Atlas(t) The End Is In Sight - Possibly

[ESP2009]

I swore to myself that I wouldn't fall into the cable upgrade trap. I read the various posts. I understood the diminishing returns aspect. I even bought some very good sub-£30 cables (SHB, VdH The Name, VdH d102, and Chord Crimson).

But, as the wounded bank robbery says at the beginning of Dirty Harry, as Harry looms over him with Magnum in hand (ice cream anyone?): "I gots ta know!" So, I picked up the Ecosse Nu Diva off Fleabay - I expected something special from a cable with an RRP in excess of £120 but was disappointed - back onto Fleabay with it. The Merlin Chopin Mk3 pair I purchased, brand new, for under £75 was much better. Yes, definitely worth keeping - "just need a second pair for connection to the second amp and I'm sorted", or so I thought.

That was until someone, who will remain nameless, posted a report that Weymouth Hi-Fi are holding a Spring sale of Atlas cables (half price and better, and with free P&P - bargainous!) I bought some. I bought five. They are on approval for approx two weeks. As I type, I am just in the second week of sporadic listening and fiddling.

I must admit that, at the reduced price of £74 a pair (down from £165), the Atlas Navigators don't seem to outshine the Merlin Chopin Mk3 and SHB Avatars thus far. I think that maybe, just maybe, they are an improvement over the Chopin Mk3 and Mk2 combination I had used recently on my two amps. But taking the Mk2 out and substituting the Avatar appeared to level the playing field.

Leaving the Titan AllCu aside for the moment, I compared the Atlas Opus against the Atlas Compass coax that had already favourably improved my system in tandem with the DACMagic. The Opus is £79, down from £190, whilst the Compass was £85-ish (though purchased for less). Worth the money? Well, after a couple of sessions swapping between the two (a pain to do), I realised I was hearing a definite difference. Certainly not a night-and-day contrast, but something extra nonetheless. The Opus appears to let more information through: more power, more detail, more music. In particular, I became aware that the double bass on track three of ‘My One And Only Thrill' is just that. It's not a bass guitar or some such; the unique and characteristic sound of the instrument is now clearer. Yes, I was beginning to approve of the Opus - a ‘keeper', then. The Compass gets moved to duty between the Sony BDP and the DACMagic.

Which gets us back to Chopin vs Navigator vs Titan - which is the I/C for me? To be honest, I have not had time to do a serious comparison over an evening or two, although this should be rectified next Wednesday & Thursday. However, from the couple of brief opportunities afforded so far, it seems that the Navigators are the most likely candidates for categorisation as ‘you are The Weakest Link - goodbye!' As I say above, they don't appear to give me anything I haven't got already (which, I emphasise, is not to say they are a bad product, just no move forward). But the Titans? Ah, now there's a different story. At £110 a pair, down from almost £300, these ain't cheap. But coupled with the Opus coaxial they coax even more from the system.

So, by Friday of next week I hope to be in a position to make a final decision and report back. First indications are that the Titans will be staying and I will stop all this mucking about with I/Cs, but I need to check a few more styles of music at various volumes between times.

 

[Anonymous]

sounds like you got some good deals there!

and its always interesting reading a cable sceptic getting converted (or vice versa)

p.s. is that your ferret?

 

[ESP2009]

fast eddie:sounds like you got some good deals there! and its always interesting reading a cable sceptic getting converted (or vice versa) p.s. is that your ferret?

I hope that I can never have been described as a sceptic - I am quite gullible, really! Sorry, I meant open-minded.

I feel it might be sad to admit it, but I would cheerfully play with cable combinations 'til the cows come home - it really intrigues me the way they do actually influence the sound of your system. I would love to try all of them, but I have to stop sometime (before I become a cable-spotter).

PS. Yes, that is one of our ferrets. We have four permanent residents, all girls - they make life 'interesting'.

 

[Anonymous]

My girlfriend keeps trying to convince me a ferret is a good Idea!

 

[idc]

I always thought that ferret was a stuffed toy! So it is real! I would love a ferret, but can you house train them, let them out safely without them running away and would they get on with a cat and small child?

 

[ESP2009]

I think this will need to be moved to the 'off-topic' area. Give me a while and I will put something in there...

 

[Anonymous]

So after my cable dilemma I took the plunge and got the Atlas Titan all Cu.

This cable is AMAZING!!! and I only got it yesterday, so no 74hour burn-in time yet. I replaced a QED cable between my NAD cd and NAD amp (C541/C350) and it's as if the Titan scraped mud off my sound. It is so clear and violins become distinct. I really wanted to be a cable sceptic but this has me in that respect. My 2D sound-staging felt as if it has expanded into a 3D. My orchestras now have depth!!!!

If this is placebo then my mind is pretty amazing, otherwise full credit to this £100 titan which has added immeasurable quality to my system and listening enjoyment.

ESP2009, thank you for giving me the courage to go out and commit to a cable I would never have bought otherwise. (I did read other reviews etc... but you tipped the balance)

Cheers!!!

PS: finish your review! You've had that extra week and I want to hear another convert!

 

[ESP2009]

I will endeavour to comply - playtime starts this evening.

 

[ESP2009]

Ironic isn't it? Just as the Best Buy chain is set to hit the Merry Hell shopping centre within a stone's throw of my home, I find myself sitting back and thinking "job done!"

This evening a spent an enjoyable time swapping speaker cables into and out of the newly acquired Marantz PM66SE KI Signature. As mentioned in my other recent thread on the subject, the single Marantz appears to at least match the performance of the two Audiolabs (8000S) I was using to drive the Spendors with bi-wired cables. So, I decided to concentrate on standard speaker cable run comparisons before I settle the Marantz into its proper position and swap the Audiolabs out.

Sitting atop my newly made custom 'AmperStand' (Ha, beat that, idc!) the Marantz amp was connected: Atlas Titan All Cu > DACMagic > Atlas Opus coaxial > Marantz CD63 MkII KI Signature. It was then a choice of four speaker cables, all actually bi-wire, but so what? Just keep the extra two connectors out of the way and all's well.

First up was the original bi-wire I purchased to go with the TDL RTL2s back in the '90s: Cabletalk Talk 4. In all honesty, I wasn't expecting much (I don't really know why), but found the sound clear, crisp, snappy and detailed. The soundstage was nicely centred and the vocals and instruments were separated well enough. The overall impression was one of a nice balance and some degree of presence. The bass seemed quite firm and the mid-range warm without being woolly. Not at all bad.

Next came the Van den Hul Teatrack Hybrid. As with other aspects of the system, it is only when you begin to compare components that you begin to realise what you were missing when you believed you were reasonably happy. The VDH yielded a touch more detail, life and even realism that I hadn't really thought of as being absent with the Talk 4. The bass became weightier and fuller, extending to give the mid-range a warmer and more intimate air. At first I was convinced that the cable was causing an unwelcome shift of the soundstage away to right of centre (now there's a topical theme!) However, moving back a few feet, I realised that somehow the VDH was having the effect of projecting the 'sweet spot' further away - unexpected.

I moved on: out came the QED Silver Anniversary XT runs. Immediately there was a greater sense of space and clarity. The bass became that bit more solid but maybe not as well-defined as I would have expected (perhaps a bit more experimentation with speaker positioning needed?) But the soundstage was nicely centred and still that extra distance from the kit. There was less in the way of overall warmth - more emphasis on a clean, detailed sound with a sensible balance. Overall, the QED cables appear to build on and improve the previous performances.

Finally, I plugged in the flimsiest and cheapest looking cables: unjacketed Chord Odyssey 2. I actually have two sets: one with and one without - the unjacketed version slides under the carpet in front of the living room door easily without impeding the door! The Odyssey just seems to simply let more of everything through. It refines the three previous contenders and provides a 3D presence that the others cannot match. So, that's settled - the Odyssey stays installed.

Of course, kudos has to go to the whole hi-fi ensemble, but I must say that only the addition of the heavily discounted Atlas products has breathed that extra life into the system. They seem to have lifted a veil, indeed, a curtain that previously had stifled the sonic capability of the main components.

So, when all is said and done, is it worth the mucking about and the expenditure? I would be lying if I were to claim a resounding "YES!" Despite the frank admission that it will be rare that I can enjoy my music at the volumes that bring out the best in both system and the music it plays, and therefore a waste to spend large amounts on even better kit, I have not exactly been tight on the old purse strings. I have been buying and selling on Fleabay fit to bust for about a year. If I am very lucky, I may get close to covering a good portion of the cost. The laws of diminishing returns have, to my mind, been proven. Beyond doubt I have improved my system and it has been fun to do so but it has not been a case of leaps and bounds.

As I said earlier with reference to the Cable Talk speaker cables being replaced with the VdH product: you don't always appreciate what you are missing until you get a chance to compare. But how far do you take it? How far to push the boundaries? Let's face it, at £110 for a 1 metre pair and £79 for 1m, the Atlas Titan All Cu and Atlas Opus interconnects were an absolute bargain: they opened up the sound in my system beautifully. However, the SHB I/Cs I had used previously are much, much cheaper and perform really well...such that it can be claimed the Atlas products have the edge - it's a good edge, but it is not a huge step. It is certainly not worth the claimed RRP of said Atlas products: approx £280 and £190 respectively! I would never have entertained such an outlay and many would think I'm mad to spend what I did, at the discounted price, for the gain in performance.

In my search for an improved performance from my hi-fi I spent a small fortune on separates, but I also defied the cable nay-sayers and spent time and money on trying out a range of interconnects and several speaker cables. It was fun. It was interesting. I would love to carry on experimenting. I am a believer. They do make a difference; maybe not on all systems or in all circumstances, but they can and do. The difference may not be jaw-dropping and it certainly may not always be cost-effective, but I believe it can have an impact. However, it is about time I stopped and listened to the music.

I bought the Titan and Opus. I bought them because I could and I was safe in the knowledge I could send them back if I wasn't convinced of their worth. They give me more music - a better sound at lower volumes or more power and insight to the music at higher volumes. There is greater zip and vigour - greater sparkle and detail. The bass doesn't boom or sound woolly. They have brought refinement. If I do upgrade the base components, I hope the Atlas cables will effortlessly take this in their stride and bring out the best in those new purchases.

The flip side is that they are not cheap. They are not a quantum leap forward. The SHB products, the Merlin Chopins, Van den Hul 'The Name' and also d102 Mk3 Hybrid I/Cs I tried were all very good and all displayed different characteristics that can enhance a system, providing a sound that is more than acceptable for well under £100. Yet, if you can afford that extra step and know when to stop, why not try out more expensive versions, particularly if at knock-down prices and/or on approval?

I am almost ready to call a halt to my own odyssey...for now. I believe I have the system that works for me and I can listen to with a significant degree of satisfaction, knowing that it would (probably) cost a good deal of money and effort to improve upon.

But that's in this breath...

After all, what's a guy to do when he has decided to take a rest from purchases? I could take a leaf out of the books of others and patrol the forum posts, sticking my oar in to see who bites.

And if I continue to read the forum posts I can almost certainly see myself being tempted by some bright spark's suggestion of something to try or buy that will bring some further improvement...

 

[stephennic]

Hi ESP2009,

I liked reading your review. I found the QED clean and detailed as well but felt it lacked warmth and that 3D soundstaging. I even felt the chord carnival silverscreen was more balanced tonally. The kimber 8tc I like as it has that 3d sounstageing and natural warmth especially in the mids.

Have you tried the chord chameleon silver plus, I found it easily superior to the vanden hul 102 III - more open and detailed, It probably not as good as your atlas ( 2-3 x price) though. I also use Nordost BH, a touch bright and lean and fast, but it is very open and detailed. Probably the best interconnect i tried is the siltech ( not sure of the model), I found its very open and detailed - can be a touch clinical on a bright sounding system though.

I see you have supra power leads have you compared it to any others?

Cheers

Steve.

 

[ESP2009]

stephennic:

Hi ESP2009,

I liked reading your review. I found the QED clean and detailed as well but felt it lacked warmth and that 3D soundstaging. I even felt the chord carnival silverscreen was more balanced tonally. The kimber 8tc I like as it has that 3d sounstageing and natural warmth especially in the mids.

Have you tried the chord chameleon silver plus, I found it easily superior to the vanden hul 102 III - more open and detailed, It probably not as good as your atlas ( 2-3 x price) though. I also use Nordost BH, a touch bright and lean and fast, but it is very open and detailed. Probably the best interconnect i tried is the siltech ( not sure of the model), I found its very open and detailed - can be a touch clinical on a bright sounding system though.

I see you have supra power leads have you compared it to any others?

Cheers

Steve.

Steve, I am glad you enjoyed the read - it did turn out to be quite an epic!

I was going to try out the Chord Carnivals at some point, but the Odysseys were getting such good feedback I decided to try them first. It's encouraging that your thoughts on the QED mirror mine. It just doesn't suit my system and taste right now.

No, I have never tried the Chameleon; it was an i/c I was going to audition when I could find it cheaply, but the 'round tuit' never turned up in time to prevent me swooping on the Atlas products. From what you say, maybe I should steer away from it anyway: some say the kit I have can sound bright - I can well believe it.

The Supras? Ah, now there we have an interesting situation. And this could lead us to a further area of investigation. I actually have the following currently in my possession: A.N.Other shielded power lead, a SHB power lead, a QED Qonduit, a RA Yello, and two Supras. But where to use? As of this moment I have just one item that can use any one of them - the Sony HDTV. If I recall correctly, the RA Yello is plugged into it. With the Audiolabs relegated, at least in the short term, I have nowhere to use the others (apart from the kettle!) In all honesty, I had intended to do a few comparisons between the various ones, but had not taken the time. The Supras seemed to do a good job of powering the Audiolabs but I just never got around to sitting down and doing any form of comparison. In actual fact, given a bit of spare time, now the Audiolabs are going to be moved out of the hi-fi setup, maybe I will play around with the power cables - they'll be far more accessible!

But anyway, this all leads (hee, hee) to another thread...

 

[Gerrardasnails]

ESP2009:stephennic:

Hi ESP2009,

I liked reading your review. I found the QED clean and detailed as well but felt it lacked warmth and that 3D soundstaging. I even felt the chord carnival silverscreen was more balanced tonally. The kimber 8tc I like as it has that 3d sounstageing and natural warmth especially in the mids.

Have you tried the chord chameleon silver plus, I found it easily superior to the vanden hul 102 III - more open and detailed, It probably not as good as your atlas ( 2-3 x price) though. I also use Nordost BH, a touch bright and lean and fast, but it is very open and detailed. Probably the best interconnect i tried is the siltech ( not sure of the model), I found its very open and detailed - can be a touch clinical on a bright sounding system though.

I see you have supra power leads have you compared it to any others?

Cheers

Steve.

Steve, I am glad you enjoyed the read - it did turn out to be quite an epic!

I was going to try out the Chord Carnivals at some point, but the Odysseys were getting such good feedback I decided to try them first. It's encouraging that your thoughts on the QED mirror mine. It just doesn't suit my system and taste right now.

No, I have never tried the Chameleon; it was an i/c I was going to audition when I could find it cheaply, but the 'round tuit' never turned up in time to prevent me swooping on the Atlas products. From what you say, maybe I should steer away from it anyway: some say the kit I have can sound bright - I can well believe it.

The Supras? Ah, now there we have an interesting situation. And this could lead us to a further area of investigation. I actually have the following currently in my possession: A.N.Other shielded power lead, a SHB power lead, a QED Qonduit, a RA Yello, and two Supras. But where to use? As of this moment I have just one item that can use any one of them - the Sony HDTV. If I recall correctly, the RA Yello is plugged into it. With the Audiolabs relegated, at least in the short term, I have nowhere to use the others (apart from the kettle!) In all honesty, I had intended to do a few comparisons between the various ones, but had not taken the time. The Supras seemed to do a good job of powering the Audiolabs but I just never got around to sitting down and doing any form of comparison. In actual fact, given a bit of spare time, now the Audiolabs are going to be moved out of the hi-fi setup, maybe I will play around with the power cables - they'll be far more accessible!

But anyway, this all leads (hee, hee) to another thread...

I'm not surprised you like the Odyssey - pretty unbeatable for the price in my opinion. Sorry to throw this in but the Clearer Audio Silver Line coaxial is pretty special. Mine replaced a top of the range QED coaxial (Silver Reference I think) and it was clearly better.

 

[stephennic]

Hi,

I found the Supras quite good especially the 2.5mm power chord. An interesting interconnect and speaker cable comparison in hifi news recently. They compared atlas, chord, QED, supra, vandenhul etc. One of the best tests Ive read in a mag for years. I would love to read a power chord comparison. I have tried about half dozen power chords and I found supra one of the better ones.

Happy listening

Cheers

Steve.

 

[ESP2009]

Gerrardasnails:I'm not surprised you like the Odyssey - pretty unbeatable for the price in my opinion. Sorry to throw this in but the Clearer Audio Silver Line coaxial is pretty special. Mine replaced a top of the range QED coaxial (Silver Reference I think) and it was clearly better.

Go away! I'm NOT listening!

 

[RCduck7]

ESP2009:

I am almost ready to call a halt to my own odyssey...for now. I believe I have the system that works for me and I can listen to with a significant degree of satisfaction, knowing that it would (probably) cost a good deal of money and effort to improve upon.

But that's in this breath...

After all, what's a guy to do when he has decided to take a rest from purchases? I could take a leaf out of the books of others and patrol the forum posts, sticking my oar in to see who bites.

And if I continue to read the forum posts I can almost certainly see myself being tempted by some bright spark's suggestion of something to try or buy that will bring some further improvement

Well, i had the Oddyssey in my main system and still have it for my 2nd (bedroom system), very good cable indeed.

Now i use the Anti Cable...

http://www.anticables.com/

It's solid copper wire without the traditional isolation, it has very good reviews, even compared to very expensive stuff (allthough i think it doesn't has to be expensive to be good). Cable shouldn't add anything in my opinion, it should be a mirror of the sound of your components, neutral.

Some firms like soundscapes for instance are very enthusiastic about this cable. This guy has a very good knowledge of hifi, also from a technical viewpoint and is master in room acoustics with several projects under his belt. It was that last peace of information, that made me try the anti cable. The link to the website about his writing of the anti cable is in dutch i'm afraid.

http://www.soundscapes.nu/anti.htm

I have been comparing the Chord Oddyssey to the Anti Cable to. The Chord and Anti Cables beats standard hardware store cables hands down obviously, both are easy to spot the differences.

I prefer the anti cable in my system over the Chord, not by a mile but i found the Anti Cable to have even better seperation and sounded a bit more natural to me while the Chord was a tad more agressive in the upper mids.

Beware that it is a stiff cable, so for some setups it might not be that practical when for example funiture is in the way when you go from the amp to the speakers. But if you would buy the speaker cable straight from the roll without terminations it's dirty cheap to.

Maybe a suggestion if you want to try a test again?

 

[ESP2009]

May I just say that we honest forum users are being stalked by evil servants of Lucifer?

 

[Anonymous]

Any impact on the ferrets?

 

[ESP2009]

Tarquinh:Any impact on the ferrets?

Since re-arranging everything this evening to replace the poor Audiolabs

with the Marantz

, I reckon that the ferrets are much livelier, dynamic and capable of a wider vocal range. They have more attack and bite than previously, although they are equally capable of being warm and laid-back.

Speaking of impact on the ferrets: if I catch the little blighter who has been chewing on the jacket of my Chord Odyssey we will have an extra draught excluder!

 

[RCduck7]

ESP2009:May I just say that we honest forum users are being stalked by evil servants of Lucifer?

Yep, i know people that are into hifi for years and can't hear (or won't admit) a difference between cheap standard speaker cable compared to a very good one for instance. I guess they are just not open to it. On the other hand there is a lot of air sold from some manufacturers or dealers that want to make a quik buck. Some of the very expensive stuff from some companies is really not worth when you see it in the flesh.

 

[scorpionro]

Very nice review. I've been thinking about trying out some new ICs and for the price, the Titans seem quite a good deal. My system is somewhat on the bright side ( it's the system in the signature ) and I was wondering if you think that the Titans would be a good IC for it ?

 

[ESP2009]

scorpionro:Very nice review. I've been thinking about trying out some new ICs and for the price, the Titans seem quite a good deal. My system is somewhat on the bright side ( it's the system in the signature ) and I was wondering if you think that the Titans would be a good IC for it ?

Thankyou. My experience of hi-fi components in general is somewhat limited. I certainly do not know the system separates in your signature and am, therefore, unsure about making any firm recommendations. I have read that the 685s can seem bright or even harsh with the 'wrong' components but have no experience of my own to substantiate or contradict that.

The SHB products do tend to major in high end clarity, which I did find from direct experience became too much for me after a while. They are a very cost effective solution, but possibly best for more laid-back systems that need some life breathed into them.

From my own experiences to-date with the Titans, I find them very transparent in allowing the power and clarity of the music to flow through. So, if the sources are known to be 'bright' I would suggest the end result will certainly be so.

My recommendation to you is find the Titans at a good price and then organise a sale or return trial period (Weymouth Hi-Fi gave me two weeks straight off). Whether or not you believe in a burn-in period, give the cables time to settle in as part of your system sound. Certainly make sure you get chance to listen for at least a few hours at a sitting to decide whether the sound grows tiring, boring or whatever. Personally, I am enjoying hearing the extra musical details that I never used to notice.

 

[scorpionro]

Thanks for the info. My system is not terribly bright, but at times ( and only on certain tracks ) it seems a tad too much, which is why I wanted to try a different IC ( preferably copper - I have some el cheapos, but they are really awful when compared to the SHB Avatar ).

You did mention that you have several mains cables and I was wondering if you got a chance to test these ?

 

[ESP2009]

scorpionro:

You did mention that you have several mains cables and I was wondering if you got a chance to test these ?

Ah, as I mentioned in another thread, since changing to the Marantz amp I have not been able to play around with the mains leads - unlike the Audiolabs, the Marantz does not have an IEC socket (its power cable is integral). However, prior to putting the Marantz into the system, I did try the QED Qonduit (too smooth and restrained), the SHB cable, a Russ Andrews Yello, and the Supra cable. All of these seemed to change/improve the overall sound a bit, but I have to say I don't think there was ever what you would call a 'step change' in quality. Maybe just a bit more 'oomph' in the various departments. I am reluctant to mess with the Marantz power at present.

 

[scorpionro]

Unfortunately they were out of 3.0m Titans and the stock will never be replenished, so I ended up with your other winner ... a 2.0m Atlas Opus. I wanted to ask you if your Opus also has "silverish" contacts ( they mention that the RCA plug is gold plated, but mine is definitely not gold colored - the RCA plug also differs a bit from the one showed in the pic from Atlas ( it ahs a red "marking" near the cable instead of the black on near the end of the plug that they show )

 

[ESP2009]

scorpionro:Unfortunately they were out of 3.0m Titans and the stock will never be replenished, so I ended up with your other winner ... a 2.0m Atlas Opus. I wanted to ask you if your Opus also has "silverish" contacts ( they mention that the RCA plug is gold plated, but mine is definitely not gold colored - the RCA plug also differs a bit from the one showed in the pic from Atlas ( it ahs a red "marking" near the cable instead of the black on near the end of the plug that they show )

A good question, and one I cannot answer just now. However, I am sure I will be ferreting around at the back of the system again before too long, so I will let you know.

Anyway, never mind that...did you hear any difference?