Buying M-DAC is SB Touch good enough?

[2xcess]

All,

I'm looking to buy an M-DAC in the near future as an upgrade for my DacMagic. I store all my music on a NAS in flac format (up to 24/96 quality) and use a Squeezebox Touch as a streamer to supply the DacMagic. The SB Touch is in 'pass through' mode, so shouldn't affect the data stream, but I can't help wondering if I should upgrade my streamer to get the best out of the M-DAC. So I guess there are 2 questions;

1. Is the SB Touch going to get the best out of the M-DAC?

and if not,

2. what streamer should I buy to replace it?

Main components of current audio system are Roksan Kandy K2 amp and Dali Ikon 6 (Mk1) floor standers.

Steve.

 

[John Duncan]

Yes. I would only replace it if you want the streamer and a quality DAC to be in the same box. And even if you did, you'd probably find it less versatile than the Squeezebox.

 

[Anonymous]

I find it heard to believe that an upgraded streamer, which is basically acting as a transport, will give an audible improvement in SQ over the SBT using the M-DAC. At the end of the day, both are providing a digital steam so the only difference between the two will be the amount if jitter. I'd say stick with the SBT.

May be on a high end and very revealing system you might hear a difference, but then you'd be using something better than the M-DAC.

You'd get a much bigger improvement for your money if you spend the cash upgrading your amp/speakers etc. (whatever they are).

 

[nads]

well to my ears the SB Touch was better with out the DacMagic. So i would save the cash for now and remove the DacMagic for a start.

 

[Craig M.]

hmmm, i heard a squeezebox touch for the first time last weekend. through a pair of active b+w 801s the sound was flawless, so i'd stick with the touch as a streamer and dac.

 

[WinterRacer]

hmmm, i heard a squeezebox touch for the first time last weekend. through a pair of active b+w 801s the sound was flawless, so i'd stick with the touch as a streamer and dac.

+1. Plenty of people on this site use the Squeeebox Touch on its own and think it's fine. Personally I couldn't hear any difference between the DAC in the Touch and the Touch plugged into a Cyrus DAC-X - but I might just be cloth eared as I there are plenty of other things I can't hear a difference between either!

 

[Anonymous]

The SBT is bit perfect, has very low jitter and noise. It doesn't get much better.

If you get the M-DAC be sure to try it with all output options. The M-DAC designer suggests toslink (optical) is likely to give the best results. Also try the USB output from the SBT as this may be even better.

 

[acalex]

Tried the SBT with Arcam rDAC and compared SBT vs pc+rDAC. Couldn't hear any difference...somtimes the SBT itself was even better. I strongly advise you to try before buying any DAC with the intention of improving the SBT

 

[Anonymous]

acalex, did you try the Rdac via usb from the Touch?

 

[acalex]

acalex, did you try the Rdac via usb from the Touch?

No, I tried the rDAC through digital. To connect an USB dac to the rDAC you need to make changes within the SBT firmware as the USB on SBT is not an output but an input

 

[2xcess]

Thanks for the comments. Very interesting.

I must admit I'm a big fan of the SB Touch and I struggle to hear much difference between it and the DacMagic, the DacMagic sounding a little 'brighter' to my ears (especially at higher volumes), which I'm not keen on. So it looks as if the SB Touch will stay as my streamer, which is good as it integrates with the SB devices around the house.

However is it really that good that inserting an M-DAC, in place of the DacMagic, between it and my main sound system would not provide a noticable improvement?

Steve.

Main listening room: Roksan Kandy K2 amp, Dali Ikon6 (Mk1) floorstanders, SB Touch, DacMagic.

 

[Craig M.]

AlmaataKZ, who posts on these forums, couldn't tell the difference between the sbt and his benchmark dac. the one i heard was in an extremely revealing system, if there had been anything wrong with the sound it would've come through loud and clear. personally i'd keep it and not give it another thought.

 

[Crocodile]

I've read just about every opinion on the Touch's own DAC from it being almost peerless to being unlistenably poor! So it's probably another of those where only your ears can decide. Easy enough to throw a few files on USB/SD & take the Touch with you to demo the DAC.

For what it's worth, I've heard no significant difference between the Touch, a Beresford Caiman & the DAC in my Leema Pulse III.

 

[Anonymous]

I've read just about every opinion on the Touch's own DAC from it being almost peerless to being unlistenably poor!

I've only read opinions about the Touch's own DAC being good. Some may think its poor but on this forum at least, the majority view appears to be that it can hold its own against mid priced DACs.

 

[Ambrose]

Just to add another opinion.

The main problems I had was noise, both through mains and psu cable with stock SBT.

I very recently added Wireworld Matrix 6 and Stratus 52 with SBT plugged into it and no external dac currently and sound if far clearer with less noise bring much more clarity of sound through my speakers.

I had a brief demo of Rega Dac at home and am considering buying this more from point that music made more sense, timing and presentation were better and perhaps smoother. Overall detail levels I am not sure of any significant difference.

I guess the answer is the DAC is indeed excellent and depends how the whole system sounds to you as DACs have different house sounds / presentations which might be better or worse to your ears.

My Dacmagic 1 seemed clearer / louder than stock dac but not as much to my liking.

 

[nads]

My Dacmagic 1 seemed clearer / louder than stock dac but not as much to my liking.

is that the very first DacMagic or the recent one that is being "replaced" by the Plus ?

 

[Ambrose]

Hi Nads,

It's the original Dac magic 1 from years back!

Designed with Pink Triangle.

A time when Richer Sounds stocked Naim!

 

[Anonymous]

I've done two things to the SBTouch to make it completely rock, and convert it from a so so to a giant killer.

a) Apply Souncheck's software mods (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/)

b) Get a linear power supply. In the US, I've had good success with the $250 CIAudio linear power supply.

 

[Anonymous]

Deleting double post

 

[Sliced Bread]

I'm just wondering if the lack of perceived difference is because either:

1) the sb dac is great

2) the digital output feed is not all that good

3) a little bit of both

Has the SB touch's digital output quality been measured?

 

[Overdose]

I'm just wondering if the lack of perceived difference is because either:

1) the sb dac is great

2) the digital output feed is not all that good

3) a little bit of both

Has the SB touch's digital output quality been measured?

Probably, by someone, perhaps the designers who thought it passed the quality inspection without a problem.

I would imagine that any significant problems with the sound quality, if they existed, would be widely publicised and the product demonised for eternity. An iffy output would surely be obvious?

 

[Sliced Bread]

I'm just wondering if the lack of perceived difference is because either:

1) the sb dac is great

2) the digital output feed is not all that good

3) a little bit of both

Has the SB touch's digital output quality been measured?

Probably, by someone, perhaps the designers who thought it passed the quality inspection without a problem.

I would imagine that any significant problems with the sound quality, if they existed, would be widely publicised and the product demonised for eternity. An iffy output would surely be obvious?

I dunno, it depends how big the problem is.
Some say not all digital outs are equal...
...others say they are.
I'd test it myself, if I could be bothered

 

[Overdose]

Digital outputs themselves don't seem to vary much at all, differences in the output stages can and do exist, but their effects are not all that noticeable.

 

[Anonymous]

The SBT's digital output was measured by Stereophile as part of their review. In conclusion they were "amazed". The full review is online and is well worth looking up.

 

[Scissor_digits]

I'm seriously considering trying a different DAC for comparison. I personally found the Spitfire DAC was an improvement over the SBT's own but not by a massive amount, just made things clearer.

I've tried the following software tweak but it made no audible difference to me

https://sites.google.com/site/computeraudioorg/squeezebox-touch-tweaks