BBC HD has new encoders but slashes bit rates by 40% at same time

[admin_exported]

For those who don't know BBC HD slashed picture bitrates by 40% last week:

http://www.linowsat.de/0282/bitrate/2050/6940.html

Down from 16 previously to 9 mbps - one of the lowest HD channels in the country:

http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/satellite_hdtv_bit_rates.php

Previously it had been as high as 20+

New encoding should offset some of the quality loss, but overall I'm not impressed with the new picture. Comparisons of the same show (wallander) recorded Dec 08 to last week showed a 10-20% reduction in picture quality by my estimate , on a medium complexity scene for the encoder (ie not fast paced or sports action where I'd expect the deterioration to be worse)

more news and other views here on the BBC HD blog:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/11/bbc_hd_picture_quality_and_dol.html

 

[Anonymous]

The same had happened with a lot of Channels on SkyHD, the more HD channels they add, the lower the bitrates will become.

 

[tvmog]

Interesting, as I was about to post asking if anyone else had noticed a sharp reduction in picture quality on BBC HD. Tuesday nights'"Coast" barely qualified for the HD label and watching a repeat of "Torchwood" last night it was obvious that it was nowhere near as sharp and detailed as on the original broadcast.

 

[Big Aura]

I've been noticing it too. What's the point, a decent upscaler produces nearly the same quality...

 

[pete321]

What encoders are they using? If it's H264 you're probably unlikely to see a lot of difference.

 

[Xanderzdad]

I suppose the only upside is that they take up less room in your Sky planner allowing more recordings.

Personally I would put up with less recordings at higher quality - after all I can always fit a bigger hard disk (once it is out of warranty, obviously!)

 

[Anonymous]

Just BBC HD?

Can't comment on BBC HD as I'm pretty "focused" in what I watch, but I've been feeling the F1 is pretty poor of late and wondering if it's just me. BBC was in the upper tier in terms of PQ/bitrates and that was another bonus of BBC having F1 over ITV. You really do notice the difference between decent and poor SD on a 50" plasma.

 

[strobo]

I suspect Virgin PQ in general has dropped recently. Even our SD cable TV used to be far better than the rooftop aerial could muster (with HD being far superior again), but now I find the SD aerial picture is infinitely better and smoother than the SD Virgin picture - with the Virgin box doing the upscaling (and no matter what settings I use). I've also tried different cables, and even moved the boxes about just in case it's an interference problem, but nothing has improved things.

I think I'll be complaining to Virgin sometime soon.

 

[pete321]

Haven't the BBC leased some of their bandwidth to ITV for their HD service? Not sure, but that may have necessitated the lower transmission bitrates.

As for Virgin Media, my picture quality is great, can't say that I've noticed any drop in PQ. Perhaps it's a regional issue?

 

[daveh75]

pete321:
Haven't the BBC leased some of their bandwidth to ITV for their HD service? Not sure, but that may have necessitated the lower transmission bitrates.

As for Virgin Media, my picture quality is great, can't say that I've noticed any drop in PQ. Perhaps it's a regional issue?
That's for DTT, the op was refering to satellite broadcast's.

 

[5cats35]

I think they have done that on Sky Sports HD as well.

When watching the Ashes last weekend I noticed some motion blurring when the bowlers were running in (a bit like the England batsmen did as well!) and had seen that in the first 3 Tests.

It will be interesting to see what the footie is like this week end.

COYS

 

[ashcorn]

Just had a look at the BBC HD preview over Sky HD. The colours look washed out instead of nicely saturated as they used to be and the picture has a definate graininess where as it used to be clear. What the devil are the BBC thinking?

 

[Gerrardasnails]

5cats35:
I think they have done that on Sky Sports HD as well.

When watching the Ashes last weekend I noticed some motion blurring when the bowlers were running in (a bit like the England batsmen did as well!) and had seen that in the first 3 Tests.

It will be interesting to see what the footie is like this week end.

COYS

I think Sky Sports is just as good as usual but I signed up for ESPN and the HD channel has not shown one native HD programme yet.

 

[Sorreltiger]

I suspect that you'll have to wait until the Premiership football - I believe that they are using Sky's technical kit and cameras and simply putting in their own presenters.

 

[tvmog]

ashcorn:Just had a look at the BBC HD preview over Sky HD. The colours look washed out instead of nicely saturated as they used to be and the picture has a definate graininess where as it used to be clear. What the devil are the BBC thinking?

They are probably thinking that we won't notice (or complain). Television broadcasters do not credit their viewers with much intelligence these days.

There was a shocking amount of "grain" in some sequeneces of "Rivers" on Sunday night but I put that down to a "one off" piece of poor filming. It was only on watching "Coast" and "Torchwood" that I began to suspect that something had changed.

The latest conspiracy theory emerging from other forums is that the BBC are downgrading the PQ to the maximum that will be achievable on freeview later next year, so that no one platform for the service is perceived as being superior to the others.

I think that generally we will see quantity winning out over quality as HD services expand. With no legal definition of what constitutes HD broadcasters will obviously attempt to sqeeze the maximum amount out of available bandwidth.

 

[strobo]

tvmog:
They are probably thinking that we won't notice (or complain). Television broadcasters do not credit their viewers with much intelligence these days.

I suspect you have hit the nail right on the head there.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Sad news for TV viewers, but great for the Blu-ray lobby. I'm watching BD boxsets of Mad Men at the moment, and the picture and sound quality excels.

We're going to follow this up with broadcasters and get some official comment.

 

[daveh75]

There is lot's of comment's on this bbc blog by Andy Quested,with responses from AQ about the issue.

You need to scroll about half way down the page for the relevent post's....

 

[GazzyP]

For the last week I have been checking if my TV was on HDMI, and not SCART whilst watch HD, because the picture didnt have the pin sharp clarity I have been used to on BBC HD - and this is clearly why! The picture is starting to look like a good SD channel now. Completely pointless. I doubt I will be renewing my SKY HD next time round. May as well get Freesat if this is as good as it gets. Makes Blu-ray an absolute treat though!

 

[Fee]

I've got Virgin V+, can't say I've studied it much this week or know if the lower bitrate affects it or just Sky HD, but have to agree that this week's Coast looked barely HD. It is nice to see they're finally getting some more HD channels though.

Anyway, if there is a problem with bandwidth on whatever platform, here's my simple solution for the broadcasters - get rid of the useless channels, starting with all the +1's, that should free up plenty of bandwidth!

 

[Andy Clough]

Clare Newsome:
Sad news for TV viewers, but great for the Blu-ray lobby. I'm watching BD boxsets of Mad Men at the moment, and the picture and sound quality excels.

We're going to follow this up with broadcasters and get some official comment.

Interesting. I've just got a new telly and the contrast between Blu-ray and broadcast HD is far more marked than on my old set. This may be why. As Clare says, we'll definitely follow this up with the BBC and other broadcasters on Monday.

Similar thing happened with audio quality on DAB radio when the Beeb started slashing the bit-rates, even on R3 and R4.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes the Picture Quality On BBCHD is nothing like it use to be so i hope u do raise this with them next week, i think im right in saying Danielee Nagger is in charge of BBCHD i sent her an email regarding Highlights Of Premiership Football on HD and she never got back to me, typical though.

 

[laserman16]

The BBC also seem to be doing on Freeview in sd. Torchwood in HD was mentioned earlier in this post but the sd version was also broadcast at a lower than usual bitrate, about 10-12% down I think.

Very strange really given that they were advertising it very heavily for weeks before, so one would assume they considered it one of their flagship programmes and as such surely would have wanted to present it as well as possible.

 

[Anonymous]

After a week of complaints there has finally been an official explanation on the BBC HD blog.

It is not good news for people who like HD picture quality

Quote from Andy Quested - he is in charge of picture quality " I have said in the BBC
blog we need to reduce the unsustainable bit rates for HD transmission
or it will have no future or will only be available to those willing to
pay for and able to get super premium services. We are continuing to
work on the setting for the new coders and the pictures are overall
better than before.

The Proms last Saturday, Tom Jones and
Gardener's World were all stunning. The racking in the football
highlighted a mix/fade issue that has always been there but got worse
but that is being given the highest priority.

We are also
working on noise reduction to help where the original material is noisy
- remember I have the advantage of being able to look at the master
tapes as well as the transmitted signal so know when it's a coder issue
or a noise issue.

I will continue to post and discuss PQ issues
with everyone who has a reasonable point of view and understands that
the BBC is there for all "

You can reply or comment on this here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/11/bbc_hd_picture_quality_and_dol.html

 

[Sorreltiger]

As mentioned in the blog, during the World Athletics Championships it will be possible to make a direct comparison between BBC HD and Eurosport HD. I believe that Eurosport has one of the highest bitrates. I had a quick look this morning and thought that the BBC picture was, if anything, better. Other opinions would be welcomed!