Building a budget system for classical & jazz

[admin_exported]

Hi all, I'm new here but would really appreciate your advice on building a new system for listening to my classical music (chamber & orchestral) and jazz (Coltrane, Mingus, Miles Davis etc.) CD colletion.

I'm currently using an old system I picked up years ago for next to nothing from a friend: Marantz SR4200, Marantz CD5400 and Eltax Monitor III (on Atacama Nexus stands). I do run my blu-ray sound through the AVR but don't have surround speakers and no interest in setting up surround, priority is the quality of my stereo music. I'd like to spend up to about £600, but I should have some more cash in 12 months or so, so another option might be to spend a bit less now (maybe around £300-£400) and then perhaps up to a further £600 in a year's time.

I'm happy to go to a well known auction website for the amp, I'd rather buy the speakers new and I'm not sure if it will be worthwhile upgrading the cd player or saving the cash to spend more on the amp/speakers.

Would love to hear your thoughts on what I should consider! Thanks

 

[kevinJ]

That Marantz receiver was a pretty good one in its glory days and the cdplayer is still a good player.

I think I would start with new speakers. Those Eltax monitors are not good enough to let the other components sing.

Depending on your budget, I would try to audition Monitor Audio BX1 and BX2, Kef Q100 and Q300, Dali Zensor1, Dali Lektor, ... Speakers in that range.

If you could stretch your budget just a little bit, you might even get a Marantz PM6004 together with new speakers.

 

[Anonymous]

Agree with the above

See if you can get a decent 2nd hand Marantz M6003 or Rotel RA04 or maybe think about the new Marantz PM6004 amp

Keep the CDP but replace speakers with any of the above (Dali Lektor 2's or Monitor Audio BX2's (even the B&W 685's would work very well indeed). All on some Atacama Nexus 6/Soundstyle ZII stands preferably massloaded and you'll have a cracking system

 

[CnoEvil]

For the type of music you like, I think it is worth gradually putting together a system based around the Rega Brio-R; then if possible Rega speakers. Your CDP will do for the moment.

 

[poldo]

I can advice the Dali Zensor 1, very good for the money and a 2nd hand PM 6003 would make it a hell of a system for not much money.

 

[the record spot]

Hi all, I'm new here but would really appreciate your advice on building a new system for listening to my classical music (chamber & orchestral) and jazz (Coltrane, Mingus, Miles Davis etc.) CD colletion. I'm currently using an old system I picked up years ago for next to nothing from a friend: Marantz SR4200, Marantz CD5400 and Eltax Monitor III (on Atacama Nexus stands). I do run my blu-ray sound through the AVR but don't have surround speakers and no interest in setting up surround, priority is the quality of my stereo music. I'd like to spend up to about £600, but I should have some more cash in 12 months or so, so another option might be to spend a bit less now (maybe around £300-£400) and then perhaps up to a further £600 in a year's time. I'm happy to go to a well known auction website for the amp, I'd rather buy the speakers new and I'm not sure if it will be worthwhile upgrading the cd player or saving the cash to spend more on the amp/speakers. Would love to hear your thoughts on what I should consider! Thanks

Hi Bleep, I'd suggest your speakers are the weak link and given your tastes, you'll find that the speakers I'm using just now (the Tannoys in my signature line - £350, though they used to be around £550 when first released, now superseded by the Recvolution Signature range) would suit your music nicely; they simply present the musical palette "as is" but without being clinical. I've yet to play something through mine which I didn't enjoy the resulting sound of. Depends on your room size of course, as they are quite compact. Failing that, check out Castle's Knight 1 (£300) or 2 (£400), both of which are well rated. I heard the Knight 1 and was impressed by what it could do.

It might be worth you spending a little time working out what kind of sound you're looking to get - what you'll get from forums is your question and then a pile of responses most of which will list almost as many (and likely more) speakers that you REALLY MUST HEAR!

Lastly, "a quality stereo" can be had for relatively little outlay today; mine cost me less than £1000 and it's remarkably good given some of the gear I've owned or tried in the past. You pays your money...etc.

Welcome to the forum by the way.

 

[dariushifi]

I agree with hifilover1979 regards the B&W 685 speakers. I listen on them some orchestra SACDs and FLACs and they sound great. Very detailed midrange. Bass rich and front ported. Can be placed close to the wall. Solid looks.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all your replies and the warm welcome to the forums. Great to be here and interesting that the speakers seem to be the weak link, having wrongly assumed the first thing I should replace would be the AVR.

The system is in a pretty large living room with high ceilings (~10ft). Speakers are in a corner, about 2ft from the walls.

The more I think about this I feel the best option is doing what CnoEvil suggests and gradually putting together a really good system. So think I will invest about £500 in some speakers now and look at amps again later.

Given the budget, taste and room, what speakers should I audition? I've started a list below. Questions are, have I missed any obvious candidates, are there any I shouldn't even bother with and how much difference will I hear if I stretch myself up to £600 for the speakers Vs sticking in the £400-£500 range?

Tannoy Revolution DC4

Castle's Knight 2

B&W 685

KEF Q300

Monitor BX5 and/or RX1

Dali Ikon 2

 

[CnoEvil]

I think you are sensible to take it slower and get it right first time...cheaper in the long run.

IMO If possible, you should try to listen to the final system that you want to end up with, to ensure the correct choice now.

I believe the Brio-R to be the best choice for the music you like, but the Onkyo should also be tried, given it's reception on here by some knowledgeable folk.

Other speakers to try are Regas own and Dynaudio DM 2/6 and DM 2/7. Due to the size of the room, the little Regas (which are in budget), may be too small.

Also, it will be worth trying a new amp with your Eltax, in case you prefer that in the short term, to your old amp with new speakers.

The secret is taking the good advice on here, an open mind and going to listen for yourself.....your correct path should then become much clearer.

Cno

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Cno. I had been thinking I would get the best vfm by getting a second hand amp from ebay. Do you think a new Brio-R would be a better choice than similarly priced second hand options?

 

[CnoEvil]

Thanks Cno. I had been thinking I would get the best vfm by getting a second hand amp from ebay. Do you think a new Brio-R would be a better choice than similarly priced second hand options?

I hoped you wouldn't ask me that.

You are either the sort of person who likes hunting for a bargain, and is good at sniffing out the wheat from the chaff. It can go very well, or you can end up with a "white elephant" and a load of torture.
If done through a dealer, who knows the history and gives back up, then this gives piece of mind.

My preference is ex-display/ex-demo/B-Grade stock, that comes with full warranty and tempting prices.

 

[kevinJ]

My preference is ex-display/ex-demo/B-Grade stock, that comes with full warranty and tempting prices.

+1

And if you buy something in-store, you mostly get a discount anyway

 

[the record spot]

Thanks Cno. I had been thinking I would get the best vfm by getting a second hand amp from ebay. Do you think a new Brio-R would be a better choice than similarly priced second hand options?

It depends what you'd be looking at comparing the Rega with. A Unison Research Unico amp would be around £500 or so secondhand. That would make for an interesting comparison. Just an example, but the kind of thing you could be looking at comparing for that kind of money.

 

[Anonymous]

Okay, so, I've been thinking it over and now have a complete change of plan and budget!

I've listed below a set of speakers and amps I'm thinking of auditioning at a couple of stores near me, along with my CD5400. My room is about 8m x 6m and 3m high with softwood floors.

Any thoughts on the stengths/weaknesses of any of the combos?

Store 1 (local specialist):

Speakers - Rega RS3, RS5, B&W 684

Amps - Rega Brio-R, Rotel RA-04SE, Rotel RA-05SE

Store 2 (Richer Sounds):

Speakers - Tannoy Revolution DC6T, Mourdant-Short Aviano 8, Mezzo 6, Mezzo 8

Amps - Onkyo TX-8050, Marantz PM6004, Yamaha AS500, Arcam FMJ18

 

[Anonymous]

Okay, so, I've been thinking it over and now have a complete change of plan and budget!

I've listed below a set of speakers and amps I'm thinking of auditioning at a couple of stores near me, along with my CD5400. My room is about 8m x 6m and 3m high with softwood floors.

Any thoughts on the stengths/weaknesses of any of the combos?

Store 1 (local specialist):

Speakers - Rega RS3, RS5, B&W 684

Amps - Rega Brio-R, Rotel RA-04SE, Rotel RA-05SE

Store 2 (Richer Sounds):

Speakers - Tannoy Revolution DC6T, Mourdant-Short Aviano 8, Mezzo 6, Mezzo 8

Amps - Onkyo TX-8050, Marantz PM6004, Yamaha AS500, Arcam FMJ18

Store 1: Rega Brio-R or Rotel RA04SE with Rega RS3's/RS5's - SUPERB system; lovely detailed and articulate soundstage; not the last word in bass but with your taste in music that shouldnt matter too much; there'll still be more than enough

Richer Sounds: Onk or Marantz PM6004 with the Tannoy's for me; not keen on the MS Aviano or Mezzo speakers; found them wanting in a lot of places (flabby bass at times and the top end a bit brittle/dry)

 

[CnoEvil]

Store 1: Rega Brio-R or Rotel RA04SE with Rega RS3's/RS5's - SUPERB system; lovely detailed and articulate soundstage; not the last word in bass but with your taste in music that shouldnt matter too much; there'll still be more than enough

Richer Sounds: Onk or Marantz PM6004 with the Tannoy's for me; not keen on the MS Aviano or Mezzo speakers; found them wanting in a lot of places (flabby bass at times and the top end a bit brittle/dry)

That pretty much sums up my view as well, though I (personally) would take the Rega over the Rotel.

 

[Anonymous]

Store 1: Rega Brio-R or Rotel RA04SE with Rega RS3's/RS5's - SUPERB system; lovely detailed and articulate soundstage; not the last word in bass but with your taste in music that shouldnt matter too much; there'll still be more than enough

Richer Sounds: Onk or Marantz PM6004 with the Tannoy's for me; not keen on the MS Aviano or Mezzo speakers; found them wanting in a lot of places (flabby bass at times and the top end a bit brittle/dry)

That pretty much sums up my view as well, though I (personally) would take the Rega over the Rotel.

I would and I wouldnt

For classical and jazz; IMO Rega is very hard to beat (they have their superb soundstage down to a tee and an all Rega system is a fantastic system to have)

However the Rotel deals with classical and jazz very well but it's also very gopod with more modern, bassier music etc... If the OP were to look for this out of the Rega he'd struggle IMO as the Brio-R with RS3's and RS5's just doesnt cut the mustard when it comes to all down, deep, punchy, dirty bass!

 

[CnoEvil]

I would and I wouldnt

For classical and jazz; IMO Rega is very hard to beat (they have their superb soundstage down to a tee and an all Rega system is a fantastic system to have)

However the Rotel deals with classical and jazz very well but it's also very gopod with more modern, bassier music etc... If the OP were to look for this out of the Rega he'd struggle IMO as the Brio-R with RS3's and RS5's just doesnt cut the mustard when it comes to all down, deep, punchy, dirty bass!

My taste is similar to the OP, and I find Rotel a touch forward (but respect its ability).

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the advice so far.

I'm booked in to audition the Regas and Rotels at the weekend, plus hopefully the Tannoys with the Marantz/Onkyo. However, having called round 3 stores, each of them has consistently told me I'm spending too much on the speakers or too little on the amp. I was a bit surprised given all the positive comments here and in the January issue about the combination of the Rega Brio with the Rega speakers, but all the stores seemed to think the same thing.

Obviously at the end of the day what's most important is how it sounds to me, but do you think they have a point? Unless it makes a massive difference I'm not keen to go over £500 on the amp, so should I be looking more at speakers in the £400-£500 range?

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the advice so far.

I'm booked in to audition the Regas and Rotels at the weekend, plus hopefully the Tannoys with the Marantz/Onkyo. However, having called round 3 stores, each of them has consistently told me I'm spending too much on the speakers or too little on the amp. I was a bit surprised given all the positive comments here and in the January issue about the combination of the Rega Brio with the Rega speakers, but all the stores seemed to think the same thing.

Obviously at the end of the day what's most important is how it sounds to me, but do you think they have a point? Unless it makes a massive difference I'm not keen to go over £500 on the amp, so should I be looking more at speakers in the £400-£500 range?

It's up to you but I dont fully agree

I've heard my CR603 system with the PMC GB1i's and Neat Motive 2's (c£1400) and the CR603 drove them absoluterly brilliantly!

Just because an amp is 'only' £500 doesnt mean you need to match it with the same priced speakers!

I've heard the NAD C365BEE power the Monitor Audio GX200's and it did it with aplomb!

 

[acalex]

I would and I wouldnt

For classical and jazz; IMO Rega is very hard to beat (they have their superb soundstage down to a tee and an all Rega system is a fantastic system to have)

However the Rotel deals with classical and jazz very well but it's also very gopod with more modern, bassier music etc... If the OP were to look for this out of the Rega he'd struggle IMO as the Brio-R with RS3's and RS5's just doesnt cut the mustard when it comes to all down, deep, punchy, dirty bass!

My taste is similar to the OP, and I find Rotel a touch forward (but respect its ability).

I apologise with the OP, just a digression...what's the meaning of amp or speakers being forward? You said the same of my MA RX6 and wanted to ask but I forgot!

Thanks and sorry for the OT

 

[Anonymous]

I would and I wouldnt

For classical and jazz; IMO Rega is very hard to beat (they have their superb soundstage down to a tee and an all Rega system is a fantastic system to have)

However the Rotel deals with classical and jazz very well but it's also very gopod with more modern, bassier music etc... If the OP were to look for this out of the Rega he'd struggle IMO as the Brio-R with RS3's and RS5's just doesnt cut the mustard when it comes to all down, deep, punchy, dirty bass!

My taste is similar to the OP, and I find Rotel a touch forward (but respect its ability).

I apologise with the OP, just a digression...what's the meaning of amp or speakers being forward? You said the same of my MA RX6 and wanted to ask but I forgot!

Thanks and sorry for the OT

Usually when speakers are classed as 'forward' or 'dry/clinical' etc... It's usuallt the top end/tweeter that can sound a bit harsh etc...

Some people arent keen on M/A speakers as they use a metal tweeter but then a lot of others would say; use the right electronics and cable and they wont be forward at all etc...

 

[CnoEvil]

I apologise with the OP, just a digression...what's the meaning of amp or speakers being forward? You said the same of my MA RX6 and wanted to ask but I forgot!

Thanks and sorry for the OT

I will do my best, and as in all things hifi, it can be subjective.

For me, "forward" is best used as a "comparative term", as opposed to a definitive label ie. A way of describing the difference in presentation between two pieces kit.

The opposite of forward is "laid back", where forward is often associated with a brighter sound that almost "thrusts" the music at you.

If looking at speakers, I think they fall into three basic catagories: Forward (Triangle); Neutral (ATC); Warm/Dark (Spendor/Proac) The MAs that you own, have a more "forward" presentation than the SFs that you demoed.

As far as amps go, valves are generally (but not always) less forward than SS. SS amps that are not forward, would be the likes of Lavardin and Audio Analogue, with Cyrus and Naim giving a more upfront presentation.

IMO. Forward is the sound you are steering away from. Many people "think" they like it better, as it can sound more dramatic and exciting on a short demo....but on long term home listening, may find the sound fatiguing.

Hope that rather long winded preamble helps.

 

[Anonymous]

Would you consider 2nd hand?

I bought some old Epos Es -12 on ebay and they are far and away the best speaker I own for listening to classical music and jazz. Their timbre is very natural and woody, probably closest sound I've heard to being somewhere like the Albert Hall. Comparing these 15 year old design with more contempory ones show that current speakers tend to sound cleaner and drier, which not always what you want or is even accurate. There are currently a pair of M12's (ES 12 successor) up for grabs and the cabinets look to be in excellent shape which is always a good sign, just a thought.

 

[acalex]

I would and I wouldnt

For classical and jazz; IMO Rega is very hard to beat (they have their superb soundstage down to a tee and an all Rega system is a fantastic system to have)

However the Rotel deals with classical and jazz very well but it's also very gopod with more modern, bassier music etc... If the OP were to look for this out of the Rega he'd struggle IMO as the Brio-R with RS3's and RS5's just doesnt cut the mustard when it comes to all down, deep, punchy, dirty bass!

My taste is similar to the OP, and I find Rotel a touch forward (but respect its ability).

I apologise with the OP, just a digression...what's the meaning of amp or speakers being forward? You said the same of my MA RX6 and wanted to ask but I forgot!

Thanks and sorry for the OT

Usually when speakers are classed as 'forward' or 'dry/clinical' etc... It's usuallt the top end/tweeter that can sound a bit harsh etc...

Some people arent keen on M/A speakers as they use a metal tweeter but then a lot of others would say; use the right electronics and cable and they wont be forward at all etc...

Thanks a lot for the nice explanation!