Are new amps much better than those of 20 years ago?

[admin_exported]

Hi all,

My amp is getting on for 20 years old now but still quite sweet (a Kenwood 3020SE) - not in any way high end but was rated highly at the time.

I'm wondering if hi-fi technology has advanced much when it comes to amps? OK so I know that some modern amps are all-singing and all-dancing AV ones, with DACs and all that, but I'm talking about bog-standard two channel amps for stereo listening - are 21st century amps that much better and is it worth upgrading if my budget is only about £300 ?

 

[Anonymous]

There is still good value in older gear and a lot of enthusiasts swear by it. I think (and will probably be shown to be wrong...

that todays sound tends to be cooler than it was 20 years ago. Look at the auction sites and you will see a lot of older gear fetching good prices. I think the general response would be....if its working and you like it, does it really matter.

 

[Anonymous]

I ALSO HAVE HAD A KENWOOD 3020 SE IT WAS THE FIRST AMP I EVER BOUGHT. IT WAS A VERY GOOD AMP IN IT'S DAY I REMEMBER BEING IMPRESSED BY THE SOUNDSTAGE BEING ABLE TO HEAR ALL THE INSTRUMENTS AND THE VOCALS CLEARLY .I THINK IT GOT AN AWARD OR TWO.BUT AS FAR AS HIFI TODAY I THINK IT IS PROBABLY SUPERIOR. I HAVE A FEW OLDER CDS PRE NINETIES SUCH AS YAZOO'S UPSTAIRS AT ERICS 1986 RECORDING AND I HAVE TO CRANK MY CAMBRIDGE AUDIO 540A UP TO 11 OCLOCK AND EVEN THEN IT DOES'NT SOUND THAT GOOD .

 

[wireman]

New technologies bring amplifiers with alternative characters into the arena - I'm thinking of semi and all digital amps here, and the adoption of switch-mode power supplies into established transistor designs also changes the flavour. But do they sound better? Not to me. My own amplifiers are now some 7 years old, but the core design dates back to the late 1970's - yet to my ears they still sound better than anything I hear at shows. It's comforting to be able to walk away from a hi-fi show thinking "there's nothing there that would improve what I already have". Maybe I'm old school with biased views, and of course I have personal preferences which may or may not agree with yours, but my over-riding thought when listening to amplifiers ('modern' hi-fi systems in general) at hi-fi shows nowadays is "It's all very hi-fi, but where's the music gone?". There're some great classic designs out there which still hold their own in my view, and they were only discontinued, updated or changed simply to have a new offering in the marketplace. For example, how many original Naim 250's must there still be out there in daily use, still giving their owners immense pleasure after all these years? So long as your amplifier rocks your personal boat, enjoy.

 

[Anonymous]

I am not familiar with your amp but if your source is a "budget" CD player of the same era then it is likely to be your CD player rather than your amplifier that is the weakest link. Most CD players of twenty years ago could not reproduce rhythm at all well, and they tended to make all genres of music sound restrained and uninvolving.

 

[the record spot]

See the amp in my signature. Just resurrected it for a runthrough last month and it's working a treat with this set-up. Synergy is all IMO and this amp is a fine performer still - dates from 1986 in my case.

 

[Anonymous]

Advances in technology have brought some benefits to the amp world, notably in transistor types. Much improved op amps provide a much more detailed and natural sound, physical capacitor sizes have reduced allowing more to be crammed into a small space, switch gear has improved signal purity with digital volume controls et al instead of potentiometers that degrade over time.

I had my Quad 405 rebuilt with Netaudio's MK3 boards and dual-mono PSU. It made a huge difference. For the same basic design of amp it has much improved capacitors (twice the PSU capacity in the same space), hugely improved op amps and lots of other things. It's a 70s design but realised using bang up-to-date components. Stick a modern preamp with it and you have a pretty potent step forward over the original 70s kit.

 

[aliEnRIK]

I used to own the Kenwood SE amp. Id say it still holds up pretty well

 

[Anonymous]

I am going to state right up front that I lack technological know-how about amplification so my answer is kind of what I have observed and feel whilst looking in....

The hi-fi industry has, like all other industries, benefited from technological advancements (in magnetic shielding and design and op amps - someone mentioned - and semi-conductors, oo-er getting out of depth) that have allowed it to understand the design and manufacturing process and this has manifested itself in the ability to produce products which control how music is reproduced much more... so modern amps tend to be cleaner, colder and more muted in some respects but with clearer detail, better seperation and the ability to push the volume and retain that control...

...for example I have a Cambridge Audio Pre and Power combo that sounds terrific and brash, it really pushes the music out and it loses the bottom end completely... but in a really attractive manner, so bass tends to become quite resonant and raspy... but it can be too harsh for long listening, it is very characterful and although in the right situation it can be fun, it is the equivalent of describing an annoying person as 'characterful'. Now compare that to the modern Arcams that I have... and the Arcam's do better with the reproduction and are wonderful too... but they are definitely more muted.

I would compare it to modern cars vs. old cars... there are 20/30 year old cars that would put a smile on your face, that you would want to own and that have weird idiosyncracies, that are rougher and readier than the modern day equivalents but no less worthy... and then you have modern cars, which have evolved from those earlier products and benefit from more reliability and creature comforts and are a bit more refined... I shall await shooting down for this... but that is life on the WHF Forum...

 

[matthewpiano]

Think about it this way - one of the best amps in the sub £500 sector (Audiolab 8000s) is actually a very old design.

Generally I'm not sure that amplifiers have really got significantly better, particularly at the budget end. Amps like the KA3020SE and Pioneer A400 still stand up extremely well. I sometimes think that you find the best budget amps if you go back even further to some of the 70s designs by Sansui. A serviced and re-capped AU517 will give any of the current crop a real challenge and, in most cases, will actually sound more enjoyable and more musical.

There are great amps being made today but, like others here, I wonder whether many of them have become more about hi-fi and less about music.

 

[ALTANPSX]

World is changing so amp's too. New amplifiers have new approaches to the old technology, new designs, some new technologies. Oldies not goldies this time...But on the other hand, if you are happy with your equipment, so it does not matter it is better or worse.

 

[wireman]

matthewpiano:...sound more enjoyable and more musical.
Isn't this really what it's supposed to be about? From what I hear, it seems to me that many amplifiers today are largely cynical exercises in maximum detail retrieval at the expense of pretty much all else, and especially at the expense of the music. Frankly, I don't care if my amplifier uses the latest cmos device, or op-amp, or uber-sensation capacitor... all I care about is that it sounds right to me, and I don't care how it does it... just that it does. Surely a good amplifier (hi-fi) should evoke emotive words such as surprise, delight, excite, engage, communicate... not cold, logical, clinical words like detail, accuracy, or even neutrality necessarily. Some of the best amplifiers I've ever heard weren't by any stretch "neutral", but boy, did they boogie (what you logical guys would call pace, rhythm and timing)! It seems to me that many designers/manufacturers today have lost the plot; they design product logically with their heads and not (as they used to) with their hearts. Ignore me... I'm probably living in the past!

 

[matthewpiano]

wireman:
matthewpiano:...sound more enjoyable and more musical.
Isn't this really what it's supposed to be about? From what I hear, it seems to me that many amplifiers today are largely cynical exercises in maximum detail retrieval at the expense of pretty much all else, and especially at the expense of the music. Frankly, I don't care if my amplifier uses the latest cmos device, or op-amp, or uber-sensation capacitor... all I care about is that it sounds right to me, and I don't care how it does it... just that it does. Surely a good amplifier (hi-fi) should evoke emotive words such as surprise, delight, excite, engage, communicate... not cold, logical, clinical words like detail, accuracy, or even neutrality necessarily. Some of the best amplifiers I've ever heard weren't by any stretch "neutral", but boy, did they boogie (what you logical guys would call pace, rhythm and timing)! It seems to me that many designers/manufacturers today have lost the plot; they design product logically with their heads and not (as they used to) with their hearts. Ignore me... I'm probably living in the past!

An absolutely superb post which I agree with wholeheartedly.