surprised as the Silver was basically a slightly tweaked 2M Red....

 

[plastic penguin]

not surprised as the Silver was basically a slightly tweaked 2M Red....

Yep. Bit odd the Silver is difficult to buy without the Classic table.

Not heard the Bronze or higher end Ortofons, but having owned cheaper carts from the Ortofon family in the last 40 years, I'm not convinced.

All I do know is for around £200 ClearAudio is hard to beat.

 

[plastic penguin]

It was the Clearaudio Concept mm V2,the Ortofon simply leaves it in the dust ,I'm probably a bit biased as have the Ortofon 540mk2 on my other turntable, but the increase in detail is amazing, can honestly say I'm now very pleased with the Clearaudio which I certainly wasn't when it first arrived.

In what respect does the Ortofon improve on the ClearAudio?

Perhaps a little further down the line I'll look at cartridges. So far I have Goldring 1042. Owned the Goldring 2500 which bettered the ClearAudio but it was a lot more expensive, until I knackered the stylus

 

[rayolight]

I found the concept to be quite dull,a lack of sparkle,of course this is only my opinion and others will differ. There is far more detail from the Ortofon, words are rounded off if you know what I mean, and the presentation is far more life like.

 

[plastic penguin]

I found the concept to be quite dull,a lack of sparkle,of course this is only my opinion and others will differ. There is far more detail from the Ortofon, words are rounded off if you know what I mean, and the presentation is far more life like.

Thanks.

 

[rayolight]

Thanks.

Just an update on the Ortofon M2 bronze ,I tried it today via the Clearaudio Concept turntable, Arcam r phono preamp, into a 30 year old Pioneer M73 Reference 20 watt Class A PowerAmp with my 35year old Acoustic Energy AE1's, absolutely blown away. The AE1's were always considered to lack bass,not the case with the bronze,super tight bass,another thing playing Joan Armatrading discs, which I tended to have sibilance problems with her S's on some tracks, no sign of it here, superb clarity,guitar strings super clear, plenty of emotion ,really impressed definitely worth considering 👍

 

[plastic penguin]

Just an update on the Ortofon M2 bronze ,I tried it today via the Clearaudio Concept turntable, Arcam r phono preamp, into a 30 year old Pioneer M73 Reference 20 watt Class A PowerAmp with my 35year old Acoustic Energy AE1's, absolutely blown away. The AE1's were always considered to lack bass,not the case with the bronze,super tight bass,another thing playing Joan Armatrading discs, which I tended to have sibilance problems with her S's on some tracks, no sign of it here, superb clarity,guitar strings super clear, plenty of emotion ,really impressed definitely worth considering 👍

Interesting. I find the Concept cart to be forthright while being very organic. No roll off or muddled presentation.

I have owned, fairly recently, the Red and Silver Ortofons. Never been impressed by their more budget models. May just try the Bronze at some point, in no rush though.

Cheers

 

[WayneKerr]

Just an update on the Ortofon M2 bronze ,I tried it today via the Clearaudio Concept turntable, Arcam r phono preamp, into a 30 year old Pioneer M73 Reference 20 watt Class A PowerAmp with my 35year old Acoustic Energy AE1's, absolutely blown away. The AE1's were always considered to lack bass,not the case with the bronze,super tight bass,another thing playing Joan Armatrading discs, which I tended to have sibilance problems with her S's on some tracks, no sign of it here, superb clarity,guitar strings super clear, plenty of emotion ,really impressed definitely worth considering 👍

2M Bronze is my favourite of the Ortofon 2M series too. I believe what you are hearing is down to the stylus profile plus the increased price point too. Micro-line or fine-line styli seem to handle sibilance better than other profiles and are available in most brand ranges.

I moved away from Ortofon some years ago to Nagaoka and currently run an MP500, the MP300 is also a cracking performer as well.

 

[rayolight]

Just a little update, was sooo pleased with the bronze that I decided to bite the bullet and purchase the black stylus, as it's any easy plug in replacement for the bronze.
So glad I did, even without the elusive "burn in "time ,the detail is mind blowing, it really does seem to extract every bit of the music. It's a lot of money and had to do a lot of soul searching before making the purchase however, really pleased with the results and it's very useful to be able to swop back to the bronze without having to go through the set up process which can be fiddly with the Clearaudio Concept turntable. Highly recommend to anyone considering the 2m Black cartridge. Only negative is it does pickup the surface noise on some 180gm disks,but that's a small price to pay for the music gained

 

[WayneKerr]

Just a little update, was sooo pleased with the bronze that I decided to bite the bullet and purchase the black stylus, as it's any easy plug in replacement for the bronze.
So glad I did, even without the elusive "burn in "time ,the detail is mind blowing, it really does seem to extract every bit of the music. It's a lot of money and had to do a lot of soul searching before making the purchase however, really pleased with the results and it's very useful to be able to swop back to the bronze without having to go through the set up process which can be fiddly with the Clearaudio Concept turntable. Highly recommend to anyone considering the 2m Black cartridge. Only negative is it does pickup the surface noise on some 180gm disks,but that's a small price to pay for the music gained

Good to hear you are pleased with the Black I still prefer the Bronze; the needle talk was too much for me with the Black... but I haven't spun an LP for over two-years.