ATC & Bryston HT/HC - What speaker & amp config?

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Hi,

I currently have a pair of ATC SCM19s. I'm thinking of getting a pair of ATC SCM40s for Fronts, using my ATC SCM19s for Rears, and getting a pair of ATC SCM11s for backs and then an ATC C3 Centre and C4 Sub to round off a 7.1 system. Would this work or should I really be getting SCM19s for the back or the same speakers (i.e. SCM19s) all round?

I'm thinking of getting a Bryston 6B-SST2 to use with the SCM40s and C3C, a 3B-SST2 for the SCM19s and 2B-SST2 for the SCM11s. Could I get away with the 9B-SST2 for the centre, rears and backs and, say, a 3B-SST2 for the fronts or something? Depending on recommendations on speaker configuration how should these amps be?

I'm also completely open to alternatives on the amps (I am set on the ATC speakers though, particularly as I already have a pair) although the 20 year warranty on the Bryston appeals to me and I can (at least in my mind) pay it off over twenty years (I'm going to roll the cost of the system into my mortgage on a new house). Also note that I'm in Australia and am quite inclined to import everything as the market down under is a dead set rip off!

Thanks in advance,
Beta4Me
 

Frank Harvey

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With 40's on the front, 19's would be preferential on the back, but either system will still integrate well. The main reason to get the same speakers all round would be if you're building a system for music - for movies it's not so much of an issue.

As for amplification, the ATC's thrive on power. ATC's own amplification kicks out for then 100 "real" watts, which tells you something of their preference. The Brystons will step up to the job admirably. Depending on your situation, you could start off with a 9B and a 5 channel system, then add another pair and the 3B later on.
 
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Anonymous

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It's good to know that all the speakers don't have to be the same and especially that I could maybe get away with SCM11s on the surround backs. I am definitely going to go all the way and get 7.1 to start with (otherwise I know I'll never take the jump and upgrade from 5.1 to it). So based on that what would you suggest Bryston-wise and/or alternative-wise? Thanks!
 

Frank Harvey

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Bryston is a personal favourite of mine, so I'd recommend them. Alternatives? There's plenty, but can anyone else produce the same sort of authority and grip the Bryston's can? Hmmmm......ATC's own power amplification.......

If you are trying to get the best from the 40's, then choosing a dedicated 2 channel amplifier is the right way forward.
 
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Anonymous

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Thanks for the advice. Still the question for me is what amps to use. Would the 9B-SST2 be doing justice to the C3C? Could I use it with a 3B-SST2 or 2B-SST2 for the SCM40s?

Do I need to be looking at more power? With the SCM40s is a 6B-SST2 alright seeing as it is not exactly a dedicated stereo amp, but a tri-channel mono amp? Would I then pair this with a 3B and 2B or what? Thanks!
emotion-2.gif
 
Beta4Me:

Hi,

I currently have a pair of ATC SCM19s. I'm thinking of getting a pair of ATC SCM40s for Fronts, using my ATC SCM19s for Rears, and getting a pair of ATC SCM11s for backs and then an ATC C3 Centre and C4 Sub to round off a 7.1 system. Would this work or should I really be getting SCM19s for the back or the same speakers (i.e. SCM19s) all round?

I'm thinking of getting a Bryston 6B-SST2 to use with the SCM40s and C3C, a 3B-SST2 for the SCM19s and 2B-SST2 for the SCM11s. Could I get away with the 9B-SST2 for the centre, rears and backs and, say, a 3B-SST2 for the fronts or something? Depending on recommendations on speaker configuration how should these amps be?

I'm also completely open to alternatives on the amps (I am set on the ATC speakers though, particularly as I already have a pair) although the 20 year warranty on the Bryston appeals to me and I can (at least in my mind) pay it off over twenty years (I'm going to roll the cost of the system into my mortgage on a new house). Also note that I'm in Australia and am quite inclined to import everything as the market down under is a dead set rip off!

Thanks in advance,
Beta4Me

Hi B4M

I would suggest that you seriously consider using SCM19's (x4) for the surrounds and the back to maintain a uniform balance. As good the SCM11's are they are not up to the level of the SCM19's (with the Super Linear Magnet Technology mid/bass unit).

The SCM19's (x4) will also bring them closer to the performance of the SCM40's (especially with them featuring the awesome soft dome mid drive unit).

I have used/use (when appropiate) SCM40 (front), C3 centre and SCM19 (x4) surrounds and back with the Yamaha DSP-Z11 AV amplifier. It sounds amazing!
emotion-1.gif


However for the ultimate in power, drive, grip, and performance in Multi-Channel Power amplification than please consider Chord Electronics. Depending on budget -

SPM 650 for SCM40's and SPM 2400 for C3 and SCM19 (x4).

SPM 1050 for SCM40's and SPM 2400 for C3 and SCM19 (x4).

SPM 1200E for SCM40's and SPM 3005 for C3 and SCM19 (x4).

I hope this helps.

Thanks

Rick @ Musicraft
 

Frank Harvey

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Beta4Me: Thanks for the advice. Still the question for me is what amps to use. Would the 9B-SST2 be doing justice to the C3C? Could I use it with a 3B-SST2 or 2B-SST2 for the SCM40s?

Do I need to be looking at more power? With the SCM40s is a 6B-SST2 alright seeing as it is not exactly a dedicated stereo amp, but a tri-channel mono amp? Would I then pair this with a 3B and 2B or what? Thanks!
emotion-2.gif
The 3B would be a better bet than the 2B, and the 6B would also be a viable option as their multi channel power amplifiers are of mono construction rather than the cheaper option where all amplifier stages share the same power supply.
 
A

Anonymous

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@Rick: Thanks for the insight into the SCM19s. I thought that it would
be best to use them for both side and back because of the SL driver.
I'll have a look into the Chord Electronics stuff as that wasn't even
on the table for me. Shall be interesting... Thanks!

@Frank: So if I was saying 6B for 40s & C3C, and 2 x 3B for 2 x SCM19s that would be good? Or can I go cheaper? Thanks!
 

Frank Harvey

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You could go cheaper, but it just depends on how well you want to drive the ATC's and how much you want back from them in return. You could look at amps like the Quad 909, but as their forte is a strong midrange, it doesn't do enough for the ATC's at the lower end, which to me makes them a little too lean for my liking, which is where the ATC and Bryston amplification scores big.
 
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Anonymous

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Hey mate,
Firstly, GREAT choice of loudspeakers! Them ATC's are wonderful loudspeakers. Aesthetically-speaking, they aren't the best, but the drive units and construction, and most definitely, the amount of research and development of these loudspeakers, are absolutely world-class.

The ATC SCM40's would be fantastic as front loudspeakers and that giant centre channel would be a good match for them. For surrounds, I tend to think that the SCM19's could be overkill if you purchased another pair to match them (in a 7.1 system). The SCM11's would be more than sufficient as surrounds. However, I get your dilemma in that it might be better to have 2 pairs of the same loudspeakers for your surrounds, and since you already have a pair of SCM19's, you might as well purchase another pair. If you can sell your 19's to purchase 2 pairs of 11's, it might be a good option.

Unfortunately, I have had no experience with Bryston amplifiers, so I cannot comment. What about obtaining something like an Arcam P777 7-channel Power Amplifier, NAD M25 7-channel Power Amplifier, or maybe even the very-configurable 10-channel Denon POA-A1HD?

Dan.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
FrankHarveyHiFi:You could go cheaper, but it just depends on how well you want to drive the ATC's and how much you want back from them in return. You could look at amps like the Quad 909, but as their forte is a strong midrange, it doesn't do enough for the ATC's at the lower end, which to me makes them a little too lean for my liking, which is where the ATC and Bryston amplification scores big.

OK, so you think the 6B-SST2 (for SCM40 & C3C) with two pairs of 3B-SST2s (for two pairs of SCM19s) is the best solution speaker- and amplifier-wise?

dantan:Hey mate,

Firstly, GREAT choice of loudspeakers! Them ATC's are wonderful loudspeakers. Aesthetically-speaking, they aren't the best, but the drive units and construction, and most definitely, the amount of research and development of these loudspeakers, are absolutely world-class.

The ATC SCM40's would be fantastic as front loudspeakers and that giant centre channel would be a good match for them. For surrounds, I tend to think that the SCM19's could be overkill if you purchased another pair to match them (in a 7.1 system). The SCM11's would be more than sufficient as surrounds. However, I get your dilemma in that it might be better to have 2 pairs of the same loudspeakers for your surrounds, and since you already have a pair of SCM19's, you might as well purchase another pair. If you can sell your 19's to purchase 2 pairs of 11's, it might be a good option.

Unfortunately, I have had no experience with Bryston amplifiers, so I cannot comment. What about obtaining something like an Arcam P777 7-channel Power Amplifier, NAD M25 7-channel Power Amplifier, or maybe even the very-configurable 10-channel Denon POA-A1HD?

Dan.

I had looked into the Denon but I thought when spending that kind of money (particularly with the importer for Aus being the rip-off merchants that they are) it might be best to get it from a more audiophile/pro-audio brand. With the market here I don't think I'd really be able to sell of the 19s, but the again if budget constraints became apparent I could always go SCM19 for the fronts and two pairs of SCM11s for the surrounds, no? I'll have a look into some of the amps you mentioned but at those prices it's probably better to get a Bryston, yeah?

Thanks,
Beta4Me
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I have actually listened to the Denon POA-A1HD, and to be honest, if it is within your budget, I would most definitely suggest to at least have a listen to it. RRP here in Australia is $12,999.00, I believe. A lot of money, certainly, but a very good-sounding Power Amplifier.

Otherwise, I have owned my NAD M25 7-channel Power Amplifier for about 14 months now, and still continue to be wowed by it. RRP is now $5,999.00. This is a seriously grunty Power Amplifier.

Unfortunately, I certainly cannot comment on a Bryston. I know that it tends to obtain good reviews, and I know that it is a high-end audio brand, so it has got to be good, but without having listened to one, I cannot really comment.

By the way, what do you have/will be using as a Surround Sound Processor/Pre-amplifier?

Dan.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I will make sure I have the Denon on my short list then
emotion-5.gif
. I really will have to think about this a lot and continue doing my research and have a lot of demos!

For an SSP I'm not entirely sure what I'm going to use. I'll probably just use an old AV Rec. I've got lying around for the moment and then get a: Bryston SP-3, if I go for a Bryston power amp system; a Denon AVP-A1HDCI, if I get the Denon POA-A1HDCI; or maybe a Classe SSP-800, Cary Audio Cinema 11a, or something else comparable if I get something that isn't Bryston or Denon. So many choices
emotion-4.gif


What are your thoughts?
 
Beta4Me:

@Rick: Thanks for the insight into the SCM19s. I thought that it would be best to use them for both side and back because of the SL driver. I'll have a look into the Chord Electronics stuff as that wasn't even on the table for me. Shall be interesting... Thanks!

Hi B4M

Thanks for your post.

I am sure that ideally you would want SCM40's for all seven main channels! However as the fronts only will consist of SCM40's than you don't want to be using too many variables (away from the SCM40's) whilst at the same time maintaining an even balance for the rears.

Three models consisting of SCM40, C3 and SCM19 (x2) is a better bet rather than having four different models consisting of SCM40, C3, SCM19 and SCM11.

Btw, you may also want to consider Chord Electronics DSP8000/8000R processors. They do not have HDMI inputs/cannot decode HD audio from blu ray (there is a 7.1 analogue input though) however when the performance on offer from SD soundtracks is so good than who cares.

The DSP8000 in combination with the SPM 3005 is imo the finest processor/multi-channel power amp combination (irrespective of soundtrack) that i have heard to date (and i have heard quite a few!
emotion-5.gif
). The sheer detail the DSP8000 retrives and the massive grip/power the SPM 3005 (using Chord's HF power supply) exerts/delivers in blistering speed to speakers is awesome. EFFORTLESS.
emotion-2.gif
No wonder George Lucas chose Chord Electronics amplification after evaluating many highly regarded makes.

It's scary to think the performance levels Chord Electronics could achieve when they do get around to HD audio/video.

Thanks

Rick @ Musicraft
 
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Anonymous

Guest
MUSICRAFT:Beta4Me:

@Rick: Thanks for the insight into the SCM19s. I thought that it would be best to use them for both side and back because of the SL driver. I'll have a look into the Chord Electronics stuff as that wasn't even on the table for me. Shall be interesting... Thanks!

Hi B4M

Thanks for your post.

I am sure that ideally you would want SCM40's for all seven main channels! However as the fronts only will consist of SCM40's than you don't want to be using too many variables (away from the SCM40's) whilst at the same time maintaining an even balance for the rears.

Three models consisting of SCM40, C3 and SCM19 (x2) is a better bet rather than having four different models consisting of SCM40, C3, SCM19 and SCM11.

Btw, you may also want to consider Chord Electronics DSP8000/8000R processors. They do not have HDMI inputs/cannot decode HD audio from blu ray (there is a 7.1 analogue input though) however when the performance on offer from SD soundtracks is so good than who cares.

The DSP8000 in combination with the SPM 3005 is imo the finest processor/multi-channel power amp combination (irrespective of soundtrack) that i have heard to date (and i have heard quite a few!
emotion-5.gif
). The sheer detail the DSP8000 retrives and the massive grip/power the SPM 3005 (using Chord's HF power supply) exerts/delivers in blistering speed to speakers is awesome. EFFORTLESS.
emotion-2.gif
No wonder George Lucas chose Chord Electronics amplification after evaluating many highly regarded makes.

It's scary to think the performance levels Chord Electronics could achieve when they do get around to HD audio/video.

Thanks

Rick @ Musicraft

Thanks Rick. I don't think I'd be able to afford the Chord stuff though. If I can't afford 7 x ATC SCM40s I can't really afford their amps and pre/pro ;). Note I have no space restrictions as the room isn't built yet and will be built to fit the equipment! Is there something other than Bryston and a cheaper price point than Chord or should I just go with my gut and settle on Bryston? 6B and 2 x 3Bs?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
If you can get a good deal, and your budget will stretch, I would recommend the Denon pairing of the AVP-A1HDA and POA-A1HD. Extremely well-designed units, reliable, and very powerful. I have watched and listened to them in action, and I do know that at this kind of money, they are pretty much faultless.

By the way, what sort of deal can you get for a C3C centre channel loudspeaker here in Australia?

Dan.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
dantan:
If you can get a good deal, and your budget will stretch, I would recommend the Denon pairing of the AVP-A1HDA and POA-A1HD. Extremely well-designed units, reliable, and very powerful. I have watched and listened to them in action, and I do know that at this kind of money, they are pretty much faultless.

By the way, what sort of deal can you get for a C3C centre channel loudspeaker here in Australia?

Dan.

Appreciate that information my only consideration is that this is not a movies only set up. Although it is primarily a home theatre, I want it to be a really good stereo set up too, thus partly my reasoning behind Bryston. How does the Denon Pre/Pro & Multichannel Power Amp stand up in that regard?

ATC Prices from Wicked Digital:
C3 Centre in Cherry $1799
C3 Centre in Black Ash $1850
C4 Sub Black Ash Only $4499

Prices are pretty good now: $12546 for ATC SCM40, SCM19, C3C & C4 Sub. So yeah. Still of lot of mula and don't think I can afford it--I'll have to see.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
This Denon pairing is truly awesome, mate. I am not a big fan of Denon myself (I have owned a Denon AVR2807 before), but this flag-ship pairing is comparable with the very best out there. If you were to check out reviews about them, and read what they have got under their chassis, you will be very impressed.

The balanced XLR in-puts and out-puts are a plus, too, but then at this price-range, this is to be expected.

Factor in a good CD Player, and 2-channel stereo replay will be very good, too.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
OK, that sounds good. MUST check it out then ;)

Instead of a CD Player I'm going to go Sonos!
emotion-4.gif
 
Beta4Me:MUSICRAFT:Beta4Me:

@Rick: Thanks for the insight into the SCM19s. I thought that it would be best to use them for both side and back because of the SL driver. I'll have a look into the Chord Electronics stuff as that wasn't even on the table for me. Shall be interesting... Thanks!

Hi B4M

Thanks for your post.

I am sure that ideally you would want SCM40's for all seven main channels! However as the fronts only will consist of SCM40's than you don't want to be using too many variables (away from the SCM40's) whilst at the same time maintaining an even balance for the rears.

Three models consisting of SCM40, C3 and SCM19 (x2) is a better bet rather than having four different models consisting of SCM40, C3, SCM19 and SCM11.

Btw, you may also want to consider Chord Electronics DSP8000/8000R processors. They do not have HDMI inputs/cannot decode HD audio from blu ray (there is a 7.1 analogue input though) however when the performance on offer from SD soundtracks is so good than who cares.

The DSP8000 in combination with the SPM 3005 is imo the finest processor/multi-channel power amp combination (irrespective of soundtrack) that i have heard to date (and i have heard quite a few!
emotion-5.gif
). The sheer detail the DSP8000 retrives and the massive grip/power the SPM 3005 (using Chord's HF power supply) exerts/delivers in blistering speed to speakers is awesome. EFFORTLESS.
emotion-2.gif
No wonder George Lucas chose Chord Electronics amplification after evaluating many highly regarded makes.

It's scary to think the performance levels Chord Electronics could achieve when they do get around to HD audio/video.

Thanks

Rick @ Musicraft

Thanks Rick. I don't think I'd be able to afford the Chord stuff though. If I can't afford 7 x ATC SCM40s I can't really afford their amps and pre/pro ;). Note I have no space restrictions as the room isn't built yet and will be built to fit the equipment! Is there something other than Bryston and a cheaper price point than Chord or should I just go with my gut and settle on Bryston? 6B and 2 x 3Bs?

Hi B4M

Thanks for your post.

Fair enough. Please also consider this AV processor/multichannel power combination than -

NAD T 175 AV processor, Chord Electronics SPM 2400 (five channel power amp) for C3 and SCM19 (x4), Chord Electronics SPM 650 (two channel power amp) for SCM40.

The NAD AV processor will work well with the Chord Electronics power amps.

T 175 (UK RRP £1600.00), SPM 2400 (UK RRP £5260.00 Rods, £5890.00 Integra Legs, £6035.00 Nickel Integra Legs), SPM 650 (UK RRP £2500.00 Rods, £2990.00 Integra Legs, £3275.00 Nickel Integra Legs).

It is also worth bearing in mind that the majority of soundtracks are in 5.1. So you could save quite a lot of money if you buy in stages.

T 175, SPM 2400, SCM40, C3 and SCM19 (1 pair).

When 7.1 soundtracks start to become more common than a second pair of SCM19's and a SPM 650 could be added.

Thanks for your support.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft
 

Frank Harvey

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Jun 27, 2008
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Beta4Me:Is there something other than Bryston and a cheaper price point than Chord or should I just go with my gut and settle on Bryston? 6B and 2 x 3Bs?Many people don't take amplification seriously enough. This is why many many AV systems out there are sounding way below par - people just aren't using sufficient amplification for the sort of peaker packages they're using. Personally, I'd rather overdo the amplification than have insufficient amplification.

Maybe you could go for a 6B and use it to drive the front 3, and get the rears at a later date, along with a 3B, which you can then reconfigure the system and use it for the front pair.

When I bought my current hi-fi speakers, I had many choices of amplification. But I knew if I didn't do it properly they'd be a waste of money, so I did the right thing. I knew nothing would drive them like the Bryston's, so I bit the bullet and did the dirty deed
emotion-1.gif


On another note you mention, judging by the way music streaming is going, choosing something like the Sonos is a good move. I've been playing about with it today and I'm quite interested in getting one myself. I have a load of old CD's which I'd get nothing for, and I'm not throwing them out, so they're sitting in a load of CD wallets, and that's not including the shelving where I keep my regular favourite ones. If I'd have had something like Sonos 10 years ago, I'd now have a lot more space, could've purchased the vinyl versions of the decent albums I've bought along with a top notch turntable, and saved money along the way! From now on, I'm only buying CD from my very favourite artists, and that's when they're cheap in sales, unless it's something like the current Pink Floyd or Beatles box sets.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I agree that there are certainly a fair number of people who do not take amplification seriously. They buy very good loudspeakers but power them with A/V Receivers that appear grunty based on specifications sheets but in reality don't have the necessary and required current capabilities to really make them sing and reveal all the subtleties in the soundtrack/music.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
At those prices I may look into the Chord amps, they're moderately comparable to the Bryston. I do think, though, that I'm going to be getting 7.1 straight off because if I get 5.1 I just can't see going to 7.1 from it as it'll be like: 5.1 sounds good and was really expensive, won't pay for more, etc.

One thing I have learnt from ATC is that amps costing three times as much as the speakers are not overkill. Just buy the best you can afford. I'm going to try and do that but, like almost everybody, I don't have ludicrous amounts of money to spend so I'm trying to spend as little as possible whilst still acheiving a good result.

I may in the end keep my current 19s as the fronts and get 2 pairs of SCM11s for the surrounds and then get a 9B-SST2 for the centre and surrounds and, say, a 3B-SST for the SCM19s. That would be MUCH more affordable.

Would it be really worth the increase in price to go from SCM19 + 2 x SCM11 to SCM40 + 2 x SCM19 (along with the appropriate increase in amps)?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
If you listen to a lot of 2-channel music AND have a medium-to-large sized room, then I would say having a pair of floor-standing SCM40's would be a good idea. I have listened to a lot of floor-standing loudspeakers and a lot of stand-mount loudspeakers at many price points, and my personal preference has always been towards floor-standing loudspeakers - only if I have a large enough space to accommodate them and they are not going to be too large for the space available.

I do like the delicacy and accuracy that smaller loudspeakers seem to provide, but for 2-channel listening, I like the fuller sense of scale and fuller bottom-end that good floor-standers can provide.

Saying that, though, I am sure that your SCM19's aren't shabby at all, for 2-channel work.

If you mainly watch movies and listen multi-channel, then you may as well stick with your SCM19's as fronts. The sub-woofer can look after the bottom-end.

Dan.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Thanks for that. I was sort of thinking along those lines, i.e. that the C4 Sub could look after the lower notes that the SCM19 can't output.

On the other hand, would a system of SCM40 + 2 x SCM19 + C3 Centre without a C4 Sub work as well as SCM19 + 2 x SCM11 + C3 Centre + C4 Sub? How do they compare?
 

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