Buzzing Rega turntables

[dtmark]

My Rega RP3 is back in its box and unused after six months of ownership as I managed to resurrect my original Thorens TT.

However for the sake of some closure and also because I will sell it on to someone else, I wondered:

Are Rega turntables supposed to make a loud buzzing noise, most especially from the right channel?

I originally bought an RP1 and returned it to the store because of this fault. I upgraded it to an RP3, which has the identical fault.

It is not generally audible when playing records, but I have never heard a correctly earthed turntable make this noise. Neither Rega TT has an external earth circuit so there's nothing to connect. The problem isn't with positioning (e.g. too close to power cables).

I put up with this in the end because the nearest dealer, from which I bought it, is about 40 miles away and I couldn't be bothered to go back again; that dealer only keeps Rega TTs in stock.

I've read many reports of this on the internet ("it's not just me") and some seem to have overcome this problem by returning for a replacement, others have taken it upon themselves to solder their own earth circuit into place.

Is it a design fault, or is this poor quality control?

 

[paul darwin]

Dtmark, Obviously our turntables are not supposed to make a loud buzzing noise, if you could let me know a little more information then I am sure we can effect a solution. What cartridge are you using, which phono stage, which amplifier, does it do it when turntable is not in use but phono selected on amp, does it increase with volume increase on amp, does it disappear if you touch the tonearm, do you use a ttpsu, does it happen only when TT is rotating, if you answer as many of these as possible then we can sort it for you.

We manufacture in excess of 30,000 tables a year and I can assure you that problems like the one you appear to be experiencing are very few and far between and often have a simple explanation.

Paul Darwin

Rega Research

 

[dtmark]

In both cases - the RP1 and the RP3 - the prefitted cartridge was used, no modifications to either.

The phono stage amp is a Project one. The amplifier is an old Denon one. The sound is very clearly audible when power is supplied to the turntable. I think it's the power that you can hear. It's an "earthing" type sound. IIRC (I don't have it wired up any more) the motor did not need to be running though I may misremember. It's all boxed up now, so I don't want to unpack it all again to try.

You can't normally hear it when playing records. Most of the buzzing sound is from the right channel, same with both the turntables. It was slightly worse with the RP1 than the RP3. I tried repositioning (the deck, the power cable, the phono cables), but that made no difference.

If I remember correctly, there was a particular place you could "touch" which made the noise worse with the RP1, somewhere near the base of the tonearm I think. When I returned it to the store they plugged it in to their kit, and the same sound could clearly be heard. My mistake was with failing to ask if they could plug in the replacement to see if it did the same, but then I didn't expect two out of two to be defective.

Importantly, a Project turntable and my Thorens turntable, in the identical location and with the identical kit, do not have this problem, but they have external earth circuits which can be connected to the phono stage amp. If I didn't connect that, then I'd expect to hear something like this.

The sound does increase as you increase the volume on the amplifier, but what made it largely ignorable was the fact that you tend to have the volume turned a fair way down when changing records and turn it up when play begins which minimises the amount of it that you hear.

It does appear that I was very unlucky to get two defective ones in a row.

 

[dtmark]

Having a scout around on the internet, this appears to be a very well known problem and is allegedly caused by a broken ground wire between the tonearm and the rest of the deck. The symptom appearing to favour the right hand channel is mentioned a number of times. So both the RP1 and the RP3 are/were defective out of the box.

The dealer is some distance away and has been very helpful with other things. I wouldn't want to see them at a loss over this. I put up with it because I thought it was a design flaw and that I had simply made a bad choice.

At this point having, I'm sure you'll understand why - lost all confidence in Rega products, I just want to sell it, however I cannot do so in good conscience now I know it's faulty.

Should I send it off to you guys to get that repaired, put a new belt on (for which I'll pay) and fix the other fault concerning the pick-up lever not lifting properly so I can resell it?

 

[chebby]

After three TTs (RP1 and RP3 and replacement RP3 is that right?) you should qualify for a full refund by now.

 

[dtmark]

Project Essential (think it was) - cartridge so badly misaligned the stylus simply skated across the record. Bought online, returned for refund.

Rega RP1 - earth hum from right channel. Returned to store and upgraded to:

Rega RP3 - earth hum from right channel

I assumed it was a design flaw because of the lack of an external earth circuit and so affected all Rega decks with that design; I should have made a different choice. Two out of two being faulty seemed unlikely.

I did then have six months' use of it, so whilst technically it was faulty out of the box and I should in theory be able to get a full refund, I cannot claim that in all good conscience.

Because I had lost faith in Rega I wasn't going to use it as a primary source and upgrade the cartridge, I reverted back to getting my ancient old Thorens deck reconditioned and working again, so now, it's unused and these do seem to have quite good resale values so it would be worth selling it. Though as it stands, it's basically worthless.

 

[chebby]

Which is why you should return it for a full refund. Paul Darwin from Rega has already said they make 30,000 turntables per year, you won't bankrupt him!

Just because you lived with a fault for six months doesn't invalidate anything. Get a full refund and enjoy your Thorens.

 

[Al ears]

Which is why you should return it for a full refund. Paul Darwin from Rega has already said they make 30,000 turntables per year, you won't bankrupt him!

Just because you lived with a fault for six months doesn't invalidate anything. Get a full refund and enjoy your Thorens.

+1

I wouldn't think twice about requesting a full refund.

 

[paul darwin]

Dtmark,

If you could get the turntable back to the dealer you purchased it from so he can thoroughly test it we can ensure that it is repaired if necessary and returned to you asap.

Paul Darwin

Rega Research

 

[MrTeroo]

Yes, definitely return it to th retailer, because that is who your contract is with. Then gently remind them of their obligations under the sale of goods act (1979)

In the first six months from when you buy something, the onus is on the seller to prove it was of satisfactory quality when you received it.

If the seller simply says the problem must be due to something you've done, it's for them to prove that.

If something is not of satisfactory quality, you have a statutory right under the Sale of Goods Act, to a refund.

 

[dtmark]

I got the box back out from under the bed today and connected it back up again.

The motor does not need to be running. The earth hum is always present on both channels though it's louder on the right hand side. Positioning of cables makes no difference nor does which power outlet you plug it in to.

I've cleaned it all up. I did have a chance to do a side-by-side comparison with my Thorens deck. PMSL.

But then that's not fair. I suspect I should be comparing against a high-end Rega deck with a really good tonearm and cartridge to make it fair. £560 (or whatever the Rega cost) seems to be pretty much entry-level for modetn turntables, not high-end.

Anyway..

I do know that under the Sale of Goods act, it matters not whether the fault was present from new, or whether it only developed yesterday, given the length of time that I have had it. On the other hand, I did have a lot of use from it. The cartridge would need replacing as would the belt.

I think a good compromise would be a fair trade-in against an upgrade to my ancient old Denon amplifier. The shop can hopefully send it back to Rega for a refund "on account" and everyone sort-of-wins. I shall see what comes of that.

 

[stevebrock]

In all fairness to Rega their after sales is superb.....

I have gone up through the RP1, RP3 and RP6 - the RP6 with a Nagaoka cartridge sounds great for the money - never had a problem with any humming whatsoever.

As Paul says 30k TTs a year - you have to expect a few QC issues, but they are always rectifiable. They cant get every single 1 right.

 

[Fenton Beasley]

I bought my RP6 over a year ago and two replacement TT-PSU's later I think I can live with the buzz. It's still there with quiet music played at loudish volumes but nothing like as bad as the first two TT-PSU's.

I wouldn't buy Rega again

 

[paul darwin]

Fenton,

Could I ask what cartridge you are using as the problem could be cartridge related and nothing to do with the RP6.

Paul Darwin

Rega Research

 

[paul darwin]

Dtmark,

Could I ask again that you get the deck back to the retailer you bought it from so he can establish whether there is a fault and try and sort it out to your complete satisfaction - quoting the sale of goods act is unecessary as we will do whatever is necessary to resolve the situation for you without recourse to legal obligations.

Paul Darwin

Rega Research

 

[stevebrock]

Im afraid I will have to come to the defence of Paul, to have 2 faulty TT PSU in sucession and 3rd buzzing seems to me someting in the system isnt right?

It could be cables ie signal cables touching power cables, the cartridge tags not tight, fault with cart, fault with phono, poor earthing (which would indicate tonearm cable as Regas are earthed through this).

It could be so many things - but 3 humming TT PSUs really is freak.

Is the humming apparent when sat in listening position? or when you have your ear next to your speakers?

 

[MrTeroo]

Dtmark,

Could I ask again that you get the deck back to the retailer you bought it from so he can establish whether there is a fault and try and sort it out to your complete satisfaction - quoting the sale of goods act is unecessary as we will do whatever is necessary to resolve the situation for you without recourse to legal obligations.

Paul Darwin

Rega Research

That's good to hear. I assume that includes giving DTMark the option of a full refund?

He has now spent money bringing his Thorens up to scratch and sounds more happy with that than the Rega.

 

[paul darwin]

Mr Teroo,

All options are indeed open, but your understanding and application of the sale of goods act is, I am afraid, flawed.

There is no absolute requirement for the retailer and or Rega to give a full refund, and even if a refund were requested, which it hasn't been, there could be a reduction for the use that has been had - this is called recision.

When we have been able to have a look at the turntable and test thoroughly then an appropriate decision will be made.

We will, of course, ensure that the customer is entirely happy with the outcome, as we always do.

Paul Darwin

Rega Research

 

[MrTeroo]

Well I hope it all works out well for him.

in a way it already has, because it prompted him to get his Thorens refurbished.

 

[dtmark]

Some balance:

If I were to search the internet for "buzzing [insert any manufacturer here] turntable" I'd get plenty of results.

And most of those would be down to user error: an example would be novices who thought it was a good idea to be tidy and tie-clip the phono and power cables together and then wonder why they can hear interference. Hence, Rega would want to investigate and to be sure where the problem lies.

That said, even a brief search for buzzing rega turntables turns up a stack of results which are not "user error", but actual faults or QC issues, and one link has a handy guide on how to finish building the turntable by soldering on your own earth circuit.

Having looked again at the RP3 when I had it out of the box again, compared with the SME 3009 I have on my Thorens deck, the Rega toneram is built like a tank. The whole deck feels very solid and would stand up to far more "punishment" then perhaps my Thorens deck would.

I have no idea how the Rega might sound if I put a Goldring 1042 on it and put it side by side with my Thorens deck with the same cartridge. I would be intrigued to find out, but not intrigued enough given the lack of the earth circuit by design and the accomanying earth hum, the former possibly being responsible for the latter. I really can't understand why these turntables don't have an external earth.

I think it's also fair to say that the Elys cartridge is extremely rudimentary sounding, bass heavy, dull, lacking detail, with poor soundstaging, perhaps it is the best for the money but I doubt it comes anywhere near showing what the Rega RP3 is capable of.

Rega don't have my money, if they were to issue a refund directly, that wouldn't be what I had paid for it because if it were, I wonder how the retailer makes a profit. And the retailer is the one directly responsible for making good.

It is fair to say that I'm very pleased with the conclusion, an old deck that I thought may be beyond resurrection is proving really phenomenal. And I take into account that I did have six months' use of the Rega, wearing the stylus and the belt which now slips on start-up having been hand-stretched again and again with every speed change. But that's because I listen to a mix of 33 and 45rpm and often swap between records.

A fair part exchange would be satisfactory to me, and the retailer can send the deck back to Rega for repair or replacement as they see fit.

Maybe the RP3/Elys is the best that circa £560 buys these days, and maybe £560 is the new entry-level. And maybe I've been spoiled before and that's why I was disappointed with it, newcomers may be elated at what it does; I knew early-on that this was a "throwaway purchase" thanks to the earth noise, and had written it off, and yet, these do go for good money second hand so anything I get back is a bonus.

Though it's fair to say that when I go back for a new amplifier, Rega is on the list of brands to cross off the list, which is a shame, but this is just my experience.

 

[paul darwin]

DTmark,

Sorry to sound repetitious, but, yet again could I ask that you get the deck back to the supplying dealer and let him / us have a good look as to the source of the apparent problem. I find your reluctance to do so curious to say the least. If it is that you live geographically a long way away then let me know the details and I will organise collection.

I feel you are hanging us out to dry without the opportunity of fully investigating the issue and reporting back

To suggest that the deck is not earthed is factually incorrect obviously it is.

The cost of an RP3 is not insignificant, and we, as would our customers who have made such an investment would expect that the product performs flawlessly in their systems for many years to come (as do thousands of 40plus year old Planar turntables)

The entry level for us is the RP1 with carbon cartridge at £230.

I am disappointed that you have crossed us off the list of amplifiers that you would consider buying as a consequence of this but would again re-iterate that until we have had a chance to thoroughly test the deck we are, obviously, unable to establish the existence of the fault and any means to solve it whether it be deck related or otherwise.

Paul Darwin

Rega Research

 

[dtmark]

It is partly the distance and partly that the dealer in question is a pain to get to because it's near Southampton and that always involves sitting on the motorway for an hour crawling along at walking speed just near there. But that's not Rega's fault. It's a shame there aren't more specialist hi-fi dealers when some of us are still into making decent kit, and listening to it.

Rega have not had the opportunity to review the deck and to ascertain the cause of the fault, though as per the opening post, I genuinely thought that it must be normal for Rega turntables to make buzzing noises, having had two, and had put that down to the lack of an external earth circuit, which is a setup I have never seen before. Actually I wish I had never asked and I'd just have put it on eBay as being in perfect condition.

In every other respect, the deck is nicely built, and is rather nice-looking. Though that cartridge lets the deck down. I know it can sound far better than it does.

I suppose it's true to say that I remain "in a bad mood" because I'd previously bought a Project deck that had a badly misaligned cartridge, so that's three out of three brand new turntables with faults, though only two of them Rega ones. But then that's what led me to get my original Thorens deck restored, which is sounding great: but then the tonarm and headshell sell second hand for about the same as I paid for the Rega/Elys combination, so it's hardly fair to compare them and it was inappropriate to do so.

I'm not in any special hurry to get it sorted, but I will speak to the dealer to ask if I can get it couriered to them and sent away for repair, and then couriered back to me so I can sell it second hand, and at the same time enquiring about a trade-in towards an amplifier.

 

[hybridauth_Google_100389410038198650532]

dtmark sounds as if he is a person who would rather complain and denigrate a company and its products than seek to have his alleged issues resolved. Must be a great ego boost to be an infallible critic, a self-appointed Lord-God-On-High.

If I were you, I wouldn't waste any more time in replying to dtmark.

 

[MrTeroo]

Nice first post, welcome to the forum.

Did Sir Wylie McKissock do yours?

 

[dtmark]

It's good to see that Rega reply to users' comments and that there are still quality manufacturers making turntables. Paul's offer to arrange a courier is a nice touch.

The dealer isn't permitted to offer part-exchanges, but agrees that the deck should be returned to Rega for repair and is happy to arrange this.

I have also listed the turntable on a second-hand hi-fi website for sale, clearly pointing out the possible earth hum fault and reflecting that in the price asked; I don't know what to set that at, but can always come down in price if there's no interest.

I'd want the buyer to see/hear/collect so they can determine whether the earth hum bothers them before parting with cash.

As I won't be going forward with the turntable this is the most expedient option for me avoiding having to ship it anywhere. These do seem very popular decks, so perhaps there will be a taker for a bargain, and the buyer could use the saving versus new to put a really good cartridge on it, so not a bad deal.

My experience with Rega products hasn't been what Rega would have liked; Paul's time and comments are appreciated, but others rave about the RP3 and are very happy with it, as I mentioned earlier I suspect leaving the faults with them aside aside, the RP3 simply wasn't high end enough for me anyway - I shall never know, but either way, the matter is near/at closure from my perspective. Thanks all.