ATC or PMC (bookshelf) speakers - budget up to £1,600 - canvasing for opinions

[Sonic Dreamer]

Hi,

I'm looking for an interim solution for a pair of speakers. After a healthy amount of online reconnaissance I have pretty much narrowed down the vast field to ATC or PMC (I know both are highly regarded).

My budget is a maximum of £1,600 (excluding cable and stands) and I don't want to spend more as these speakers will be a stop-gap solution for about one year, but would be happy to spend less without significant depreciation of performance. I thought I may get more performance value £ for £ if I went for bookshelf speakers instead of floorstanders, i.e. electronic components to casing materials ratio. Typically, but not surprisingly I can’t find a dealer in the London/South East area who stocks both ATC and PMC for demo purposes. I can easily demo the PMCs, but not the ATCs, so need some valuable input from anyone who has had the opportunity to listen to both brands.

I mainly listen to rock music so the speakers need to have convincing bottom end capability; I sometimes listen to soul, blues and classical as well.

A key point to consider is my CD and Amp are Marantz Pearls, which have a warm, smooth sound.

Option 1

ATC - SCM 11 or PMC - DB1i.

Option 2

ATC - SCM 19 or PMC - TB2i Signature.

Option 3 (outsider)

B&W - 683 or Monitor Audio Silver RX6 and possibly Spendor A5 floorstanders (I have heard their A6s and Statements before)

Cheers,
SonicD

 

[plastic penguin]

Given how smooth the Pearl Lites are I would avoid PMC. Wonderful speakers, but a really smooth system needs a speaker edgy enough to do it justice.

Look at Neat, Dali, Ruark, MA Silver range, ProAc, Quad and possibly Leema Xones.

 

[Frank Harvey]

It may help to know what your plans are after the year is up - and whether whatever you purchase now might be useful for a system further down the line.

Both PMC and ATC have an extensive studio background, ensuring real experience and a quality of product that other manufacturers find hard to compete with. I'm sure whichever route you choose to take will bring you plenty of listening pleasure. While the Marantz amplifier is no slouch, the PMC options, being higher efficiency designs, will make more of the power that the Pearl has to offer. This results in a livelier performance than the ATC's, which is handy for lower level listening. The ATC's require a bit more driving, and produce a less livelier sound - 'deader', if you like - arguably more accurate. They will be a little easier on room placement thanks to their sealed cabinets.

If this only for a year, why not keep the costs down and put the extra cash towards whatever it is you have planned in a years time? A year will pass quite quickly, so depending on your future plans, I'd look at either the Monitor Audio RX2, KEF Q300, or even the ATC SCM7 and save even more cash.

I would ignore option 3.

 

[Sonic Dreamer]

It may help to know what your plans are after the year is up - and whether whatever you purchase now might be useful for a system further down the line.

Both PMC and ATC have an extensive studio background, ensuring real experience and a quality of product that other manufacturers find hard to compete with. I'm sure whichever route you choose to take will bring you plenty of listening pleasure. While the Marantz amplifier is no slouch, the PMC options, being higher efficiency designs, will make more of the power that the Pearl has to offer. This results in a livelier performance than the ATC's, which is handy for lower level listening. The ATC's require a bit more driving, and produce a less livelier sound - 'deader', if you like - arguably more accurate. They will be a little easier on room placement thanks to their sealed cabinets.

If this only for a year, why not keep the costs down and put the extra cash towards whatever it is you have planned in a years time? A year will pass quite quickly, so depending on your future plans, I'd look at either the Monitor Audio RX2, KEF Q300, or even the ATC SCM7 and save even more cash.

I would ignore option 3.

Thanks for the comprehensive reply David.

I'm going high-end long-term, probably ADAM Audio or ART, so these interim speakers I'd keep and perhaps use as a second mini system in another room (bedroom), rather than sell them on.

You slightly contracdict yourself, as in the first paragraph you say the ATC are a bit too neutral (dead) for the Marantz, then recommend the SCM7 in the second para, is this due to the price point? You guys stock the Neat Motive3, what is your take on that price notwithstanding?

 

[Sonic Dreamer]

Given how smooth the Pearl Lites are I would avoid PMC. Wonderful speakers, but a really smooth system needs a speaker edgy enough to do it justice.

Look at Neat, Dali, Ruark, MA Silver range, ProAc, Quad and possibly Leema Xones.

Thanks Pengers. Neat Motive3 and Dali Lektor2?

 

[Lo Fi]

If I were keeping them after a year to use in a second mini system, I would go for something thats easy to drive like the MA RX2 which would also provide a detailed dynamic sound with good bass response.

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

I have no experience of the ATC but of the PMC choices the TB2's would be my pick. They have quite a different sound to the DB1's , much fresher.

Do any of the dealers you are looking at who stock Adam or ART also stock PMC or ATC - that would be a good start as you may find good gains in building that relationship towards your main purchase. The Deco 8's sounded fantastic on the KI-Pearl, is that what you are considering long term?

 

[Anonymous]

I would audition some Usher Audio speakers, option 4.

Very dynamic and realistic, excellent bass, superb for rock.

 

[John Duncan]

Ahem...

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/pmc-db1i-review

 

[plastic penguin]

Given how smooth the Pearl Lites are I would avoid PMC. Wonderful speakers, but a really smooth system needs a speaker edgy enough to do it justice.

Look at Neat, Dali, Ruark, MA Silver range, ProAc, Quad and possibly Leema Xones.

Thanks Pengers. Neat Motive3 and Dali Lektor2?

Motive 3 and Menuet or even Ikon 6. Mr. Duncan obviously loves the DB1is - and so do I, to be frank - but I really don't think they are tonally right for the Marantz, given how warm and smooth the combo is...

 

[Anonymous]

Personally I prefer ATC to PMC, except that floorstander PMCs have phenomenal bass. The ATC is very natural and less coloured than other speakers. ProAc would be a better alternative to PMC I think. There are plenty of other alternatives e.g. B&W (generally warm & punchy), Dynaudio etc etc. If it's only for a year, I would be scouring the internet for bargains and reading up about each one of them. If you get a second hand or ex-dem speaker for a good price then you don't have to worry too much about it being the perfect match: you can easily resell it for roughly the same.

 

[BenLaw]

If long term you are thinking along the lines of Adam audio I suspect lower end ATC is going to get you closer to that high end type of sound than PMC. Having said that, I've not heard your amplification, but if you like the Marantz sound then ATC will allow you to hear it. If you want to moderate the sonic signature of your components in some way, then I would look away from ATC.

 

[Frank Harvey]

You slightly contracdict yourself, as in the first paragraph you say the ATC are a bit too neutral (dead) for the Marantz, then recommend the SCM7 in the second para, is this due to the price point? You guys stock the Neat Motive3, what is your take on that price notwithstanding?

I said that the ATC's are very neutral, 'dead' sounding, if you like, to give you an idea of the ATC sound. I didn't say they were too neutral for the Marantz

The Neats are excellent little speakers, and will more than likely work well with e Marantz, and if anything I'd say they're more like the PMC sound than ATC, so a little livelier at lower volumes. They do like a bit of room though, unless you use port bungs, but I find port bungs ruin the overall result of what the manufacturer is trying to achieve. If your choice of speakers are being used close to the wall, I'd recommend the ATC's as the way forward.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

I said that the ATC's are very neutral, 'dead' sounding, if you like, to give you an idea of the ATC sound.

As i've always said i feel it would be accurate to describe ATC monitors as being ultimately being flat and honest

 

[BenLaw]

Yeah, 'dead' doesn't sound like a terribly encouraging description, does it?! :O

OP, don't let that description discourage you and don't think they're *only* good close to walls - where that causes other speakers problems, ATCs *continue* to be good in that position. Also good for off axis listening, giving you greater flexibility in a secondary system down the line

 

[Frank Harvey]

We're not talking about people here, we're talking about speakers. Classing them as dead sounding is describing their lack of cabinet coloration, lack of driver ringing, treble 'fizz', and overall control. I have already said to the OP that the ATC's would be the way forward if they're being used close to a wall, so it's not like I'm trying to paint them in a bad light. My description of 'dead' was explained, and only someone looking for any other meaning would take anything else from it.

 

[BenLaw]

We're not talking about people here, we're talking about speakers. Classing them as dead sounding is describing their lack of cabinet coloration, lack of driver ringing, treble 'fizz', and overall control. I have already said to the OP that the ATC's would be the way forward if they're being used close to a wall, so it's not like I'm trying to paint them in a bad light. My description of 'dead' was explained, and only someone looking for any other meaning would take anything else from it.

I picture 2 different auditions in a hifi shop. First one, client listens to a couple of CDs, discusses it with dealer, who says 'they're great aren't they? No cabinet colouration, no driver ringing, no fizz in the treble, great.' Second one, client listens to a couple of CDs, discusses it with dealer, who says 'they're great aren't they? They sound really dead don't they?'

Anyway, nothing wrong with me using my words and you using yours

 

[Frank Harvey]

The ATC's require a bit more driving, and produce a less livelier sound - 'deader', if you like - arguably more accurate.

Well there's the 'offending' sentence, which is a little different from your explanation - people can take from that what they wish. I take it that'll be the end of that now Ben.

 

[Anonymous]

:bounce: After reading past and prescent threads on this forum on Atc speakers. WHY do they seem to cause so much confict ?

Come on lads , We,re in it together , :cheers:

 

[Frank Harvey]

Because a certain few seem intent on trying to picking me up on every little thing I say...

 

[Anonymous]

atc 11,s Fantastic speakers, But somtimes maybe a little too black and white.

 

[BenLaw]

The ATC's require a bit more driving, and produce a less livelier sound - 'deader', if you like - arguably more accurate.

Well there's the 'offending' sentence, which is a little different from your explanation - people can take from that what they wish. I take it that'll be the end of that now Ben.

I think you've over-reacted to what was intended to be a light-hearted comment, David. Do what Frankie says and relax

 

[Craig M.]

:bounce: After reading past and prescent threads on this forum on Atc speakers. WHY do they seem to cause so much confict ?

Come on lads , We,re in it together , :cheers:

having owned scm19s and used a variety of kit with them, i think the reason for some differences of opinion is the low distortion, honest approach to sound, that atc aim for. when compared to all other speakers i've heard, with atc you are hearing any 'character' the electronics might have, more than usual. i've seen atc speakers described as boring and dull, as well as bright and brash. i've experienced a degree of both (moon i3rs - dull, c.a. dacmagic - bright and brash), but obviously the speakers can't be both at the same time! put them on the end of a well balanced system and you get natural, powerful, dynamic and realistic. i think atc are untouched at the price, but if there is something wrong with your system, they won't hide it.

edit: i also, like Matt, have compared the scm19 with the db1i. no contest. if it was a fight the db1is would be dead!

 

[MattSPL]

Ive owned PMC's IB1 and DB1i loudspeakers, and owned ATC's scm19's followed by the ATC scm50asl's which i currently have.

The big PMC IB1's are very good loudspeakers that i found to be better than B&W's N803's in every area, except midrange dynamics where the N803's were excellent.
The bass performance of the IB1 is massive. Huge power(with the right amp), and juicy, fat bass perfect for Reggae and the like where ultimate precision in the bass isn't a must have.

The PMC DB1i has sweeter trebble than the IB1 due to the 'i' upgrade, and is a capable loudspeaker for its tiny size.
I paid £770 for the DB1i, which was its price when released. I feel they were worth their asking price then, but are a bit pricy for what you get today at their(approx) £1000 asking price. They also dont quite measure up to their big brothers studio heritage.

The ATC scm19's beat the PMC DB1i in every area, and more than hint at their studio heritage with their vault like build quality, and similarity to their big brothers in the ATC range.
I realise the scm19 is quite a bit more expensive than the DB1i, but ATC's are known for every model sounding very alike(you just get a but more of everything as you move up the range). So, ATC's scm11, in the same price bracket as the DB1i, will give you most of the scm19's performance.

Audition the PMC's and ATC's because they are quite different, and also pick them up and feel that ATC build quality

 

[Frank Harvey]

Wow, it's like buses....

I disagree Matt. I don't think the SCM19's beat the DB1i in EVERY area. I've mentioned many times the DB1i isn't my favourite PMC speaker, but what I have always said is that it produces such a lively performance for such a small speaker. The SCM19 can't match the DB1i's lively performance, especially at lower volumes. Agreed, in other areas, it beats them. But then, they should, as they're almost twice the price. :doh: