Ceiling speaker boxes

[Lovie1961]

Hi. Im in the process of setting up a home cinema system and have just purchased the Onkyo NR646 with which to hopefully enjoy the new Atmos and DTS:X formats. I understand that Onkyo are currently giving away a set of free Atmos speakers with this amplifier. I have read many reviews on them and a mixed bag of opinions indeed! I thought of maybe using a pair of Q Acoustic 2010 speakers instead and using wall brackets to tilt them backwards for my height speakers (anybody tried this?)Ceiling speakers seem to be the way to go, but as i am in rented accomodation i cannot start gouging out holes in my landlords ceiling. So, does any one know if you can buy a box in which to place the ceiling speaker and then screw the box to the ceiling (thus requirIng only 4 relatively small screw holes) or is there some unequationable level of sound physics that i have no idea about. I realise that you would see the speaker cable but in my case only 4ft or so. Any help or guidance would be appreciated.

 

[simonlewis]

What you could do is get something like these minx min12 speakers,

http://www.richersounds.com/product/standmount-speakers/cambridge-audio/minx-min12/camb-min12-wht

and then get these brackets to screw onto the cieling.

http://www.richersounds.com/product/speaker-brackets/cambridge-audio/minx-400m/camb-minx-400m-whi

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Hi. Im in the process of setting up a home cinema system and have just purchased the Onkyo NR646 with which to hopefully enjoy the new Atmos and DTS:X formats. I understand that Onkyo are currently giving away a set of free Atmos speakers with this amplifier. I have read many reviews on them and a mixed bag of opinions indeed! I thought of maybe using a pair of Q Acoustic 2010 speakers instead and using wall brackets to tilt them backwards for my height speakers (anybody tried this?)Ceiling speakers seem to be the way to go, but as i am in rented accomodation i cannot start gouging out holes in my landlords ceiling.

Hello Lovie1961.

It would have helped if you had given the model number of the free Atmos speakers that Onkyo are giving away, but never mind, that doesn't alter my next sentence.

The Dolby Atmos method with upfiring or reflecting speakers (as opposed to the in-ceiling configuration) relies on using special speakers that have a notch filter in their frequency response, which tricks the brain into thinking that the sound is coming from above. Thus you cannot use ordinary speakers, like the Q Acoustics, and tilt them backwards. Without the notch filter in their frequency response, the reflective method does not work. I'm afraid that you'll either have to buy better (and quite a bit more expensive) Atmos upfiring loudspeakers, or wait until you move house again!

Sorry.

 

[Lovie1961]

Thanks for that suggestion. I'll have think on it, it could be the way to go.

 

[Lovie1961]

Thanks for that suggestion. I'll have think on it, it could be the way to go.

 

[Lovie1961]

Thanks for your reply Son of SJ. See...i knew it would be too technical. The speakers that Onkyo are giving away are the SKH-410 and they retail at about £150. The only others i've seen widely advertised are KEF's retailing at £500. As for fooling the brain, could i use the Q Acoustics and drop some acid!!?

 

[bigboss]

If I'm reading correctly, you intend to place the speakers in a box and screw it directly onto the ceiling (and not bounce the sound off the ceiling). In that case, any speakers will do. Lower frequencies cannot be reflected, hence special speakers are needed to bounce sound off the ceiling.

I would suggest in-ceiling speakers (which are often cheaper) in an MDF box, and paint the box.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Thanks for your reply Son of SJ. See...i knew it would be too technical. The speakers that Onkyo are giving away are the SKH-410 and they retail at about £150. The only others i've seen widely advertised are KEF's retailing at £500.

Yes, I think these two are the only Atmos upfiring speakers available separately at the moment, though I have seen (I think) Pioneer speakers that have the upfiring modules built into floorstanding speakers.

As for fooling the brain, could i use the Q Acoustics and drop some acid!!?

Well, dropping some acid, or other substances worked, to varying degrees of success, for Jimi Hendrix, Peter Green, Syd Barrett ...

 

[bigboss]

Son_of_SJ, I'm pretty sure the OP wants ceiling speakers on the ceiling, and not upfiring. Unless I'm reading it wrong.....

 

[Son_of_SJ]

He would indeed prefer ceiling speakers in the ceiling, if he can do so in a manner acceptable to his landlord. Upfiring was only the alternative.

 

[bigboss]

He would indeed prefer ceiling speakers in the ceiling, if he can do so in a manner acceptable to his landlord. Upfiring was only the alternative.

Yes, that's his plan:

So, does any one know if you can buy a box in which to place the ceiling speaker and then screw the box to the ceiling (thus requirIng only 4 relatively small screw holes)

​

 

[Series1boy]

And the onkyo upfiring speakers are terrible, even for free.. The only decent upfiring are the kef r series and the pioneers, but these come at a premium!

there is the option of having front heights for atmos and dtsx if ceiling speakers are out of the question. There are many good reviews and results using this method. This way you can get a good pair of satellite speakers for half the price of the kefs or pioneers.. Another option for you I hope..

 

[Lovie1961]

Thank you all for you recommendations and advice. I consider myself fairly savvy when it comes to hifi and home cinema. But obviously with new technology ( and along with it a 100 new acronyms) i find myself on a learning curve. Series1boy asked if i would consider "height" speakers instead. Well, this was my original plan. I was going to buy a separate pair of the Q Acoustic 3010's which make up the 3000i theatre pack and mount them high on the wall firing directly at my listening position. I was told that Atmos will only work if you have upward firing speakers bouncing off the ceiling. So there lies my confusion. Ideally, mounting a pair of speakers high and having them firing toward me would be best. Would i still get the "object based" effect? As for formats... I am more interested in Dolby DTS:X as in my opinion this will become a more consistent and easily found format than Atmos.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Hello again Lovie1961! The advice so far has been that in order to get the best from Atmos, you need to have the basic 5.1 speakers at ear level. However, in page 2 of this CNET review of your receiver http://www.cnet.com/uk/products/onkyo-tx-nr646/ , it suggests placing the surround speakers a bit higher. About the front height speakers, I'm not sure if having a pair of Q Acoustics 3010 high up (but not, I presume, actually from the ceiling) would work. Perhaps David@Frank Harvey could help here? I use front height speakers in two of my cinema rooms, but they are driven by Yamaha receivers which have a dialogue lift function. I'm not sure in Onkyo do the same. I'm rapidly getting out of my depth ....

 

[bigboss]

You can have them as height speakers. Dolby Atmos will configure accordingly.

 

[Lovie1961]

Thanks again SonofSJ and Bigboss. Your latest replies really helped me get my head around this. The Onkyo 646 does in fact have a "height" speaker option. So i think what i will do is use my Q Acoustics 3000i Cinema Pack as my primary 5.1 surround sound system with the speakers on stands, then buy a pair of Q Acoustic 2010 speakers, as they look identical but smaller ( which were originally part of Q Acoustics 2000i Cinema Pack) and wall mount them to use as my height speakers and let the receiver sort out the rest.....thanks again.

 

[iQ Speakers]

IPL have just developed these 105mm deep.

http://www.iplacoustics.co.uk/ipl_avc1_shielded_centre_speaker.htm