Cambridge 650A / NAD C326 System Matching.

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I'll soon be buying a new amp from my local Richer Sounds (I've narrowed it down to either a Cambridge 650A or NAD C326) but unfortunately they don't have a dedicated listening room in that store so I'd like to ask the forum's advice on which of the two would be most likely to match well with my existing hardware:-

Focal Chorus 714V speakers, Arcam CD73T & Project RPM4 turntable.

I've read positive comments in this forum about the richness of the NAD sound but I'm worried that its slight warmth in the mid/ bass might be emphasized by the smooth nature of the Arcam, and especially by the Focals which can be a little "polite" (excessive warmth and a lack of punch are characteristics I'm trying to get rid of from my system). Apparently the 650A is more clinical and bright with some stating that it gives an overly clean rendering of songs which can come across as unnatural and uninvolving. However I'm hoping that this might be tempered by my particular setup so I'm provisionally favouring this amp.

I know that Richer Sounds allow returns within 7 days if you're not happy with the purchase but I'd really like to gather some opinions on here to help me make the best choice the first time around.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm usually a Cambridge guy, but I'd prefer the NAD for this particular set. Focal Chorus speaks are a bit bright on their own in my opinion, and match very well with the warm Arcam and/or NAD output.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, I've seen one or two reviews myself that mention this so maybe adding the Cambridge amp will produce an overly harsh treble? That's a shame because I prefer a little clarity and brightness in the music, as opposed to a warmer bass-dominated sound.

In terms of "punch" how do you think the NAD compares with the Rotel RA-06, which is the one I currently have? The Rotel's a fine amp for extracting detail but the sound it produces in my setup is a bit laid-back and unexciting. If the NAD corrects this it would be perfect for me but my fear is that combining a NAD amp with the Arcam or Pro-ject might result in too much emphasis in the lower-mids, but of course I can't be certain about that.

 

[Anonymous]

The What Hi-Fi review of the 650a highlights its strong dynamics and punch but does anyone know how well it handles slower, quieter music?

 

[Anonymous]

The 650A does slow music just fine. It just tends to imbue it with some qualities that makes it sound "faster" to my ears.

If your budget allows it, the 740A provides are more balanced sound to my ears.

 

[matthewpiano]

Just saw this and thought I might be able to help.

I initially purchased the 650A but, after nearly a month of trying to live with it, I ended up swapping it for the NAD and I'm very glad I did.

The 650A is very talented but it is also ultra detailed and quite bright sounding. With Focal speakers I think it would be a nightmare. It is a very clinical sounding amp and the midrange is on the dry side.

The NAD is warmer but still detailed and has plenty of punch and excitement. It is a very involving listen and, even though it is pretty revealing of the differences between recordings, even the worst ones remain listenable and enjoyable.

Personally I think the NAD is better value for money and better at communicating the essence of the music and that is what hi-fi is all about for me.

 

[Anonymous]

I'd like to add that the lower Azur amps and CD players (up until the 650 series) tend to have a brighter, up-front and exciting output, while the 740 and the 840 series have a smoother grown-up sound, while still delivering impressive amounts of detail

Crazy as it may sound, I have owned the following Cambridges: 340A SE, 540A V2, 640A V2, 340C, 640C V2, and still own the following: 740A, 840E + 840W, 740C, and 840C. I also use their interconnects and wires. I have mixed and matched them, and there is quite some variation in their sound output. I have also listened to the 340A, 540C V2, 550C/A and 650C/A in our local hifi shop, and have a pretty good idea of how they sound.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Matthewpiano! I've read quite a few of your postings in other parts of the forum regarding the NAD and Cambridge amps, which have been very useful to me.

It's the ultra detail and brightness that are attracting me to the 650A because it's a sound I tend to prefer and I think it would suit my musical taste (I like a bit of everything but the lion's share of my collection is electronic-oriented, particularly Jarre, Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream, Numan, Minimal Wave/ Cold Wave, etc.) You mentioned that the 650A combined with the Focals might be a nightmare- Do you think the results would be so harsh as to be grating or do you think it would simply produce a sound subtley but noticeably on the bright side of normal? In other words would it simply be "trebley", or so far skewed in that direction as to sound "wrong"?

I must admit that the NAD does seem like a great all-rounder but it's character sounds too close to the Rotel and Marantz amps that I've had previously, with their admittedly natural but also warm sound which simply doesn't do it for me I'm afraid. I'm just odd I guess!

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Chester,

Did you use the Rotel and Marantz amps with the Focal Chorus speaks?

Well imho, if the Rotel and Marantz with the Focals were too warm for you, then going NAD might indeed not do it for you. NAD is warmer than Rotel or Marantz to my ears.

 

[matthewpiano]

ChesterG:
Thanks Matthewpiano! I've read quite a few of your postings in other parts of the forum regarding the NAD and Cambridge amps, which have been very useful to me.

It's the ultra detail and brightness that are attracting me to the 650A because it's a sound I tend to prefer and I think it would suit my musical taste (I like a bit of everything but the lion's share of my collection is electronic-oriented, particularly Jarre, Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream, Numan, Minimal Wave/ Cold Wave, etc.) You mentioned that the 650A combined with the Focals might be a nightmare- Do you think the results would be so harsh as to be grating or do you think it would simply produce a sound subtley but noticeably on the bright side of normal? In other words would it simply be "trebley", or so far skewed in that direction as to sound "wrong"?

I must admit that the NAD does seem like a great all-rounder but it's character sounds too close to the Rotel and Marantz amps that I've had previously, with their admittedly natural but also warm sound which simply doesn't do it for me I'm afraid. I'm just odd I guess!

Hmmm. Sounds to me like you could find the NAD a bit on the warm side then. I just found the Cambridge extremely bright and open sounding and it became too much for some of my CDs.

I think you will really need to find some way of auditioning with your speakers and CD player. I know it is easier said than done but otherwise you risk getting this wrong.

It strikes me, from your additional comments, that a Cambridge 740A might be the ideal amp for you. Its that bit better balanced than the 650A whilst still being on the more clinical/detailed side.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Stagea!

Yes, I'm currently using the Rotel with the Focals but I had AE Evo3's with the Marantz. Some hi-fi enthusiasts might consider these pretty neutral combinations but they were just 'heavy' and warm sounding to my ears. I suppose it's a subjective thing. The Rotel though is noticeably lacking in punch which is a trait mentioned in What Hi-Fi's own review. Careful matching could probably minimise this but the Focals, which have been described in a few places as being "a tad polite", are making this characteristic more prominent I fear.

I'm relatively new to separates systems so I didn't realise this might happen! I'm hoping to get it sorted out this time around with the new amp. I'm certainly not going to change the speakers yet as they're the newest addition to my setup.

 

[Anonymous]

I own a CA 740 A and C and can thoroughly recommend them. Yes they are on the lively side but that's a sound I prefer. So many bits of kit described as warm or neutral I find rather dull and end up not playing much music.

I guess it all down to personal taste but the CA 740 pair I have are a lively and exciting listen. The most important qualities to me...

 

[Anonymous]

Would you say that the 740A is generally bright sounding and detailed like the 650A and does it have the same 'punch'? I agree with you about warm amps, that's part of the reason I'm tending to use my mini system with an Alba turntable more than my separates system these days- I'm just not engaged by the output of the more expensive kit at present.

 

[Anonymous]

I've noticed that for some reason you can't buy a 650A in black from the Richer Sounds website. It's only available in-store. I rang the nearest one to me and they said that I might be able to order one directly from their store which could be delivered and that would at least save me a 50-minute journey each way. I can then try it out at home (which is the ideal environment anyway) and if it proves no good then I can return it within 7 days with a possible 10% handling charge.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, the 740A is still lively and detailed, but is not nearly as bright sounding as the 650A. It has more punch in the lows and has more body in the mids, which balances out the slightly eager top end. Imho it's more dominantly "rythmic" than clinical or bright.

It might be what you're looking for. If you get the chance, give it a listen (better yet, A/B it with the 650A and/or your existing amp).

Good luck!

 

[Anonymous]

I must admit that the 740A is beginning to sound like a better option and price-wise it's closer to the Rotel amp that I currently have. Perhaps the 650A would be a step backward sonically (by being a cheaper machine) even if its sound characteristics are more what I'm looking for.

Would you say there are areas where the 650A is better than the 740A?

Also when you mention the 740A having more body in the mids and punch in the bass, these factors don't push it toward being a generally warm amp do they?

 

[Anonymous]

ChesterG:

Thanks Matthewpiano! I've read quite a few of your postings in other parts of the forum regarding the NAD and Cambridge amps, which have been very useful to me.

Hmmmm ... I too have read these threads ... don't own a CA or NAD, however, Matthew has been known to chop and change equipment often ...

then he is happy (best thing since sliced bread) ... then he's not .... then a few week later it can't handle complex music? ...

so my advice to you, is listen for yourself ... all boils down to personal preference

 

[matthewpiano]

Yes it does all boil down to personal preference.

I'm not sure why you really need to sound quite so critical though.

Besides I'm completely settled with the NAD gear and Q speakers. Out of interest I set up the RCD965BX/Pioneer A400/Mission 751 system next to my current one yesterday. The NAD/Q system left it for dust in every conceivable way.

With regards to the OP's questions, no the 740A doesn't veer towards being a warm amp. It is just more controlled than the 650A, particularly at the top end. I personally think that, whilst it was too clinical for me, it might suit your needs very well.

 

[Anonymous]

matthewpiano: I'm not sure why you really need to sound quite so critical though. Out of interest I set up the RCD965BX/Pioneer A400/Mission 751 system next to my current one yesterday. The NAD/Q system left it for dust in every conceivable way.

not critical, just stating facts ... like I said, the OP should hear for himself ...

as regards the pioneer, you matched it with good components ... and then again, for the first few weeks that you owned the Pioneer, you were over the moon and could not stop praising it? (if my memory serves me right?)

Then you stated that it could not handle complex music? ...

then a few days ago, you said that your new system is good, it even makes poor recordings sound good? (cannot remember the exact wording, but think it was something on those lines?)

I would hate a system that makes poor recordings sound good? .... prefer a system that is true to the recording ... but as I said, all boils down to personal preference

but glad that you are posting again! ... think you recently mentioned that you were no longer going to post .... always enjoy reading your posts, and enjoy lots of the music that you enjoy!

 

[matthewpiano]

Decided to be a light poster, rather than disappearing completely. .

 

[Anonymous]

matthewpiano:Decided to be a light poster, rather than disappearing completely. .

cool! ... I'll be watching the 'what are you listening to' thread!

 

[Anonymous]

Luckily the 740A can be ordered online in black from Richer Sounds, so what I think I'll do is give it a try. If it turns out to be no good inside my setup then I can return it to the store within 7 days and exchange it for a 650A and try that instead (though I can't imagine it'd be better than the pricier amp.)

Although I'm content with a little brightness, the main factor I'm hoping for is the missing toe-tapping 'punch', so as long as the 740A is an improvement over the RA-06 in this respect then it will probably be the one I'll end up buying.

 

[Anonymous]

ChesterG:

I must admit that the 740A is beginning to sound like a better option and price-wise it's closer to the Rotel amp that I currently have. Perhaps the 650A would be a step backward sonically (by being a cheaper machine) even if its sound characteristics are more what I'm looking for.

Would you say there are areas where the 650A is better than the 740A?

Also when you mention the 740A having more body in the mids and punch in the bass, these factors don't push it toward being a generally warm amp do they?

The 650A's only major advantage over the 740A is cosmetics and newness (for me at least). Some may also prefer the 650A's good quality analogue volume knob (the 740A has a digital volume control, which doubles as a navigation dial).

Sonically, the 740A has most of of the aces (more punch, better grip/control, lovelier mids and smoother highs). The 650A has a bit more "crispness" in the metallic sounds though... like with cymbals or trumpets. These sounds are ever so mildly smoothened in the 740A. The 740A still isn't a warm amp however, it's probably closer to neutral.

 

[Anonymous]

The volume control was another thing that interested me about the 740A. I hate it when you increase the volume on certain amps using a remote and the knob turns a huge chunk of arc! Apparently you can have much finer increments with the digital control which for me is a big plus. I also like the fact that the 740A is better in the mids that the 650A because I do occasionally play acoustic & classical material and I'd like it not to be compromised by a dry midrange.

You mention the mild smoothing in the highs. Do you think this would blunt the edge of electronic music or is it a very subtle characteristic? The bright treble was a factor in my early preference for the 650A, but perhaps with the Focals being a bit on the trebley side the 740A won't be too much of a compromise. Matthewpiano thought that combining the 650A with my speakers would be a bit of a nightmare anyway because of the inherent brightness of both.

 

[Anonymous]

ChesterG:

The volume control was another thing that interested me about the 740A. I hate it when you increase the volume on certain amps using a remote and the knob turns a huge chunk of arc! Apparently you can have much finer increments with the digital control which for me is a big plus. I also like the fact that the 740A is better in the mids that the 650A because I do occasionally play acoustic & classical material and I'd like it not to be compromised by a dry midrange.

You mention the mild smoothing in the highs. Do you think this would blunt the edge of electronic music or is it a very subtle characteristic? The bright treble was a factor in my early preference for the 650A, but perhaps with the Focals being a bit on the trebley side the 740A won't be too much of a compromise. Matthewpiano thought that combining the 650A with my speakers would be a bit of a nightmare anyway because of the inherent brightness of both.

Yes, the digital control helps with that problem. The Azur series (including the 650A) generally does not have that volume adjustability problem, though. As long as you just tap the remote briefly, the volume change would just be very mild. The main reason is that Cambridge's volume control / preamp section is relatively low gain, so it takes a larger arc to make a significant effect on volume.

This is especially true for the 740A and the 840A/E, to the point that vintage CDPs with low preout levels may not match very well (you might reach the volume knob limits before you hit the amp's limits). Anything fairly recent has 1.8V or higher preouts, which should work just fine.

The smoothening is subtle, but noticeable when A/B listening to them. I don't think you should be bothered by this, especially since your speakers are quite bright. I agree that the 650A with the Chorus speaks might be quite too bright (at least for me).

If you've ordered the 740A, give it a good listen. As you mentioned, if you want more treble still, you can return it and opt for the 650A

Good luck.