Can cables cure harsh treble & overpowering bass

[Sliced Bread]

Hi All,

I'm having some problems with music through my system (see signature). Generally the sound is quite enjoyable, but the two frequency extremes seem to be a problem. The treble can be a bit too harsh and the bass can be a bit too over powering. I don't want to change any electronics, but I was wondering if could improve the situation by changing the interconnect and / or speaker cable.

Currently using:
Interconnect = Van den hul - The name
Speaker Cable = QED - Silver Anniversary speaker wire

I'm looking for a sweet, yet refined trebble and a quieter yet tighter bass. Mid range is of the most imporance.

Any help is appreciated.
Thanks

 

[matthewpiano]

You could try some copper speaker cable instead of the Silver Anniversary but, at the end of the day, cables can't solve synergy problems within a system. I think you would benefit from heading towards the hi-fi amp route combined with a surround sound receiver that has pre-outs.

 

[Anonymous]

Since you have VDH ICs, maybe you can also try VDH CS-122 speaker cable. It has a really sweet treble, though at the same time it is extended. And bass is very controlled, I'd say even overdamped. Could work for you maybe.

http://whathifi.com/Review/van-den-Hul-CS122/

 

[Anonymous]

Use the treble and bass controls!

I have never worked out why people do not use them and will - instead of loosing a tiny, weeny, itsy-bitsy bit of fidelity that is practically un-noticable to all of us mere humans - put up with overwhelming bass and nasty treble! People: Use your tone controls!

 

[Anonymous]

Alternatively, you could adjust the Audissey multi eq parameters but it's not clear from you post if the problem is with two channel or multi channel. I'm not familiar with this partcular receiver, but does it have a "pure direct" mode and if so do you have the same problem when the Audissey eq is bi-passed?

 

[Andrew Everard]

No, you really have to consider some equipment changes - cables are not additive components but, at best, subtractive ones. Finding a cable able to do what you want will have an overall effect on the sound which won't be pleasant.

 

[the record spot]

Hughes123:Use the treble and bass controls!

I have never worked out why people do not use them and will - instead of loosing a tiny, weeny, itsy-bitsy bit of fidelity that is practically un-noticable to all of us mere humans - put up with overwhelming bass and nasty treble! People: Use your tone controls!

And if the amp has none...?

 

[the record spot]

Andrew Everard:No, you really have to consider some equipment changes - cables are not additive components but, at best, subtractive ones. Finding a cable able to do what you want will have an overall effect on the sound which won't be pleasant.

That's interesting - I had a similar problem in that the bass on my current Marantz combo was a bit too lean for my liking. I added the Nordost Blue Heaven interconnect and it was there. I didn't lose the high or midrange characteristics, but the bass is very well defined and has prescence.

Plus, it saved me a few hundred on changing the major equipment!

 

[JoelSim]

I imagine it's the amp

ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

Was going to suggest using a VDH cable to smooth out treble (they do this pretty well IME) but since you have one already I'd try changing your speaker cable first.The QED SA whilst pretty good if you need to inject some vitality/pace to a sluggish system, can certainly make treble harsh in the wrong system. Maybe try a VDH speaker cable (bridge or similar) or something like the ecosse cs2.3 both circa 5 quid/metre. Good luck!

 

[Sliced Bread]

Thank you everyone for your posts....it has given me some food for thought.

I'm not going to change the Electronics as it is all pretty new, and generally I'm happy with the sound (especially films which are fantastic, the problem is with movies). I'm just looking to tweak the sound a bit.

All posts have been useful, though. Thank you.

Andrew, when you say that "...finding a cable able to do what you want will have an overall effect on the sound which won't be pleasant." Would that include say the Ecosse and VDH speaker cables that have been suggested. Maybe (as suggested) moving away from the silver might just refine the top edge?

 

[Andrew Everard]

Personally, I'm not a great believer in using cables to tune the sound of a system. Improving the cable to improve the overall resolution of a system, yes, but using them as tone controls or to address a mismatch elsewhere in the set-up, no.

 

[Anonymous]

I notice that you don't have a Tacima block, buying one of these will reduce the RF inteference you will be getting off the mains.

This will improve and sweeten the sound, tightening the base and give further clarity through the speakers.
I would then also look at fine tuning on your 905 equaliser settings, rolling off some base through your fronts, letting your sub take over the work. It will do a better job of it, leaving your AV amp with greater reserves of power to give much better quality supply to the mid / high ranges.
Then if needed roll off a touch of treble to achieve a good balance to your ears / room. If your room has harsh surroundings this will need to be addressed, as no matter what you do you will struggle to get a sweet sound.

Hope this helps

 

[Anonymous]

JohnNewman:Hi All,

I'm having some problems with music through my system (see signature). Generally the sound is quite enjoyable, but the two frequency extremes seem to be a problem. The treble can be a bit too harsh and the bass can be a bit too over powering. I don't want to change any electronics, but I was wondering if could improve the situation by changing the interconnect and / or speaker cable.

Currently using:
Interconnect = Van den hul - The name
Speaker Cable = QED - Silver Anniversary speaker wire

I'm looking for a sweet, yet refined trebble and a quieter yet tighter bass. Mid range is of the most imporance.

Any help is appreciated.
Thanks

The best bet is to find a friendly dealer who will lend you some speaker cable and try it out. I did this with Atlas Hyper 2.0 & Chord Epic, I ended up buying Kimber 4TC in the end tho. For your system some Hyper 2.0 could be just the ticket.

jules.

 

[JoelSim]

Surely the problem here lies in the fact that the amp is an AV amp and is therefore set up for movies...a somewhat different set-up to that required for music!

Cables, whilst affecting the sound, won't have the desired effect. In my opinion.

 

[Simon Lucas]

trevor79: If your room has harsh surroundings this will need to be addressed
John, what sort of room is the system in? How's it furnished?

 

[Sliced Bread]

Thanks for all the help, it is appreciated.

Trevor 79, I added a Tacima block a while ago which was a surprisingly good upgrade (especially for £30). I also added a clearer audio copper line alpha mains plug to the amp and a Apollo Soprano Mezzo, which made a HUGE difference. I'm considering adding one to the CD player too.

I shall take on board the warnings of using cables as tone controls, and proceed with caution. I also agree that at the end of the day it is an AV amp, but I do not have any intention of changing the amp or adding a second stereo amp. I think I've spent enough on my system this year already

I have tried the tone controls, but it I tend to find that messing about with them produces an unnatural sound.

Maybe Simon is right and I need to start looking at environmental factors. The walls are fairly bare, so perhaps a few paintings will help things along? There is nothing on the walls behind the sofa or behind the speakers. However the sofa is large and soft and I do have carpet. The room is almost square, about 12 X 14 foot or behind the speakers. The wall to the left has a large 50" mirror.

 

[JoelSim]

JohnNewman:Thanks for all the help, it is appreciated. Trevor 79, I added a Tacima block a while ago which was a surprisingly good upgrade (especially for £30). I also added a clearer audio copper line alpha mains plug to the amp and a Apollo Soprano Mezzo, which made a HUGE difference. I'm considering adding one to the CD player too. I shall take on board the warnings of using cables as tone controls, and proceed with caution. I also agree that at the end of the day it is an AV amp, but I do not have any intention of changing the amp or adding a second stereo amp. I think I've spent enough on my system this year already I have tried the tone controls, but it I tend to find that messing about with them produces an unnatural sound. Maybe Simon is right and I need to start looking at environmental factors. The walls are fairly bare, so perhaps a few paintings will help things along? There is nothing on the walls behind the sofa. However the sofa is large and soft and I do have carpet. The room is almost square, about 12 X 14 foot.

If your room is carpeted and you have a soft sofa then I would imagine that it is fine already. In my opinion you will not get good hifi sound from the Onk whatever you do.

 

[Sliced Bread]

Yeah...perhaps.

Like I say...the sound is generally good, and it is more a tweek, that is needed.

 

[JoelSim]

See if your local hifi shop will lend you some cables

 

[Anonymous]

I would try (as I suggested earlier) rolling off the bass on the fronts, balancing it out on your sub.
Bass frequencies use up (and drain) a lot of power from the amp, the main effects of which is the bass starts to sound woolly and the treble shrill.
Also address calibration settings on your Onkyo. Check the speakers are on THX settings and working off a 0db base line. Then adjust up/down individually to get the balance (by ear) for the room.

If the signal is set too weak (say -4db) the amp will have to be working harder to get to the same sound levels, the stress of which shows in the music!

The top notch AV amps about now £ for £ take some matching, never mind beating. When Onkyo brought out the 805 and upwards with heavyweight power supplies with full (push/pull) class A they were punching well above there weight, and still are.
Once your 905 is set up to perfection I would be very surprised if you are not extremely happy with it.

 

[manicm]

I generally agree with Andrew here, if you're having a big problem with bass or treble you need to consider a component change. Cables will only do so much, if anything at all. Bass and Treble controls will only colour and upset the sound, no matter how well implemented.

Now years ago I had an old Technics amp which was very transparent and clear for what it was, hooked up to a Pioneer DV-535 DVD player which was the dog's back in the day (cost about 300 quid six years ago). And the sound was quite bright, but I got used to it and was never fatiguing, just a bit lacking in bass cos I just had a stereo system. For movies, mind, the bass was ample cos sound-effects emphasise frequency extremes, unlike most music.

In the quest to get better CD replay I then bought a brand new NAD C521 CD player and guess what?? Although less detailed, less bright and more fullsome bass, it had terrible sibilance in my system to the extent that it was unlistenable. It would get better after playing for about 45 minutes but I wasn't impressed by its narrow stereo focus.

I since flogged the NAD and just content back with the Pioneer.

 

[Anonymous]

Whatever you decide to do John.....bear in mind silver coated copper cables generally produce a harsh tinny sound.......and upgrading your cables should infact detract LESS from your sound and expose your system even more. A cable that ADDS too much to your sound is one generally not worth having.......or if you need that it suggests you're playing with the wrong electronic components.........if that makes sense? Good luck