This is an interesting thread. I asked exactly the same sort of video-related question in this section a couple of weeks ago and it vanished without warning. I have just found out today that it was moved to the 'Free THX Optimizer Glasses!' Thread in the 'About The Mag' section. If I posted it in the wrong section I'm really sorry but it would be helpful if the Forum moderators could just advise the OP when they move it... I was convinced my query had been deleted.
Anyway, I was after exactly the same sort of detail about video performance as JAYDubYaa. As I said in my original post video performance is at least as important to me as audio performance. The group test that's being referred to gave no indication as to the relative video capabilities of the receivers.... which is why I originally posted my query.
Andy - I presume from your interest in this thread that you wrote the av receiver review - I've got to say that your reply makes me wonder about exactly how detailed your assessment of these products video capability was. You say that you advise against upscaling an HDMI signal via the receiver. I'm sorry Andy but that's just wrong. Did you actually try doing that?
Since my original post I have purchased an Onkyo TX-NR876 precisely because it does such an amazing job upscaling the SD signal from Sky Digital. Looking at the output raw and upscaled there's simply no comparison... the upscaled video signal from the Onkyo is almost HD quality when it comes to the absence of picture distortions (and I feel qualified to say this because I have a Sky+ HD STB and so can compare the two directly). Even my girlrfiend can see the difference... and she's no whathi-fi reviewer!
As for all the upscaling results from the receivers tested 'being similar', sorry, but thats way wrong. The ISF Day/Night/custom calibration options on the Onkyo TX-NR876 let you tweak the balance of incoming video signals to an extent that's simply impossible on the other models that were in that group test.
The Denon that was tested, for instance, offers absolutely no video tweaking controls at all... you can switch on the i/p scaler and switch it off, set the output resolution, choose progressive mode and set the aspect ratio. The Onkyo's ISF calibration controls allow you alter gamma, individual RGB levels and so on. It's a masterclass in how to get video performance right on, as long as you spend a bit of time at it. Is that mentioned anywhere in the review in whathifi? I didn't see it.
Your advise about not recommending that Sky HD be upscaled through the receiver and be sent direct to the display is incorrect. Virtually every receiver around - including my Onkyo - can be set to pass through HD signals untouched when they are detected. In any case Sky HD signals still visibly benefit from being upconverted through the Onkyo - though they may not on the Denon and Sony that were tested - although to a lesser degree than the SD signals [which look blooming amazing upscaled and output via HDMI].
I think the reply that Clare Newsome gave to my original query [which I would have answered if I'd been able to keep travk of it] sums up the approach at Whathifi. This is an audio focussed magazine that counts 'sound per pound' as being the number one thing - nothing else matters as much to it. Video-related features on receivers come a poor second in its view which is why I suspect they get skated over in the reviews. Just saying video-related features were tested without giving any further detail of what the findings were is a bit of a cop-out in my view.
The Onkyo receivers are clearly not to the taste of Andy, Clare and their colleagues sonically so that's it... game over. Reading between the lines it seem that an assumption is made that there's no point in looking any further at the other selling points of the receivers because the sound isn't -class-leading'. I think that does the manufacturers a huge injustice...
I love my Onkyo's sound for exactly the reasons that Whathifi hate it... it makes movies come alive in a way that I've never heard from my fuzzy old Yamaha 863SE (stupidly bought unheard after a Whathi-fi recommendation!). The sound quality aspect is a bit dubious too. My Onkyo sounded a bit balls-out, the way the review described it for about two or three weeks, being used for 3 to 4 hours every day, before it smoothed out and became bolshy and really sweet in the high frequencies... how long did you run the review receiver for?
At the end of the day it's all down to what's important to the buyer but I can now say that whathi-fi's approach definitely doesn't reflect my personal priorities (or I guess jaydubyaa's). Maybe the best thing is to also consult other sources and get other opinions if you're interested in any other exspect sound quality.
On another subject can I ask why whathi-fi never prints corrections in the magazine? Every other reputable magazine prints corrections in the isue after they are spotted but your magazine never seems to.
The evidence on this forum sems to be that mistakes ceratinly are made but there seems to be a keenness to bury any mention of them. Another forum member pointed out on another thread that the AV receiver review had wrongly stated that both the Denon and yahama had internet connectivity and that the Denon's price was £100 out. I can't recall who answered the point but whoever it was just stated that the online specs and review had been corrected. I've seen that done a few times. The reply also said that whathifi was aware that the denon was available for £600 (i think) online when the review was being carried out.
Two points... how can you stand by your ratings for all these products if you've got basic facts like these wrong? I think your readers would think more highly of the magazine if it admitted such booboos in print in the actual magazine - changing stuff online only is another editorial cop-out.
The other point, or question, is exactly what price are you using to base your verdicts on? Is it the list price, is it the best online price, what? Taking the example above so you knew that this denon was available for £600 online even though the list price was much higher... how did that affect your rating of the denon? Did you also find out what the yamaha and onkyo were available for online? What if they'd been cheaper... would you have given them a better rating?
I hope the above doesn't sound too bolshy but I'm not convinced that whathi-fi is helping those for whom video matters as much as sound quality. Daresay I'll be told to sling my hook but as somebody who used to buy issues quite regularly I reckon I've earned and paid for the right to put my points across.
Thoughts All?
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