Best of both worlds - stereo and surround ?

[admin_exported]

I posted on a similar vein to this in the Hi fi forum but had no opinions in reply

Essentially I am running a B and W Home theatre 685 system with an upgraded CM1 centre speaker driven by a Denon 2309 ( the previoius model to its acclaimed younger brother ) the 685 fronts are bi amped, my source is a Pana BD 35.

Biggish Room 7 m x 4 m

All well and good- but at this price point you compromise the stereo sound at two levels - transport and amp.

So plan B is to add a Naim CD5X and Nait xs with its av bypass function which will drive the front speakers. I would like to replace the 685's with the Spendor A 6'S , using the 685's as rears in a revised surround set up . Spendors are not bi wireable so my thinking is that I can use the Denon to drive the rears as if they were fronts and they can then be bi wired.

Questions a) Can this be done b) will the crossover mix of Spendor and B and W work c) is the av bypass function going to deliver a Naim sound through my Spendors d) Do I have to revise the connections from my Sky HD to the Denon amp so that the Spendors are used or is that all covered by the right input/ output on the XS by pass

Answers/ Comments please

Thanks

 

[Gerrardasnails]

peebs:
I posted on a similar vein to this in the Hi fi forum but had no opinions in reply

Essentially I am running a B and W Home theatre 685 system with an upgraded CM1 centre speaker driven by a Denon 2309 ( the previoius model to its acclaimed younger brother ) the 685 fronts are bi amped, my source is a Pana BD 35.

Biggish Room 7 m x 4 m

All well and good- but at this price point you compromise the stereo sound at two levels - transport and amp.

So plan B is to add a Naim CD5X and Nait xs with its av bypass function which will drive the front speakers. I would like to replace the 685's with the Spendor A 6'S , using the 685's as rears in a revised surround set up . Spendors are not bi wireable so my thinking is that I can use the Denon to drive the rears as if they were fronts and they can then be bi wired.

Questions a) Can this be done b) will the crossover mix of Spendor and B and W work c) is the av bypass function going to deliver a Naim sound through my Spendors d) Do I have to revise the connections from my Sky HD to the Denon amp so that the Spendors are used or is that all covered by the right input/ output on the XS by pass

Answers/ Comments please

Thanks

The way you describe what you want, the Denon would be the only amp driving your rears. You connect your Spendors to the Naim amp and then all the other speakers (inc sub) to the Denon. You then need a pair of stereo interconnects to run from the Denon's front left and right pre outs to a spare input on the Naim (say Tape for instance). Set your Naim to a memorable volume like 12 o'clock, make sure it's set to "Tape" and then run the auto calibrator on the receiver. Once you have tweaked it to how you want it, you need the receiver on and the Naim on and set to "Tape" and at 12 o'clock volume when you want to watch a film or whatever with surround sound. To increase the volume, you only use the remote for the Denon. When you want to listen to music (2 channel), the receiver is not in the equation and doesn't need to be on.

I should add, to get the balance right at the front, I would get a Spendor centre speaker. Your B&W's as rears will work fine with the Spendors. The whole sound would be brilliant, I'd imagine.

 

[roger06]

The Naim amp has a dedicated AV input - don't need to use a tape input or similar and worry about the volume control. The output from the AV amp is passed through this and the Naim's volume control is disabled so no need to worry about it.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

roger06:The Naim amp has a dedicated AV input - don't need to use a tape input or similar and worry about the volume control. The output from the AV amp is passed through this and the Naim's volume control is disabled so no need to worry about it.

Even better, I wasn't aware that the Naim had that - my Cambridge has the same - makes life a lot more simple.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks chaps - so I was hoping it will work in principle , that' s good news. Interesting idea about the speaker channel ...

So am I right in thinking that the Denon avr remote or in my case the Harmony 555 will adjust the volume on the Nait XS ?

But three outstanding questions remain a) will I still get all the gain and umph from the Nait amp as it drives the Spendors at the front

b) Will I be able to bi wire my 685's as rears ie take the existing front speaker outputs on the Denon and run cable to the rears - will that not confuse the auto calibration when I run it or because the new fronts will run off the Nait amp it won't matter

c) Do Spendors deserve better speaker cable than my current QED Silver anniversary ... such as Chord Odyssey

Cheers

 

[Gerrardasnails]

peebs:
Thanks chaps - so I was hoping it will work in principle , that' s good news. Interesting idea about the speaker channel ...

So am I right in thinking that the Denon avr remote or in my case the Harmony 555 will adjust the volume on the Nait XS ?

But three outstanding questions remain a) will I still get all the gain and umph from the Nait amp as it drives the Spendors at the front

b) Will I be able to bi wire my 685's as rears ie take the existing front speaker outputs on the Denon and run cable to the rears - will that not confuse the auto calibration when I run it or because the new fronts will run off the Nait amp it won't matter

c) Do Spendors deserve better speaker cable than my current QED Silver anniversary ... such as Chord Odyssey

Cheers

First of all; the Denon remote does not adjust the volume of the Nait. Once you have the volume fixed on the Nait, the Denon remote adjusts the volume on the Denon only.

The sound will be exactly the same as you will only have the Spendors connected to the Nait so there will be no difference.

There is no point whatsoever in bi-wiring rear speakers in my opinion and I reckon it would cause a problem the way you describe doing it.

Yes.

 

[roger06]

Again! 'fixing' the volume on the Nait is not relevant - you simply hit the AV button and that's it!

My Harmony 555 (shortly to go on eBay as it's rubbish) is set to change the input on the Nait to AV, then the input on the AV receiver (not that I have one at the mo) to the appropriate input.

I have wondered whether using a Nait (or similar) in an AV set up improves things as the signal is passed thru a very high quality amp, or degrades the signal as it's an extra interconnect and more circuitry to pass thru.

Before I sent my Sony STR DA2400 back the fronts powered this way certainly sounded awesome.

 

[BJB]

peebs:

I posted on a similar vein to this in the Hi fi forum but had no opinions in reply

Essentially I am running a B and W Home theatre 685 system with an upgraded CM1 centre speaker driven by a Denon 2309 ( the previoius model to its acclaimed younger brother ) the 685 fronts are bi amped, my source is a Pana BD 35.

Biggish Room 7 m x 4 m

All well and good- but at this price point you compromise the stereo sound at two levels - transport and amp.

So plan B is to add a Naim CD5X and Nait xs with its av bypass function which will drive the front speakers. I would like to replace the 685's with the Spendor A 6'S , using the 685's as rears in a revised surround set up . Spendors are not bi wireable so my thinking is that I can use the Denon to drive the rears as if they were fronts and they can then be bi wired.

Questions a) Can this be done b) will the crossover mix of Spendor and B and W work c) is the av bypass function going to deliver a Naim sound through my Spendors d) Do I have to revise the connections from my Sky HD to the Denon amp so that the Spendors are used or is that all covered by the right input/ output on the XS by pass

Answers/ Comments please

Thanks

Hi Peebs. I know this may be a bit off topic but I was wondering why you upgraded the regular HTM-62 center speaker, and why you did not upgrade to the HTM-61 center speaker. I recently purchased the 684 speaker package, which included the HTM-62 center speaker. The manual indicated that the 62 is suitable for small to medium sized rooms. We have an open plan lounge and dining room measuring 12m wide and 5.5m long, of which 5m wide and 5.5m long is dedicated to the lounge area. Ceilings are about 5m high. I contacted the dealer and they thought that the 62 would be fine for my room size, but recommended the 61 if I wanted a more powerful center speaker. The problem is that a number of reviews appear to indicate that the 61 is not a great center speaker. Your thoughts would be very much appreciated.

 

[Anonymous]

BJB - the Centre Speaker answer is prosaic I'm afraid . When last December I went to audio T to get the Denon 2309 and B and W 685 HT package , they threw in the CM1 centre speaker for no extra cost . It wasn't my choice - but is obviously a better CS, if from a different B and W range. Gloss back as well but blends with the ash black of the rest.It's also bigger and technically kicks a bit more butt than the 62

The other often mentioned weakness of the 685 HT is the sub - with its big brothe 610 getting all the plaudits. But I 've been quite content with the boom box and actually because the 685 fronts are a tad bassy I don't seem to lack in that department

 

[Anonymous]

My Harmony is great fun , although you have got to be prepared to learn from your mistakes it sometimes is surprisingly counter intuitive !

I still haven't worked out how to get Harmony to control the Denon I doc ASD 3W showing it's pictures on the TV monitor. I can get sound no problem. But I have to push an input select from my AVR remote ( which sort of defeats the object of the exercise )

But I have 11 pieces of kit programmes into the 555 and so far that is the only permutation I haven't cracked !!

 

[BJB]

Peebs - thanks for your response anyway.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

roger06:
Again! 'fixing' the volume on the Nait is not relevant - you simply hit the AV button and that's it!

My Harmony 555 (shortly to go on eBay as it's rubbish) is set to change the input on the Nait to AV, then the input on the AV receiver (not that I have one at the mo) to the appropriate input.

I have wondered whether using a Nait (or similar) in an AV set up improves things as the signal is passed thru a very high quality amp, or degrades the signal as it's an extra interconnect and more circuitry to pass thru.

Before I sent my Sony STR DA2400 back the fronts powered this way certainly sounded awesome.

No need to be pedantic Roger. For a second, I forgot that the Naim has the AV feature - apologies. In theory the volume is fixed though, you just don't have to do it yourself. As for your thinking about if there is any loss in quality; I would say that the Naim is acting as a power amp for your front two in the 5.1 and would anything, improve the sound.

 

[roger06]

Sorry! Not meaning to be pedantic - only trying to be helpful!

I just need to buy a new AC receiver now - but having been burned so badly with my recent Sony experience I'm undecided... The Yamaha RX 1065 is looking favourite I think...

 

[Gerrardasnails]

roger06:
Sorry! Not meaning to be pedantic - only trying to be helpful!

I just need to buy a new AC receiver now - but having been burned so badly with my recent Sony experience I'm undecided... The Yamaha RX 1065 is looking favourite I think...

No worries. Have you demo'd any with your troublesome centre speaker? I know you don't want to hear it but my Sony 3400es is great!

 

[roger06]

Well I'm somewhat banging my head again the wall here... I reckon my shortlist is the Sony 2400, Yam 1065 and the Denon 1910. Phoned one SevenOaks who don't sell Sony and say they've had problems with the Yamahas so don't sell those either! Then called another branch who, again, have only got the Denon.

I'll have to give Richer Sounds a call or just risk buying online again...

 

[Anonymous]

Gerrardasnails ... How does the Ht bypass work on the Cambridge audio840A as after reading the manual of the 840a I could find nowhere a reference to an HT bypass,

Thanks

 

[Gerrardasnails]

daspaceman:
Gerrardasnails ... How does the Ht bypass work on the Cambridge audio840A as after reading the manual of the 840a I could find nowhere a reference to an HT bypass,

Thanks

It's not called that daspaceman, it's called Fixed Input. You can name an input (mine is AV) and you can fix the level, mine is fixed to about 1 O'clock. So, once you have connected the AV input to the pre outs on your receiver with a pair of interconnects, you run the calibration of your speakers. Then when you want to watch a film or whatever with surround sound, you have your AV input selected on the 840 and then just use the remote on your receiver.