B&W 685 S2s or KEF Q300s?

[lc155]

Hi fellas,

Been using KEF Q300s for most of the year, and whilst they've been pretty stellar (running them on a NAD D3020, with my PC feeding the audio, so I'm using them nearfield, opposite ends of the desk on stands, toed in towards me) I always felt like perhaps the highs were a bit much for me on this speaker - I'd routinely feel tired after listening to them all day (which I do a lot at the PC!).

I remember hearing how the 685s were the best regarded bookshelf for that price range, until the Q300 came along and stole the crown. Now that the 685 S2 is out, has anyone been able to make comparisons? Has the 685 retaken the crown?

I'm unable to demo myself, and googling for comparisons has fallen up short. Seems lke nobody has tried to test this combo.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Hi fellas,

Been using KEF Q300s for most of the year, and whilst they've been pretty stellar (running them on a NAD D3020, with my PC feeding the audio, so I'm using them nearfield, opposite ends of the desk on stands, toed in towards me) I always felt like perhaps the highs were a bit much for me on this speaker - I'd routinely feel tired after listening to them all day (which I do a lot at the PC!).

I remember hearing how the 685s were the best regarded bookshelf for that price range, until the Q300 came along and stole the crown. Now that the 685 S2 is out, has anyone been able to make comparisons? Has the 685 retaken the crown?

I'm unable to demo myself, and googling for comparisons has fallen up short. Seems lke nobody has tried to test this combo.

But i have compared kef q and b&w on same day same amp etc and yes your right as they sounded a lot duller but thats cause i was not used to the sound so maybe given more time with them they may be better. I personally prefered the kefs but never listened near field all day lol

 

[lc155]

So you're saying the 685 S2 sounded a lot duller, but probably because you weren't used to the sound, or do you meant the Q300s?

Just wondering since you said in the end you preferred the Q300s haha.

 

[Andrewjvt]

So you're saying the 685 S2 sounded a lot duller, but probably because you weren't used to the sound, or do you meant the Q300s?

Just wondering since you said in the end you preferred the Q300s haha.

No the b&w sounded less bright and duller ( i dont mean this in a bad way) its just a different tone) the bws have other abilities and i never listened for long enough to understand them just dismissed them.

That was the s1 not s2 mind you.

 

[lc155]

Ah yeah, that's the problem. There's a ton of people who have compared the S1 and Q300s, and the Q300s are undoubtedly better.

However, the S2 is obviously a different beast, so the old comparisons aren't valid anymore. What HiFi iirc have the 685 S2 at the new best buy in that price bracket.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Ah yeah, that's the problem. There's a ton of people who have compared the S1 and Q300s, and the Q300s are undoubtedly better.

However, the S2 is obviously a different beast, so the old comparisons aren't valid anymore. What HiFi iirc have the 685 S2 at the new best buy in that price bracket.

I cant say but id be very supprised if they were not similar though. I mean its not like a complete re-design but im just guessing. Let us know what you find. I also would not go blindly on the gospel truth from what hifi reviews.

Id take hifi choice reviews slightly more serious as they do group blind testing and level matched etc.

Although im not dissing what hifi reviews altogether as some ive read have been spot on but you need to listen to yourself as its only one mans opinion. My bright could be your sweet.

Be interesting to hear your review once youve compared them

 

[NS496]

I often use exactly that setup for my computer listening...

the D3020 is brilliant for computer audio, although the 685 s2's are not ideal 'near field' speakers it works well enough for me. Ideally they need a bit of space and power behind them. Personally I would NOT change your KEF for the 685's... Perhaps a sideway move ar best... To a less than ideal speaker for the role you want

If it was me, I would rather 'downgrade' (but more appropriate for sitting close) and get a smaller speakers: maybe 686 or 2020i's or zensor 1's and maybe add a sub for computer audio... The forum is also very fond of active speakers, but since you already have a very good amp, I wouldn't bother with them now... Or upgrade properly to LS50 or CM1 perhaps

Have you tried the equalizer on your computer? I know purists do't like an equalizer, but you find it useful to tone down the brightness a bit? Much cheaper than buying new speakers! I often use itunes equalizer when I use a cheap bluetooth speaker dock away from my desk.

 

[lc155]

Don't know if I could downgrade now, to be honest. I know many don't seem to appreciate using them as nearfields, but I've never had a problem - they're on stands at either end of my large desk and so are properly positioned, with plenty of space around them to breathe. Quite a bit better than your average 'plunk em on the desk and the jobs done' nearfield use, I'd say.

Why would you reckon they're less than ideal compared to the KEFs, out of curiosity?

 

[Reijer]

Hi IC55

Downgrading is subjactive, depending on your requierments, not just on the price or the rating.

I've heard the Q300, the S1 and the S2 in the same audition, on the same amp. I found the Q300 better than the S1, but the S2 is better than the Q300 (to my ears...). Altought the Q300 is a great speaker for the money, the S2 gave a better performance to my ears. The dullness of the S1 (and S2) some people mentioned, can be the difference between KEF, which are great for vocals, and B&W, which are more neutral and have a little more bass.

All of this is my humble opinion based on my ears, no science.....

 

[lc155]

Good to hear, and not surprising that the S2 is overall better, since it uses the stepped down tweeter from the higher models and updated internal crossovers.

I'm not surprised that the KEF feels more airy and open, whilst the S2s would have more 'meat' to it, so to speak. To me, it always just felt like the KEF was missing 'something'. Saying it sounded flat would probably be too simplified of a description - it just didn't seem to appeal for all day long listening (I attribute that to the treble perhaps being fatiguing for long usage, really. I had a similar issue with my DT880s a few years back where they'd put me right to sleep after a while - after I changed to HD650s which have a well known warmth to their mids, the problem disappeared, haha).

 

[matthewpiano]

The Q300s aren't ideal as near-field monitors. The wide dispersion of their large Uni-Q driver works brilliantly in a more conventional listening set-up, but get too close and it all gets overwhelming and tiring.

 

[lc155]

Interesting to note, although I have sat way back when listening as well and positioning them for that. I'll be honest and say I couldn't hear that much of a difference.

However, definitely a possibility that near field KEFs were what was tiring me, never listened to music all day from the other position as that's where my bed is.

I am trying out the 685 S2s now, and my first impressions are something like:
If we were to liken it to headphones, then yes, the Q300s would be like DT880s with their excelling performance in highs , and the 685 S2s closer to HD650s with the mids (just my experience with headphones I've used myself). The S2s have more meat on the bone for sure, but they don't sound as open and spacious, or airy. The sweet spot is also a lot smaller, but this is a given with the tweeter setup. Not really an issue if you know how to toe in (Q300s if you like dancing around your room I guess?). That being said, I find I'm getting a lot better direction from the S2s, and they seem to be filling the room better than the Q300s ever did. I tested out positioning whilst I played some games (not the best way but it works!) and I found with the Q300s I did have some trouble sometimes with being able to figure out where some things were coming from, but didn't have this problem with the S2s in the slightest. Interesting. (Using the S2s for gaming was also more satisfying due to the deeper and better bass, just to note). So, a first impression summed up would be something like: - Better bass for sure- Less sweet spot, and doesn't come from 'everywhere' like the Q300s do- Whilst it has less soundstage due to not being as open and airy, direction/positioning seems better- Fills the room more than the Q300s did- More of an 'impact', moe meaty flavour. Q300s are more airy, open, and quite bright in comparison, but to me, can sound 'flat'. Bit of an oversimplification, but describing audio is hard. If you were to ask me in person I'd say 'it goes wham, bam, zing, and then my heart goes doki doki'

 

[Andrewjvt]

Interesting to note, although I have sat way back when listening as well and positioning them for that. I'll be honest and say I couldn't hear that much of a difference.

However, definitely a possibility that near field KEFs were what was tiring me, never listened to music all day from the other position as that's where my bed is.

I am trying out the 685 S2s now, and my first impressions are something like:

If we were to liken it to headphones, then yes, the Q300s would be like DT880s with their excelling performance in highs , and the 685 S2s closer to HD650s with the mids (just my experience with headphones I've used myself). The S2s have more meat on the bone for sure, but they don't sound as open and spacious, or airy. The sweet spot is also a lot smaller, but this is a given with the tweeter setup. Not really an issue if you know how to toe in (Q300s if you like dancing around your room I guess?).
 
 
That being said, I find I'm getting a lot better direction from the S2s, and they seem to be filling the room better than the Q300s ever did. I tested out positioning whilst I played some games (not the best way but it works!) and I found with the Q300s I did have some trouble sometimes with being able to figure out where some things were coming from, but didn't have this problem with the S2s in the slightest. Interesting. (Using the S2s for gaming was also more satisfying due to the deeper and better bass, just to note).
 
So, a first impression summed up would be something like:
 
- Better bass for sure
- Less sweet spot, and doesn't come from 'everywhere' like the Q300s do
- Whilst it has less soundstage due to not being as open and airy, direction/positioning seems better
- Fills the room more than the Q300s did
- More of an 'impact', moe meaty flavour.
 
Q300s are more airy, open, and quite bright in comparison, but to me, can sound 'flat'. Bit of an oversimplification, but describing audio is hard. If you were to ask me in person I'd say 'it goes wham, bam, zing, and then my heart goes doki doki'

But do you favour the s2s over the q300s?

Are the s2s keepers for you?

 

[lc155]

I honestly don't know yet! I'm going to use the S2s over the weekend, then jump back on the KEFs and see what I think again once they've settled in a bit more and loosened up.

I'm very indescisive so even when a first impression change is different/better, I'll still overthink things. For that reason, the KEFs are sitting on top of a box next to me, waiting to be plugged in again and I'll see how I feel about them.

One small first world problem: With my KEFs toed in, the speakers covered my stand top plate perfectly due to them being quite wide for bookshevles. With my B&Ws, they're thinner so some of the plate shows at the sides, bah! If I want to toe in the entire speaker stand inlcuding at the base, it means I'd have to get a new desk as I have those legs that wouldn't let anything fit under them. Boo!

 

[lc155]

Okay, after some more listening here is my thoughts thus far:
What I find so far is going back to my Q300s I find them very... 'tinny' and less satisfying compared to the 685s. The S2s really fill the room and have a 'punch' and meat on the bone to them, without losing any clarity or becoming muddled. I find the bass much improved on the S2 as well. The nearfield usage of the 685s might be better as well, as the UniQ disperses in a wide range which would be better for for away listening, but this is just my opinion. At first with the S2s I felt 'closed in' compared to the open airyness of the Q300s - although positioning on the 685s was a LOT better for the reduced perceived soundstage. I had difficulty on the Q300s in some areas (especially gaming). However, now more used to them, I switched back to the Q300s and it feels... I don't know, lifeless. The 'energy' I get from the S2s just isn't there. It doesn't even feel as open and airy anymore, probably because I have a new perspective on it all. Hell, the separation on the instruments is better on the S2s as well, even though the Q300s are supposed to excel in orchestrals. I brought my mother in and had her listen to both as well (as she wouldn't have any bias) and without me giving my opinions she said pretty much the same as well, wasn't impressed at all with the Q300s after hearing the S2s. That's not to say the Q300s is bad at all, just when compared to a newer speaker with newer technology, it definitely falls behind. So far, it definitely seems like the S2s are a keeper!