Choosing a Turntable/Tonearm/Cartridge

[1turntable]

I am new to this forum and have very little experience with analogue audio equipment. I have been looking into a new VPI classic 3 with the classic tonearm and Dynavector DV 10x5. Alternatively I have looked into a used (demo) Brinkmann Bardo with the "Origin Live Encounter enhanced" tonearm (3years old), and lyra delos cartridge (also used, not clear for how long). I believe the dealer of the demo Brinkmann is reputable, but I am always concerned about purchasing used goods. I do not believe the turntable in total has been damaged or abused in anyway; I am mostly concerned about the quality of the tonearm. I am not certain what the "Origin Live Encounter enhanced" tonearm is - perhaps he is referring to the origin live encounter mk3c, but I am not sure this was made 3 years ago. I am interested to hear your opinions about these two options.

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[floyd droid]

Who is the dealer ?.

 

[nima]

I am new to this forum and have very little experience with analogue audio equipment.

Then why not start with a simpler and more affordable setup like Rega RP6/8, Michell, Roksan Radius, Linn LP12?

I doubt you will get much experienced advice on this forum on this level of TTs.

I would suggest you find a good Linn dealer and have a listen of LP12 vs. Rega/Michell etc.

 

[1turntable]

I would agree the Linn LP 12 seems like a great option. Though, I'm still interested in hearing commentary regarding the VPI and Brinkmann options I mentioned. Dear Nima: do you have a suggestion where else I should go to get advise fot these 'level TTs' ? I appreciate your advise.

 

[nopiano]

VPI is a classic US brand with an interesting family story. I have heard them at Audio Destinations in Tiverton, Devon. I have never heard a Brinkman. A couple of regulars here have OL gear so may respond. Are you in the UK, because these are both rare items here? The Linn, Michell, Rega path is better understood in the UK.

 

[nopiano]

And you nay get a more in depth opinion here:-

http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=60196

 

[lindsayt]

Of the 2 options in the opening post, I'd go for the Brinkman / OL arm option.

£3k opens up lots of TT / arm / cart options.

I would not go for an LP12 / Rega / Roksan / Michell option.

If I were into jazz I'd consider a 2nd hand Nottingham Analogue Dais.

For disco / dance / hip hop type music I'd go for a Garrard 301 / 401 or Thorens TD124 or modded Lenco with something like a Fidelity Research FR64s arm.

For a variety of music: rock, pop, jazz, and classical I'd go for a classic top of the range direct drive: EMT 948, Trio L07D, Pioneer Exclusive, Technics SP10 Mk2, Denon DP 100, Sony PS-X9, etc etc etc

 

[nima]

Anything beyond LP12 is beyond me really. The problem with forums is you never know whether people are just spreading preconceptions they gathered reading forums, reviews and other useless activities. People that have real knowledge about deck at this price are very very rare and usually don't contribute to forums. And they usually also have quite strong ideas about turntables, that are not necessary universal.

Now, if I contribute my own preconceptios: I would go with Brinkman over VPI anyday, but I would also never buy anthing from OL.

I have heard some systems with Nottingham Analogue TTs, they were very good, but I was left cold.

On the other hand, I have never heard any system with a recent Kuzma TT sounding bad. But based on this experiences I still can not say anything about NA or Kuzma decks.

If you can demo the VPI and Brinkman in the same system, preferably yours, the decision shouldn't be difficult at all. If not, pick between the decks you can properly demo.

The only advice I can give to anyone is to visit as much dealers as possible, listen to as many systems as possible and buy the system that convinces YOU the most. And I mean complete system: not if I take this TT and put on that arm and that cart and use this phono stage...

Find a dealer that you can connect with the sound in his demo room the most and buy everything from him.

But! You say you are new to analogue, I really think you should start in the GBP 1-2k area and find out what are your preferences.

Or just go for the basic LP12 with basic power supply and great "budget" arm as Roksan Nima. You'll have a superb deck with huge upgrade options.

 

[1turntable]

Thank you all for the reply’s. I have similar reservations about the OL tonearm, which is really the motivation behind comparing the VPI and Brinkmann options I mentioned. With that said, it's not that I've heard bad things about OL gear, it's just that I frankly don't know much about them. Unfortunetaly, if I go with the Brinkmann I'm going to have to accept the OL tonarm (which I suppose I could exchange later, but then this investiment is getting way too expensive) - Nima, would you kindly elaborate on why you would 'never buy anything from OL'?

 

[BrianRostron]

I've recently been busy auditioning turntables, so have some experience. I have some sympathy, if you want to audition every possible TT / arm / cart option, then you'll probably have got old and deaf before you finish!

What sort of budget are you thinking of? And the question that never gets asked, even by many specialist dealers, what sort of music do ou want it for?

 

[Tear Drop]

Of all the turntables mentioned thus far the VPI is clearly head and shoulders above the rest. VPI certainly make some of the better turntables that I have had experience of, way better than the Brit brands mentioned. If you are considering the Classic 3 then you should be looking at a cartridge well beyond the capabilities of the 10x5. Have a look further up the Dynvector range, as well as models from Benz, Grado, Ortofon. I love Koetsu too but I'm not sure how well matched they are to the VPI.

 

[steve4232]

What about the Pro-Ject Xtension 10 complete with arm and Ortofon Cadenza Black. That''s another "hot" £3000 full spec deck, no?

I have an LP12 and I HAVE had plenty of experience with OL gear too. Let me just say to all those naysayers and others who are all too quick to repeat something they have read elsewhere, even without first-hand experience of the item, OL make exceptional tone-arms that partner well with a variety of decks / cartridges. OL might not be as "trendy" as Linn / Rega but it is a mistake to ignore them. A lot of dealers are happy to peddle the same old stuff from the bigger companies that offer them lucrative credit options but this does not mean a small company like OL can't compete on quality of product or sound quality. I wonder how many people have actually heard anything OL?

Well I have and I currently run my LP12 with an OL DC power supply / motor and I can tell you something that "Linnies" won't know / care to find out but my "Advanced motor kit" (MK2?) with upgraded transformer unit improved my 30 year old LP12 more than their precious (scandalously over-priced) Lingo II AC supplies could. The OL kit was 1/4 of the price too! Even though I have owned my LP12 for 20 years now and I do really like it still, I must also accept that it is far far from the last word of analogue t/table design. A lot of modern 21st designs including those from OL, will simply leave it standing in its well worn tracks. The LP12 like the old Garrard 301's before it has a long standing reputation for being a great deck. It is, mark my words, BUT if I was buying a new deck today I would NOT BUY an LP12. It is a 44 year old design and materials, technology and engineering has come a long way since those days.

I'm not affiliated with anyone, OL especially, but it does annoy me when they are dismissed by people who know nothing about the quality of the product. Mark Baker is an extremely affable bloke and is a real enthusiast, driven to achieve the best products for the money. He may not get it right all the time but who does and I for one support his operation and look forward to seeing new product lines.

And yes, before I forget, the speed of my OL motor has never slipped or wondered off in the 3 and 1/2 years of owned it let alone during 1 side of an LP. It is ROCK SOLID. That's hopefully another well used "Linnie lie" dispelled.

 

[Al ears]

What about the Pro-Ject Xtension 10 complete with arm and Ortofon Cadenza Black. That''s another "hot" £3000 full spec deck, no?

I have an LP12 and I HAVE had plenty of experience with OL gear too. Let me just say to all those naysayers and others who are all too quick to repeat something they have read elsewhere, even without first-hand experience of the item, OL make exceptional tone-arms that partner well with a variety of decks / cartridges. OL might not be as "trendy" as Linn / Rega but it is a mistake to ignore them. A lot of dealers are happy to peddle the same old stuff from the bigger companies that offer them lucrative credit options but this does not mean a small company like OL can't compete on quality of product or sound quality. I wonder how many people have actually heard anything OL?

Well I have and I currently run my LP12 with an OL DC power supply / motor and I can tell you something that "Linnies" won't know / care to find out but my "Advanced motor kit" (MK2?) with upgraded transformer unit improved my 30 year old LP12 more than their precious (scandalously over-priced) Lingo II AC supplies could. The OL kit was 1/4 of the price too! Even though I have owned my LP12 for 20 years now and I do really like it still, I must also accept that it is far far from the last word of analogue t/table design. A lot of modern 21st designs including those from OL, will simply leave it standing in its well worn tracks. The LP12 like the old Garrard 301's before it has a long standing reputation for being a great deck. It is, mark my words, BUT if I was buying a new deck today I would NOT BUY an LP12. It is a 44 year old design and materials, technology and engineering has come a long way since those days.

I'm not affiliated with anyone, OL especially, but it does annoy me when they are dismissed by people who know nothing about the quality of the product. Mark Baker is an extremely affable bloke and is a real enthusiast, driven to achieve the best products for the money. He may not get it right all the time but who does and I for one support his operation and look forward to seeing new product lines.

And yes, before I forget, the speed of my OL motor has never slipped or wondered off in the 3 and 1/2 years of owned it let alone during 1 side of an LP. It is ROCK SOLID. That's hopefully another well used "Linnie lie" dispelled.

Ditto. (However I'd sell mine if I could afford the Brinkmann)

 

[steve4232]

I see "Al ears" that you have the OL Aurora Gold. Did you get a dem of that before handing cash over? I wonder what it was compared with and how it behaved? Nice deck for the money!

 

[Al ears]

I see "Al ears" that you have the OL Aurora Gold. Did you get a dem of that before handing cash over? I wonder what it was compared with and how it behaved? Nice deck for the money!

How it behaves? It sits on a shelf and does what it is told.

Seriously I did not audition it against anything else. Used to have an old Rega Planar 3 and the Aurora Gold came along at the right time at the right price. Had actually been looking for one for years (an old buddy of mine had one when they first came out so knew exactly what to expect.)

I was not disappointed and feel it will quite happily beat any new decks way above the price I paid for this one.

I will hopefully upgrade the arm when I get the funds.