As you had the A65+, what are the main differences between your old amp and the A85? It may sound like a dopey question, but I've never heard the A85, just the compliments from joel.
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When should you upgrade your hi-fi? How to control ‘upgradeitis’
Big Chris. . .A comparative question
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matthewpiano
Well-known member
I think that a few people can help you with this comparision... the main problem in direct comparision is that language is such an ineffectual tool when trying to describe sound...
The Arcam A65+ was a lovely little unit, it was like (I realised with hindsight) owning a Mini Cooper or some such car. Puts a smile on your face and over-performs in so many areas... but ultimately it is not like owning a bigger plusher car. With the right speakers the A65+ puts up a wonderful performance (maybe a little bright) but when you try and stretch it... by turning the volume up, or putting on really sonically demanding stuff it is just not as at ease as the A85 which has loads of power and is not phased by anything, at any volume. The gap between the A65+ and the A85 is exactly the same that I felt between the the A85 and the A32 that I have now... but you only realise it when you go back and listen to the older stuff after upgrading... instead of hearing the beauty that you heard at first you only hear the differences between the old and the new... This was demonstrated to me when I had to send the A32 into Arcam to be serviced and went back to the A85 and (I felt so bad about this because I loved/love the A85/P85 combo I had) I felt annoyed because it just did not perform as well... such is life.
The Arcam A65+ was a lovely little unit, it was like (I realised with hindsight) owning a Mini Cooper or some such car. Puts a smile on your face and over-performs in so many areas... but ultimately it is not like owning a bigger plusher car. With the right speakers the A65+ puts up a wonderful performance (maybe a little bright) but when you try and stretch it... by turning the volume up, or putting on really sonically demanding stuff it is just not as at ease as the A85 which has loads of power and is not phased by anything, at any volume. The gap between the A65+ and the A85 is exactly the same that I felt between the the A85 and the A32 that I have now... but you only realise it when you go back and listen to the older stuff after upgrading... instead of hearing the beauty that you heard at first you only hear the differences between the old and the new... This was demonstrated to me when I had to send the A32 into Arcam to be serviced and went back to the A85 and (I felt so bad about this because I loved/love the A85/P85 combo I had) I felt annoyed because it just did not perform as well... such is life.
The A65+, by my reckoning, is very underrated. I know from comparing it with Kandy LIII and Cyrus 8VS2, course it lacks in certain areas - as pointed out when pushed really hard. My living room is fairly compact and with RS6's it doesn't sound dry or insiped, it sounds well detailed and balanced.
When I bought it 5 years ago, I tested against the Nad 352 and Rotel RA-02. Those two amps demonstrated a tad more detail and deeper bass, but lacked a little balance and overall feel compared to the Arcam.
Also the A65 & A75 are unique in the DIVA range in as far as their not lit up like Blackpool tower. From the early eighties I've always based an amp, and its performance, on whether it has minimum lighting - it's a tenuous theory, but that's what I was told at the time. Does that theory have any credence?
When I bought it 5 years ago, I tested against the Nad 352 and Rotel RA-02. Those two amps demonstrated a tad more detail and deeper bass, but lacked a little balance and overall feel compared to the Arcam.
Also the A65 & A75 are unique in the DIVA range in as far as their not lit up like Blackpool tower. From the early eighties I've always based an amp, and its performance, on whether it has minimum lighting - it's a tenuous theory, but that's what I was told at the time. Does that theory have any credence?
matthewpiano
Well-known member
In many ways, and in all seriousness, I would actually agree with PP.
I think the A65+'s big downfalling is the lack of authority and attack in larger scale music, but it is very good at many things including soundstaging/imaging and tonal reproduction. I would also say it was quite a bit better than the A70 which replaced it.
What the A85 brings to the party is that authority and scale that the A65+ lacks. Suddenly, you get the full dynamic swings and you feel like you are listening to a bigger orchestra or a band who are playing with more passion. This was, of course, reflected by the difference in price between the two units.
I think the A65+'s big downfalling is the lack of authority and attack in larger scale music, but it is very good at many things including soundstaging/imaging and tonal reproduction. I would also say it was quite a bit better than the A70 which replaced it.
What the A85 brings to the party is that authority and scale that the A65+ lacks. Suddenly, you get the full dynamic swings and you feel like you are listening to a bigger orchestra or a band who are playing with more passion. This was, of course, reflected by the difference in price between the two units.
matthewpiano:In many ways, and in all seriousness, I would actually agree with PP. I think the A65+'s big downfalling is the lack of authority and attack in larger scale music, but it is very good at many things including soundstaging/imaging and tonal reproduction. I would also say it was quite a bit better than the A70 which replaced it. What the A85 brings to the party is that authority and scale that the A65+ lacks. Suddenly, you get the full dynamic swings and you feel like you are listening to a bigger orchestra or a band who are playing with more passion. This was, of course, reflected by the difference in price between the two units.
Compared to the A70, you are soooo right. When I tested the A70 I so wanted it to sound "gobsmackingly good". Instead I was sitting there tapping my fingers waiting for something to happen, sonically, but it didn't. I was gutted and disappointed at the level of performance of the A70. . . .And I'm a huge Arcam fan, which tells its own story.
Compared to the A70, you are soooo right. When I tested the A70 I so wanted it to sound "gobsmackingly good". Instead I was sitting there tapping my fingers waiting for something to happen, sonically, but it didn't. I was gutted and disappointed at the level of performance of the A70. . . .And I'm a huge Arcam fan, which tells its own story.
I haven't heard the A65, but my A85/P85 combo isn't out of place in my system with £2k speakers and a £2.5k CDP. Yes, they will be the next to be upgraded but I need to be on best behaviour for a while
The A85 has brought a more pacey sound to the table, but I will say the difference between A85 & A65+ isn't night and day. I found a larger improvement when I upgraded the CDP to the 192. If I had to upgrade one item, and one item only, it'd be the CDP. Don't get me wrong. The A85 is a step up (and it's nice to finally see what volume I'm using..... Frosted glass doors on my A/V unit prevented so on the 65), but I didn't have that stupid grin thing when listening to music like I had with the 192. Evolution, not revolution is the best description I guess.
I hope the A85 will show its abilities further when I upgrade my speakers. It's a case of double price doesn't buy you double the performance. Joel has said pretty much the same thing with his latest upgrade.
It's good to know (as you found out with the Cyrus & Roksan PP) that the A65+ isn't the biggest pile of you-know-what that seems to be the popular consensus on these boards.
I hope the A85 will show its abilities further when I upgrade my speakers. It's a case of double price doesn't buy you double the performance. Joel has said pretty much the same thing with his latest upgrade.
It's good to know (as you found out with the Cyrus & Roksan PP) that the A65+ isn't the biggest pile of you-know-what that seems to be the popular consensus on these boards.
Big Chris:The A85 has brought a more pacey sound to the table, but I will say the difference between A85 & A65+ isn't night and day. I found a larger improvement when I upgraded the CDP to the 192. If I had to upgrade one item, and one item only, it'd be the CDP. Don't get me wrong. The A85 is a step up (and it's nice to finally see what volume I'm using..... Frosted glass doors on my A/V unit prevented so on the 65), but I didn't have that stupid grin thing when listening to music like I had with the 192. Evolution, not revolution is the best description I guess. I hope the A85 will show its abilities further when I upgrade my speakers. It's a case of double price doesn't buy you double the performance. Joel has said pretty much the same thing with his latest upgrade. It's good to know (as you found out with the Cyrus & Roksan PP) that the A65+ isn't the biggest pile of you-know-what that seems to be the popular consensus on these boards.
Thanks Chris, that's interesting. Clearly the A65 isn't a pile, so maybe its worth lumping on a DIVA power amp and see how it stacks up.
Thanks Chris, that's interesting. Clearly the A65 isn't a pile, so maybe its worth lumping on a DIVA power amp and see how it stacks up.
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