Back to vinyl or better go to streaming?

peterpan

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I find the sound of cd's not good. See also here: http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/index.php?search_artist=nightwish&search_album=passion+play

Vinyl sounds better! But i have no turntable and LP's. What is wise; buy a turntable and search for LP's or go to straming and hope for hi-res?
 

CnoEvil

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IMO. Something like:

Linn Sneaky DS + Electrcompaniet ECI-3 + Kef R300s / LS50s / R500s

....should make listening enjoyable.
 

peterpan

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CnoEvil said:
IMO. Something like:

Linn Sneaky DS + Electrcompaniet ECI-3 + Kef R300s / LS50s / R500s

....should make listening enjoyable.

The Electrcompaniet ECI-3 is expensive here in the Netherlands (2600,-- Euro). Linn also. I know; Linn has the name to be the best in streaming.

The digital NAD C390 cost 2500,-- Euro. But don't know how it sounds.
 

CnoEvil

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peterpan said:
CnoEvil said:
IMO. Something like:

Linn Sneaky DS + Electrcompaniet ECI-3 + Kef R300s / LS50s / R500s

....should make listening enjoyable.

The Electrcompaniet ECI-3 is expensive here in the Netherlands (2600,-- Euro). Linn also. I know; Linn has the name to be the best in streaming.

The digital NAD C390 cost 2500,-- Euro. But don't know how it sounds.

Electro also have the PI-1, and the ECI-3 can sometimes be found ex-dem.

Here is an example of a used Primare i30 (another possibility): http://www.kronosav.com/sale/amplifiers/primare-i30-integrated-amp-balanced-inputs-used.html

Here is what WHF had to say: http://www.whathifi.com/review/primare-i30
 

stevebrock

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Hi-Res is no guarantee to solve your issue!

I too learnt about the loudness wars (DR Database) - I went for a good Vinyl front end and have never looked back!

I love Vinyl, IMHO it gives me the best experience musically over CD
 

drummerman

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I agree with Steve that (good) vinyl is lovely.

It will be more expensive and work intensive than anything else hifi as maintenance is an ongoing thing. Wear and tear.

Its also hugely rewarding as you know and I find it very satisfying to see the things spin.

I came late to the party and haven't regretted it but I still listen to downloads, cd's and spotify (even more now as I check potential record purchases)

regards
 

Overdose

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Depends on your vinyl.

Both CD and vinyl will usually use the same masters. Streaming is just a method of transmitting and playing digital files, of which CDs are but one source. The files that you are streaming are most likely to be from CD or CD masters anyway.
 
A

Anonymous

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Have you got an old laptop or netbook, if you have use this connected to a DAC and get a

turntable as well. I use an old netbook with 250gb HD and HRT Streamer 2 this also streams from a WD NAS (the netbook)

Use monkey media and get gapless playback also internet radio Amazon and spotify etc.

I do love the vinyl sound and the netbook gives me everything else. My CD very rarely gets used.
 

andyjm

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Overdose said:
Both CD and vinyl will usually use the same masters.

Err, no.

The cutting master for a vinyl LP will undergo significant mangling before the cutter touches the blank. The LF will be mixed to mono, then 'equalisation' will be applied (a crude form of noise control and LF amplitude reduction). Large amplitude LF would cause the stylus to jump out of the groove, so it is reduced on recording and boosted on playback. HF is boosted on recording and reduced on playback to limit the crackles and pops.

A CD master will have a hard cuttof at 20KHz to avoid aliasing in the sample process, which is not required for vinyl.

So, the two masters may have had the same parent, but the masters used to make CDs and LPs will be very different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalisation
 

busb

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andyjm said:
Overdose said:
Both CD and vinyl will usually use the same masters.

Err, no.

The cutting master for a vinyl LP will undergo significant mangling before the cutter touches the blank. The LF will be mixed to mono, then 'equalisation' will be applied (a crude form of noise control and LF amplitude reduction). Large amplitude LF would cause the stylus to jump out of the groove, so it is reduced on recording and boosted on playback. HF is boosted on recording and reduced on playback to limit the crackles and pops.

A CD master will have a hard cuttof at 20KHz to avoid aliasing in the sample process, which is not required for vinyl.

So, the two masters may have had the same parent, but the masters used to make CDs and LPs will be very different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalisation

Surely that's equalisation not mastering both have their own requirements. RIAA equalisation is a fixed quantity (with minor variations how it's implemented in phono stages). I was quite relieved to see the back of vinyl - no more warped, noisy, off-centre records. People go on about the "analogue sound" - romantic nonsense in many repects. Doesn't mean you can't get decent sound from vinyl - I've heard great sound but better? Not IMO. Same applies to valve stuff.
 

busb

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peterpan said:
I find the sound of cd's not good. See also here: http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/index.php?search_artist=nightwish&search_album=passion+play

Vinyl sounds better! But i have no turntable and LP's. What is wise; buy a turntable and search for LP's or go to straming and hope for hi-res?

If you don't already have a record collection - I'd go the download route. IMO, "Hi res" is irrelevant - what's the point of having badly mastered music in hi res? What we need is decent recordings without bad amplitude distortion brought about my excessive compression. We need a recording industry to be not run by f-wits. I prefer the sound of a well-recorded MP3 over a poor hi res version anyday!
 

andyjm

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busb said:
andyjm said:
Overdose said:
Both CD and vinyl will usually use the same masters.

Err, no.

The cutting master for a vinyl LP will undergo significant mangling before the cutter touches the blank. The LF will be mixed to mono, then 'equalisation' will be applied (a crude form of noise control and LF amplitude reduction). Large amplitude LF would cause the stylus to jump out of the groove, so it is reduced on recording and boosted on playback. HF is boosted on recording and reduced on playback to limit the crackles and pops.

A CD master will have a hard cuttof at 20KHz to avoid aliasing in the sample process, which is not required for vinyl.

So, the two masters may have had the same parent, but the masters used to make CDs and LPs will be very different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalisation

Surely that's equalisation not mastering both have their own requirements. RIAA equalisation is a fixed quantity (with minor variations how it's implemented in phono stages). I was quite relieved to see the back of vinyl - no more warped, noisy, off-centre records. People go on about the "analogue sound" - romantic nonsense in many repects. Doesn't mean you can't get decent sound from vinyl - I've heard great sound but better? Not IMO. Same applies to valve stuff.

I would say mixing LF to mono is more than just equalisation.

My point was the the tape (or file I guess these days) used to drive the cutter is not the same tape (or file) used to produce the CD - even if the master that left the mixing desk used as the source was the same. It is arguable whether the differences between the two 'cutting' masters are audible or not after de emphasis, but they are certainly very different. Unlike CDs and streamed files which are bit-identical, it is not possible to do a direct comparison between the masters for CD and vinyl.

Perhaps much of the 'vinyl sound' comes from the pre emphasis / de emphasis process....
 
T

the record spot

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peterpan said:
I find the sound of cd's not good. See also here: http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/index.php?search_artist=nightwish&search_album=passion+play

Vinyl sounds better! But i have no turntable and LP's. What is wise; buy a turntable and search for LP's or go to straming and hope for hi-res?

What, every CD you have heard doesn't sound good? Or the ones you have aren't well mastered? The former I don't believe, the latter I can.
 

andyjm

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BigH said:
Vinyl is not always better vinyl will rarely get above 14 DR but many cds are higher than that, just look at all the top DR ones and they are nearly all cds or digital downloads: http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/index.php?sort=dr&order=desc

I agree the recent cd releases are poor.

CDs are technically superior to vinyl in almost all respects (LPs can manage a wider frequency range than CDs - well above 20KHz, not that anyone can hear it).

The tragedy is that the additional capabilities of CDs are generally wasted in all but classical recordings. Now that downloads are available, I have a faint hope that two versions of recordings will be made available - the compressed iPod version and a version that hasn't been through the compressor for the hifi enthusiast. I am not sure it will be worth the record companies time to do it though.
 

BigH

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andyjm said:
BigH said:
Vinyl is not always better vinyl will rarely get above 14 DR but many cds are higher than that, just look at all the top DR ones and they are nearly all cds or digital downloads: http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/index.php?sort=dr&order=desc

I agree the recent cd releases are poor.

CDs are technically superior to vinyl in almost all respects (LPs can manage a wider frequency range than CDs - well above 20KHz, not that anyone can hear it).

The tragedy is that the additional capabilities of CDs are generally wasted in all but classical recordings. Now that downloads are available, I have a faint hope that two versions of recordings will be made available - the compressed iPod version and a version that hasn't been through the compressor for the hifi enthusiast. I am not sure it will be worth the record companies time to do it though.

As most people can't hear above 15Khz I don't see much point, cds have a wider DR than vinyl. Hopefully you will be right, there have been some things like Studio Masters becoming available and iplay are supposed to be doing something? Neil Young has also been pushing high res. The new BD audio is meant to be largerly uncompressed, so there is hope yet.
 

stevebrock

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CDs are technically superior to vinyl in almost all respects (LPs can manage a wider frequency range than CDs - well above 20KHz, not that anyone can hear it).

+1

So why do people prefer the sound of vinyl - is it poor mastering of the CD
 

cheeseboy

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stevebrock said:
+1

So why do people prefer the sound of vinyl - is it poor mastering of the CD

ironically I think it's actually the lack of clarity in vinyl people tend to like, or at least all that I speak to when they refer to the "warmth" (ie distortion) of vinyl.
 

BigH

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stevebrock said:
CDs are technically superior to vinyl in almost all respects (LPs can manage a wider frequency range than CDs - well above 20KHz, not that anyone can hear it).

+1

So why do people prefer the sound of vinyl - is it poor mastering of the CD

Generally in the last 10 years or so they have mastered cds for loudness, which sell better. Some music seems to be better on vinyl such as Led Zeppelin. Thats not to say all vinyl is fine I know some record companies have had problems with certain albums, one of Shelby Lynne's albums was so bad they had to recut it again and generally that record company is not great with vinyl. I have vinyl and had problems with scratches and warping, some tracks even from new were not great, I have not bought any vinyl lately so I don't know if there are still quality issues. If you buy well mastered cds then I don't find there is a problem but its worth researching which versions are the best, not all the recent ones are bad, check Bob Dylan 2004 ones and Miles Davis Legacy Editions, Pink Floyd is more debatable and watch out what they have done to the Doors albums.

In a recent demo I had some time spare so I got them to play some vinyl, it was Joan Armatrading, to be honest even with the pops and clicks I was not that impressed with the sound, it was not that warm but seemed to lack clarity.
 

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