Can you hear the difference?

[admin_exported]

At first we hear the DAB will the saviour of Radio: No more crackle or hiss, just high quality interference-free
reception all the time. An much much more choice.

Then there is all the hype.
DAB tuners (and portables) hit the market place and cost a wee small fortune. But HEY look/listen to the quality – (You
know its worth it!)

OK – so my hearing isn’t what it was 30 years ago, but this
is the same scenario as when CD hit the streets in the early 80’s. The sound of the new technology is actually
worse than its predecessor (Vinyl)

Then I hear that a whole bunch of stations have disappeared??? Plugs being pulled due to finances etc!!!
-
Never mind there is still good old
“2LO”

Then I read that in nitty gritty technical terms, all the
compression and jiggery pockery that goes on to packet the sound, fire it over
the airwaves, de-compress and de-packet it, means that the quality ACTUALLY IS
far lower than dear old Joe public has been led to believe. So my ears are not deceiving me after all.

Not only that, in an attempt to squash as many stations into
the available transmissions gaps, the Govmnt deliberately chose the lower quality
transport medium!! - How come that doesn’t
really surprise me?

Other countries are falling over themselves to adopt higher
quality infrastructure, (if they didn’t adopt it from the start).

So the much trod upon punter in good old Blighty, is paying
way over the odds for an inferior product, whilst being led to believe they are
paying the high price for high quality.
- How much did YOU pay to hear DAB???

Anyone know when they plan to switch off FM?

The Govnmt’s idea of more choice better quality, appears to
me to be bum deal!

Serenity

 

[John Duncan]

Well to be honest, the public gets what the public wants - more stations, at a quality that they think is 'better', even though it leaves us stone cold.

At least I can get Planet Rock, and Radio 5 at reasonable quality (even though it's better on Freeview.....)

 

[crusaderlord]

But it would not be unfair to say that the mass UK market is not that interested in the highest quality transmission and then also buying high cost / quality receivers to listen to it.

Most people are happy with compressed MP3 quality music due to its ease of use and portability, and buying a local mass produced shop brand of system that really doesnt show off music to its real potential. The music they hear on their portable radio is good enough.

So the Governments quantity over quality choice does not seem unfounded.

Personally i do look for quality in my listening but equally my experience of DAB through my Onkyo 515 is very good indeed anyway and doesnt leave me feeling hard done by.

 

[Clare Newsome]

It's true - all recent research shows gen.public more than happy with DAB sound quality.

Don't blame the technology, blame the broadcasters - they could (and in some cases - BBC! - once did ) use higher bit-rates, but (as with digital TV) have chosen quantity over quality.

Oh, and no plans to switch FM off for the forseeable future - it's not part of the TV digital switchover plans.

 

[fr0g]

FM beats DAB, but I don't think vinyl is better than CD.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks to all (so far).

I still think the public are getting a raw deal, but dont know it.

The marketing men have earned their dosh, and done a good job.

How many listeners in the DAB land believe they are getting the best that technology can deliver at reasonable cost?

My gripe is not with the public. My grips is the powers that be that assume they know what we want, then lower the standard and hope to rake in the max cash, whilst selling it as quality, choice and value for money.

As they say "you pay your money, and take your choice"

ONLY we have very little choice in either!

Keep Calm:-

Serenity

 

[John Duncan]

Serenity:
Thanks to all (so far).

I still think the public are getting a raw deal, but dont know it.

The marketing men have earned their dosh, and done a good job.

How many listeners in the DAB land believe they are getting the best that technology can deliver at reasonable cost?

My gripe is not with the public. My grips is the powers that be that assume they know what we want, then lower the standard and hope to rake in the max cash, whilst selling it as quality, choice and value for money.

As they say "you pay your money, and take your choice"

ONLY we have very little choice in either!

Keep Calm:-

Serenity

I'm with you all the way here, though I'm not sure the marketing is as cynical as you suggest. We have to accept that we're in a minority here, in the sense of giving a damn about the sound quality of radio - to some extent, the powers that be do know what 'we' want (we being the general public, as opposed to you and me), which is more stations, and improved perceived sound quality, which is what 'we' have been given.

 

[Anonymous]

Ah! A refreshing change to hear from someone who is along the same lines as me.

I usually get very strange looks or stir up a right old "storm in a tea-cup" when I mention this topic.

I just think that, if we dont air views such as these, the Big Brother style Gvmnt will continue to believe THEY know whats best. If no one raises their head above the parapet and says "Hang on a minute". Then their increasingly worrying tactics with grow and multiply.

They are getting good at this sort of thing.
See how meak/mild we all are at paying around £5.45 for a gallon of petrol. 2 years ago that would have been cause for civil war!

Be good!

Serenity

 

[Alec]

Serenity:
Ah! A refreshing change to hear from someone who is along the same lines as me.

I usually get very strange looks or stir up a right old "storm in a tea-cup" when I mention this topic.

I just think that, if we dont air views such as these, the Big Brother style Gvmnt will continue to believe THEY know whats best. If no one raises their head above the parapet and says "Hang on a minute". Then their increasingly worrying tactics with grow and multiply.

They are getting good at this sort of thing.
See how meak/mild we all are at paying around £5.45 for a gallon of petrol. 2 years ago that would have been cause for civil war!

Be good!

Serenity

with respect, it doesnt matter where you put your head - above the parakeet or in the sand, will make no difference. as has been said, the government doesnt take its lead from you and me. it takes its lead from joe "quality over quantity, why bother using my brain - look at all those great looking stats and abbreviations" public.

the gov't arent saying they know whats best - theyre letting people who dont care tell them whats best.

sorry, i just dont see the point in false optimism.

 

[John Duncan]

And that was my point, in case I was misconstrued and looked like an FM activist - in an ideal world I'd have all those DAB stations at lossless quality and a McIntosh tuner to listen to them (for the one hour a week I do). However, DAB is good enough (and indeed better than FM by perception) for 99% of the population. Democracy at work, i'm afraid, and nothing we can do about it, other than enjoy Radio 4 in FM while we can.

 

[Alec]

JohnDuncan:And that was my point, in case I was misconstrued and looked like an FM activist - in an ideal world I'd have all those DAB stations at lossless quality and a McIntosh tuner to listen to them (for the one hour a week I do). However, DAB is good enough (and indeed better than FM by perception) for 99% of the population. Democracy at work, i'm afraid, and nothing we can do about it, other than enjoy Radio 4 in FM while we can.

absolutely. i was just responding to the OP and the general point of the thread.

 

[Anonymous]

As Clare said, its quantity over quality sadly.

Just look at sky digital, it has a horrid compressed picture that was worse than analogue sky and far worse that a strong terrestrial signal. And now they charge you extra for a high resolution compressed service! Magic marketing there!

DAB is too pricey imo for what it offers.

 

[Anonymous]

Well I for one love being able to listen to Radio5 or flick around the channels at night in bed whereas before I got my (£20 Woolies) DAB radio at night was not even really an option.

I'm hearing all the usual anti-government stuff and the "they are telling us whats best" type thing and from the same mouth I hear (ok - read, but you get the drift) "The genereal public don't know whats best for them - we need to tell them".

For pities sake!

 

[Anonymous]

have you also notest that the BBC DAB and Freeview stations sound/look better? think thay got the best spot and let every one else fight for what was left. hope the same dosent happen with freesat.

 

[professorhat]

Can I make a slightly controversial post? Oh well... here it comes anyway...

For me, radio is not about pure quality. It's about an instant fix i.e. I want music but I can't be bothered to get a CD / get my iPod etc. so I'll switch on the radio and have a listen. For me, radio is about instant gratification. I listen to the radio when I'm cooking in the kitchen or when I'm driving in my car, not when I'm sitting in my living room / bedroom looking to listen to some music. When I'm in serious listening mood, I know what I want to listen to and it's very unlikely radio will present that exact requirement to me so I wouldn't even bother.
I understand that the higher the quality of radio transmissions, the better, but I've found myself listening to some 192kbs internet radio stations recently and I've loved it. Okay, the sound isn't really "hi-fi", but that's not what radio is to me. It's about listening to a station which plays music I like without the effort on my part. Is it possible this is how a lot of other people feel?
Same with TV for me. I'm not bothered about TV really, I know the quality is far worse and this is why I generally watch either DVDs or Blu-Rays, but sometimes you just want to sit back and do nothing. TV offers you this luxury!
Again, just some thoughts, don't hate me for them!

 

[fatboyslimfast]

sheepboy1234:have you also notest that the BBC DAB and Freeview stations sound/look better? think thay got the best spot and let every one else fight for what was left. hope the same dosent happen with freesat.

Beg pardon Sir, but 6music at 128kbps and 5live at 64kbps is hardly what I'd call audiophile, esp when Classic FM transmit at 192kbps...

 

[Alec]

professorhat:Can I make a slightly controversial post?...
...Same with TV for me. I'm not bothered about TV really, I know the quality is far worse and this is why I generally watch either DVDs or Blu-Rays, but sometimes you just want to sit back and do nothing. TV offers you this luxury!
Again, just some thoughts, don't hate me for them!

Another example of why many here are'nt "joe public". I mean, you do'nt watch TV becaiuse of the inferior quality, even tho is not bad, and theres a wealth of stuff on it that you cant get on BluRay?

No hate here, mind, im jus' sayin'

 

[HDNumpty]

Another contrary opinion to add to ProfessorHat's...I was brought up on Radio 1, first AM (rubbish quality) then later FM (great quality with a good aerial). However, as I grew up & my tastes developed I found that I couldn't listen to ANY station without getting iritated after 2 songs...until BBC 6music launched on DAB. This station is the one I've been waiting for half my life, I can switch on almost at any time and hear all my favourite music OR the kind of stuff I actually want to listen to. FM may be great quality but it is not what I want to listen to. Compressed DAB gives so much more choice, sooner or later you are bound to find the channel that suits you. I use a PURE Evoke connected to a CA 840a and it sounds very enjoyable - enough to listen to for hours on end anyway. Who cares if it's not 'audiophile' - if I want that I can put a CD on!!

 

[professorhat]

al7478:Another example of why many here are'nt "joe public". I mean, you do'nt watch TV becaiuse of the inferior quality, even tho is not bad, and theres a wealth of stuff on it that you cant get on BluRay?
Well, to be fair, the main reason I don't watch TV is because there's rarely anything worth watching on! But point taken.

 

[Alec]

professorhat:al7478:Another example of why many here are'nt "joe public". I mean, you do'nt watch TV becaiuse of the inferior quality, even tho is not bad, and theres a wealth of stuff on it that you cant get on BluRay?
Well, to be fair, the main reason I don't watch TV is because there's rarely anything worth watching on! But point taken.

oh, thats cool, but you would admit being in a minority i assume, and thats my point, rather than to disagree about tv contetnt being rubbish (i do disagree, but, as i say, thats not my point).

 

[professorhat]

Indeed I would admit that - knowing my friends who are probably much more "Joe Public" than I am and they watch Sky / Freeview all the time, even without some sort of PVR to record the stuff they like. I don't really understand it, but there you go!
I'm not sure how this fits in with my original argument though since I was arguing on the side of non-audiophile radio, just instant fix radio. Never mind though.

 

[Alec]

professorhat:Indeed I would admit that - knowing my friends who are probably much more "Joe Public" than I am and they watch Sky / Freeview all the time, even without some sort of PVR to record the stuff they like. I don't really understand it, but there you go!
I'm not sure how this fits in with my original argument though since I was arguing on the side of non-audiophile radio, just instant fix radio. Never mind though.

And i agree with your basic poinnt - as my original point was that theres no reaosn to make a stand with a thread complaining about it. the op seemed to think it would have an effect, and i disagree, precisely because its jo public who matters to the gov't.

radio doesnt bother me much as i mostly listen to talk radio, and if i get into any music through the rtadio, ill buy it, i just wont use a radio for serious listening. to me its nothing more than a good news outlet and a cheap way of hearing new music occassionally.

i think we're on the same page, basically.

 

[Anonymous]

Dont you just love a good old debate ???? ;-)

> theres no reaosn to make a stand with a thread complaining about it. the op seemed to think it would have an effect
al7478 - Could you explain why you believe I cant open up a thread complaining about something that is of concern to me?
I cant imagine the powers that be gives 2 hoots about my views, your views or ANYONES views on this Forum. (Or any other platform for that matter).

Yet if you believe that doing anything at all is pointless (even getting it off your chest) then this so called democracy we live in, is in a far worse state than I had feared.

Thank you in anticipation

Serenity

 

[Alec]

Serenity:
Dont you just love a good old debate ???? ;-)

> theres no reaosn to make a stand with a thread complaining about it. the op seemed to think it would have an effect
al7478 - Could you explain why you believe I cant open up a thread complaining about something that is of concern to me?
I cant imagine the powers that be gives 2 hoots about my views, your views or ANYONES views on this Forum. (Or any other platform for that matter).

Yet if you believe that doing anything at all is pointless (even getting it off your chest) then this so called democracy we live in, is in a far worse state than I had feared.

Thank you in anticipation

Serenity

to which i say calm down. are you saying i cant comment on the impotence of your complaint? what was that you said about democracy? but we're talking radio, not election fixing in African states, so lets keep perspective, and stay serene.

Afterall, you're the one who said:

"I just think that, if we dont air views such as these, the Big Brother style Gvmnt will continue to believe THEY know whats best. If no one raises their head above the parapet and says "Hang on a minute". Then their increasingly worrying tactics with grow and multiply."

i think we're being conned left right and centre, especially with the TV situation, but i just think you're being a bit alarmist, and that itll do nothing - "I know that this is vitriol/no solution/spleen venting/but i feel better having a scream/dont you?" kinda thing.

however, ive certainly not told you what you can and cant post, but i therefore have a right to reply. democracy at work again.

Now, shall we play "spot the R.E.M. lyric reference"?

 

[John Duncan]

"Leon-uhrd-Burn-stine"