bi-amping

[sonic21]

hi guys,

im a newbie in this forum, am gald to be in this wonderful forum!

i will be bi-amping my speakers, so getting an additional power amp soon. read an article on this website http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm#summary

quote:<"There is one area where you may find that changing to a biamped system cases an apparent loss of bass response. This is rare, but in some cases the cabinet design may have been optimised for the woofer, including the resistance of the series inductor in the passive crossover. This is especially true for very well designed ported boxes. The result is that a biamped system is slightly over-damped by comparison, resulting in a loss of bass response.">
now im worried if the issue of loss of bass response will occur in my case. im using roksan kandy k2 intergrated amp with b&w 684 speakers.will add the kandy k2 power amp which will drive the LF. i have ordered the power amp which will be arriving hopefully by end of the month. i could not audition it cause there is no demo set at my local dealer. the other thing i read in another article that i need an electronic crossover or not it wouldnt be real biamping?i thought it would be just a simple connection were from the intergated amp to the HF speaker terminal would use 1 speaker cable and from the power amp to the LF speaker terminal would use 1 speaker cable. for the interconnects from intergrated amp's pre out to the power amp's input. that's it...my question is would i have loss of bass? do i need an electronic crossover? what other setups i have to do besides the above mentioned?sorry if my explanation is not clear. be grateful if anybody could answer me.

 

[abacus]

If your speaker has links on the back (Connecting the bass & treble together) then it is designed for bi-amping (Just remember to remove the links) so go ahead.

It’s probable that more control of the bass will occur when bi-amping , however this will not decrease the bass just give you a more controlled bass.

The only time you would need an electronic crossover is if you removed the crossover in the speaker itself.

Hope this helps

Bill

 

[Crossie]

+1 what Bill said.

 

[sonic21]

If your speaker has links on the back (Connecting the bass & treble together) then it is designed for bi-amping (Just remember to remove the links) so go ahead.

It’s probable that more control of the bass will occur when bi-amping , however this will not decrease the bass just give you a more controlled bass.

The only time you would need an electronic crossover is if you removed the crossover in the speaker itself.

Hope this helps

Bill

what a relief! yes i will be removing the links/jumpers. thanks for your help Bill. great forum with fast response.

 

[Aled Clayton]

I also found biamping gives a dramatic improvement in dynamics and soundstage- as each amp has less load, the burden is shared.

does make an amazing difference, at least with my setup which is fairly low cost.

 

[Singslinger]

I also found biamping gives a dramatic improvement in dynamics and soundstage- as each amp has less load, the burden is shared. does make an amazing difference, at least with my setup which is fairly low cost.

Yes me too. I'm running a biamped system as well and have found a vast improvement in clarity, punch and dynamics.

 

[Big Chris]

All I can do is echo the comments above.

Bi-amping made a marked improvement for me.

 

[davedotco]

I am totally in the other camp.

I can understand the appeal of just adding a power amplifier to an existing setup, looks like a simple and effective upgrade but I have never really found it value for money.

This is particularly true where the existing amps are of modest quality, so although it is a lot more upheaval, my view is just buy a better amplifier.

 

[sonic21]

i hope for the dramatic change to as ive read a few articles and its worth it. offcourse different people have different opinons and i respect that. i got this power amp at a good offer and buying a new better amp would cost more, over my budget. besides i still love this roksan amp cause its easy to match and its all-rounder. i listen to many genre's of music.

tks for giving me the positive comments guys! looking forward to bi-amping.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

I found biamping of no benefit. My system. My room. Most importantly my ears. So ....... unless u are me, I would ignore my post.

 

[hammill]

I am totally in the other camp.

I can understand the appeal of just adding a power amplifier to an existing setup, looks like a simple and effective upgrade but I have never really found it value for money.

This is particularly true where the existing amps are of modest quality, so although it is a lot more upheaval, my view is just buy a better amplifier.

Like Big Chris I have an Onkyo 875, which enables you to Bi-amp the front speakers at no extra cost (apart from a bit of cable). I did this on the advice of the sainted Mr Everard and I thought it sounded better. You may well be right that if you have to buy another amp it is not cost effective.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

I found biamping of no benefit. My system. My room. Most importantly my ears. So ....... unless u are me, I would ignore my post.

As a slight aside - maybe my biamping 'negative' impression was partly to do with the av receiver too. Biamping a stereo amp may be an entirely different game of marbles?

 

[davedotco]

I found biamping of no benefit. My system. My room. Most importantly my ears. So ....... unless u are me, I would ignore my post.

As a slight aside - maybe my biamping 'negative' impression was partly to do with the av receiver too. Biamping a stereo amp may be an entirely different game of marbles?

Er, no its not.

You may get a slight improvement, though in many cases not but in any case it does not come close to justifying the cost. This is of course my opinion and other views are available but I have done this dem many dozens of times and stuggled to make the change worthwhile.

The A/V reciever point is an interesting one. The idea that, in a 2 channel system you get the extra channels (to bi-amp) for free is a fallacy.

In all one box recievers that I have seen the power amplifiers all share the same power supply and in some cases (though not all) not a particularly potent one. Splitting the power supply in this way could lead to a reduction of power, and more importantly headroom on the amplifiers that are doing the vast bulk of the 'work', ie the bass amplifiers and this could easily negate any advantage gained by bi-amping.

Some interesting experiments to be done there, sometimes I hate not being a dealer anymore........ :wall:

 

[RobinKidderminster]

All in one box receiver? Mine came in one box Point taken tho - all this confirms.the reason my biamping was not beneficial.

 

[El Hefe]

sonic21,

As far as I can remember, I have always bi-amped my speakers. In fact, I put this as one of the criteria when choosing a pair of new speakers. I personally find that adding a matching power amp gives a big step up in bass control. It is however always being debated whether bi-amp doesgive any improvement.

I do suggest for you to also do a 'reverse' trial. Meaning...hook up the power amp to biamp.....listen to it for a period of time.... its OK if you didnt hear any changes.... then un-hook the power amp and go back to a non-biamp set up and see whether you had 'lost' any musicality from the bi-amp trial period.

Bottom line...if you benefit from bi-amp...stick to it.... if not ...there is always ebay

 

[sonic21]

sonic21,

As far as I can remember, I have always bi-amped my speakers. In fact, I put this as one of the criteria when choosing a pair of new speakers. I personally find that adding a matching power amp gives a big step up in bass control. It is however always being debated whether bi-amp doesgive any improvement.

I do suggest for you to also do a 'reverse' trial. Meaning...hook up the power amp to biamp.....listen to it for a period of time.... its OK if you didnt hear any changes.... then un-hook the power amp and go back to a non-biamp set up and see whether you had 'lost' any musicality from the bi-amp trial period.

Bottom line...if you benefit from bi-amp...stick to it.... if not ...there is always ebay

i will have that trial, thanks for the idea El Hefe.

 

[Overdose]

Bi-amping is only of benefit if your current amplifier struggles to properly control your speakers at the volumes you listen at. Passive bi-amping also doesn't bypass the internal speaker crossover so the gains in this area are also minimal to non existant. The best way to bi-amp is to go active.

In your situation, if you think that your current amp is not enough, then a better and more powerfil integrated might be the best way forward, something like the MF A5? You could also see if you can borrow a pro audio poweramp and see what that sounds like.

Anyone who has reaped benefits from passive bi-amping has had an amplifier not up to the job or no benefit would have been realised.

 

[sonic21]

Bi-amping is only of benefit if your current amplifier struggles to properly control your speakers at the volumes you listen at. Passive bi-amping also doesn't bypass the internal speaker crossover so the gains in this area are also minimal to non existant. The best way to bi-amp is to go active.

In your situation, if you think that your current amp is not enough, then a better and more powerfil integrated might be the best way forward, something like the MF A5? You could also see if you can borrow a pro audio poweramp and see what that sounds like.

Anyone who has reaped benefits from passive bi-amping has had an amplifier not up to the job or no benefit would have been realised.

thanks for your advice. i have already ordered the power amp and cant cancel it. will do some trial, if bi-amping doesnt work for me then i will just use the power amp to drive both HF and LF. at the moment my intergrated amp output is 125wpc if i bi-amped will output 250wpc? correct me if im wrong but im sure there will be some improvement with 250wpc output?

 

[the record spot]

I biamped my speakers using the additional discrete power amps in my Onkyo. Delighted with the results.

 

[sonic21]

im confuse now. some people say there will be changes, some say minor changes and some say no changes at all. the best is to judge this myself and will let u guys know the results. the amp should be arriving in 1 to 2 weeks time hopefully.

 

[El Hefe]

im confuse now. some people say there will be changes, some say minor changes and some say no changes at all. the best is to judge this myself and will let u guys know the results. the amp should be arriving in 1 to 2 weeks time hopefully.

+1 to that...

that is the best way... If u can notice the different and like it... Then keep it... If not, just go back to non bi-amp... Do let us know how u get on with it..

 

[sonic21]

will do El Hefe.

 

[abacus]

In a conventional speaker the crossover is as one, which means the upper and lower will interact with each other, (The better the design of the crossover the less interaction) by separating the upper and lower (Bi- amping) you remove this interaction thus allowing the speaker to perform better. (How much will be determined by how good the crossover was in the first place)

Bi amping does not double your power (Unless the additional amp has double the power of the first) which will always remain the same, however it will put less strain on the power supplies in the amps which should also improve performance. (How much of an improvement will be determined by how good the power supplies are in the amps)

You will always (Without exception) notice a difference in the sound when you bi-amp, but only you will be able to decide if it does what you want.

Active speakers give ultimate control as everything is integrated and designed to work together, however they are more expensive and need connection via balanced connectors for best performance, (Which as most Hi Fi amps don’t have them means you will not be getting the best from them) it also means more mains cables running around the place which in most domestic installations is a no from the boss.

Hope this helps

Bill

 

[sonic21]

In a conventional speaker the crossover is as one, which means the upper and lower will interact with each other, (The better the design of the crossover the less interaction) by separating the upper and lower (Bi- amping) you remove this interaction thus allowing the speaker to perform better. (How much will be determined by how good the crossover was in the first place)

Bi amping does not double your power (Unless the additional amp has double the power of the first) which will always remain the same, however it will put less strain on the power supplies in the amps which should also improve performance. (How much of an improvement will be determined by how good the power supplies are in the amps)

You will always (Without exception) notice a difference in the sound when you bi-amp, but only you will be able to decide if it does what you want.

Active speakers give ultimate control as everything is integrated and designed to work together, however they are more expensive and need connection via balanced connectors for best performance, (Which as most Hi Fi amps don’t have them means you will not be getting the best from them) it also means more mains cables running around the place which in most domestic installations is a no from the boss.

Hope this helps

Bill

noted, tks again Bill. this helps.

 

[Overdose]

Anyone wanting to 'bi-amp' would do well to read and try to understand paragraph 5 of the information in THIS article.

Whatever you decide to do, do it properly and do it once, or it will hit you in the wallet.