Arcam r-dac on loan

gbhsi1

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Mar 5, 2008
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Hi guys, got this on loan today from Sevenoaks - I m having issues with some bass heavy tracks, I can't seem to sort out the volume adjustments via the pure i20 dock and my roksan kandy integrated. When I place my iPhone on the dock, does the volume on the iPhone have to be on it's highest or lowest. Sometimes I have to go past the 12 o clock on my amp to listen at a decent level. If I use the dock control it increases the volume sometimes but not other times??? If I play a cd it's fine. What do I need to do to match the volumes or get the best out of the volume adjustments?? Please help guys..
 

dannycanham

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May 5, 2009
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gbhsi1 said:
Hi guys, got this on loan today from Sevenoaks - I m having issues with some bass heavy tracks, I can't seem to sort out the volume adjustments via the pure i20 dock and my roksan kandy integrated. When I place my iPhone on the dock, does the volume on the iPhone have to be on it's highest or lowest. Sometimes I have to go past the 12 o clock on my amp to listen at a decent level. If I use the dock control it increases the volume sometimes but not other times??? If I play a cd it's fine. What do I need to do to match the volumes or get the best out of the volume adjustments?? Please help guys..
I haven't used one but I would have though to leave the volume on full for all but the amp and take off any sound enhancements on the ipod.
 

philipjohnwright

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Jun 26, 2009
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Most iPod / iPhone docks bypass the internal volume control in the iPod, so you can't change volume on them at all. I don't have experience of the i20 but have just had a look at it on their website and can't see anything that would lead me to believe it's any different. Particularly if you are using its digital out into the rDac.

Which does rather beg the question why you are able to change the volume sometimes.

nb I have an rDac myself. Lovely piece of kit.
 
gbhsi1 said:
Hi guys, got this on loan today from Sevenoaks - I m having issues with some bass heavy tracks, I can't seem to sort out the volume adjustments via the pure i20 dock and my roksan kandy integrated. When I place my iPhone on the dock, does the volume on the iPhone have to be on it's highest or lowest. Sometimes I have to go past the 12 o clock on my amp to listen at a decent level. If I use the dock control it increases the volume sometimes but not other times??? If I play a cd it's fine. What do I need to do to match the volumes or get the best out of the volume adjustments?? Please help guys..
Hi gbhsi1,

From what I gather you have the i20 connected to the amp by its analogue outpus, is this correct?

I did manage to find, and I quote,

'One minor bugbear is that the output level of the iPod in part decides the analogue output of the i-20. Unless the iPod is set to full volume, the i-20 will not produce the posted output voltage.'

To get the very best out of your setup you really need to feed a pure digital signal to a stand-alone DAC and then into your amp. I know the i20 has its own inbuilt DAC but what its quality is like I do not know as I use the Onkyo equivalent.
 

gbhsi1

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Mar 5, 2008
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So the iPod volume needs to be on maximum before it place it on the dock? Sorry, I don't understand your last sentence with regards to a pure digital signal? One of them has to be analogue ....correct? All this digital malarky is proving more irritating than enjoyable. Also, I'm surprised I'm able tho use the supplied i 20 remote to adjust the volume sometimes? ..should I have got a onkyo nds-1?
 

gbhsi1

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Mar 5, 2008
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The i 20 is connected to the arcam via coaxial and the the arcam is connected to my amp via RCA - sorry forgot to answer your first question.
 

gbhsi1

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Mar 5, 2008
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Guys, would the problem lie if the iPhone is on silent? I'm not home so can't test it...if yes, I'm a royal ...you know what :)
 

6th.replicant

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Oct 26, 2007
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Slightly OT, but...

It's been said before, but perhaps it's worth repeating: be aware that an rDAC needs at least 100 hours of run-in. (You might've noticed it's not too hot on detail and the bottom-end is a tad 'flabby'?)

Naysayers will claim that there's no componentry within a DAC that responds to/requires run-in but IME, and many others, the rDAC really does need its 100+ hours.

After an initial listening session at home, I didn't use to my rDAC when running-in; ergo, it wasn't a case of 'ears becoming accustomed' ;)
 

dannycanham

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May 5, 2009
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6th.replicant said:
Slightly OT, but...

It's been said before, but perhaps it's worth repeating: be aware that an rDAC needs at least 100 hours of run-in. (You might've noticed it's not too hot on detail and the bottom-end is a tad 'flabby'?)

Naysayers will claim that there's no componentry within a DAC that responds to/requires run-in but IME, and many others, the rDAC really does need its 100+ hours.

After an initial listening session at home, I didn't use to my rDAC when running-in; ergo, it wasn't a case of 'ears becoming accustomed' ;)
This really annoys me. None of my kit has ever really needed running in except for speakers. I don’t believe it is necessary. I'm a naysayer. My rDac took nearly 200 hours. I spent 200 hours hearing something I don’t believe in. The bass, treble and detail mutated over that time, swaying slowly one way then another. Sometimes the balance was pleasing and sometimes it wasn’t. At times the bass was flabby, at times the treble was harsh, and at times the detail was vague. The final 50 headed towards a good balance slowly. After that nothing. The sound signature has been steady as a rock. Quite a bit of kit has taken a little while to get used to and the rDac wasn’t like that.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
dannycanham said:
6th.replicant said:
Slightly OT, but...

It's been said before, but perhaps it's worth repeating: be aware that an rDAC needs at least 100 hours of run-in. (You might've noticed it's not too hot on detail and the bottom-end is a tad 'flabby'?)

Naysayers will claim that there's no componentry within a DAC that responds to/requires run-in but IME, and many others, the rDAC really does need its 100+ hours.

After an initial listening session at home, I didn't use to my rDAC when running-in; ergo, it wasn't a case of 'ears becoming accustomed' ;)
This really annoys me. None of my kit has ever really needed running in except for speakers. I don’t believe it is necessary. I'm a naysayer. My rDac took nearly 200 hours. I spent 200 hours hearing something I don’t believe in. The bass, treble and detail mutated over that time, swaying slowly one way then another. Sometimes the balance was pleasing and sometimes it wasn’t. At times the bass was flabby, at times the treble was harsh, and at times the detail was vague. The final 50 headed towards a good balance slowly. After that nothing. The sound signature has been steady as a rock. Quite a bit of kit has taken a little while to get used to and the rDac wasn’t like that.
I honestly haven't got a clue what you are saying there. Do you think it took time to burn in or not? FWIW I definitely think it has it has taken a good 100 hours for mine to settle down
 

6th.replicant

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Oct 26, 2007
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daskeg said:
dannycanham said:
6th.replicant said:
Slightly OT, but...

It's been said before, but perhaps it's worth repeating: be aware that an rDAC needs at least 100 hours of run-in. (You might've noticed it's not too hot on detail and the bottom-end is a tad 'flabby'?)

Naysayers will claim that there's no componentry within a DAC that responds to/requires run-in but IME, and many others, the rDAC really does need its 100+ hours.

After an initial listening session at home, I didn't use to my rDAC when running-in; ergo, it wasn't a case of 'ears becoming accustomed' ;)
This really annoys me. None of my kit has ever really needed running in except for speakers. I don’t believe it is necessary. I'm a naysayer. My rDac took nearly 200 hours. I spent 200 hours hearing something I don’t believe in. The bass, treble and detail mutated over that time, swaying slowly one way then another. Sometimes the balance was pleasing and sometimes it wasn’t. At times the bass was flabby, at times the treble was harsh, and at times the detail was vague. The final 50 headed towards a good balance slowly. After that nothing. The sound signature has been steady as a rock. Quite a bit of kit has taken a little while to get used to and the rDac wasn’t like that.
I honestly haven't got a clue what you are saying there. Do you think it took time to burn in or not? ...
Indeed, a phrase that uses the words 'going', 'coming', 'know' and 'doesn't' springs to mind :rofl:
 

gbhsi1

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Mar 5, 2008
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I'm not sure what the running in bit is got to do with the volume issue I'm having...also this is a loan product and the store has been using it for a while so running in wouldn't be an issue? Any ideas on my volume issue??
 

Lee H

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Oct 7, 2010
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Is it seated correctly? Normally, docking an iPod turns off the volume control on the iPod.
 

CnoEvil

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dannycanham said:
This really annoys me. None of my kit has ever really needed running in except for speakers. I don’t believe it is necessary. I'm a naysayer. My rDac took nearly 200 hours. I spent 200 hours hearing something I don’t believe in. The bass, treble and detail mutated over that time, swaying slowly one way then another. Sometimes the balance was pleasing and sometimes it wasn’t. At times the bass was flabby, at times the treble was harsh, and at times the detail was vague. The final 50 headed towards a good balance slowly. After that nothing. The sound signature has been steady as a rock. Quite a bit of kit has taken a little while to get used to and the rDac wasn’t like that.
That's the start (or not) of the rot! Soon (well maybe not so soon) you'll find yourself agreeing with me!! :D

.....now with a good power cord!.... ;)
 

gbhsi1

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It's docked perfectly. I have being plaiyng around and have found a way to kind of sort it. Before inserting the dock I make sure the volume on the iphone is on the lowest, then I use the pure's remote control and increase the volume until it reaches its maximum, the last bit is to control the volume with the amp and it goes much louder! but surely this can't be everytime I use the dock?.....What Hi-fi experts can you help please?
 
gbhsi1 said:
The i 20 is connected to the arcam via coaxial and the the arcam is connected to my amp via RCA - sorry forgot to answer your first question.
Let me get this straight you have a single digital coax cable from a digital out socket on the i20 going to a digital in socket on your R-DAC then two cables from the analogue outputs of the R-DAC to analogue in sockets on the Roksan, right?
 

dannycanham

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May 5, 2009
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gbhsi1 said:
It's docked perfectly. I have being plaiyng around and have found a way to kind of sort it. Before inserting the dock I make sure the volume on the iphone is on the lowest, then I use the pure's remote control and increase the volume until it reaches its maximum, the last bit is to control the volume with the amp and it goes much louder! but surely this can't be everytime I use the dock?.....What Hi-fi experts can you help please?
You have two connection options at the moment

ipod -> dock -> amp

ipod -> dock -> rdac -> amp

The only check you should need to make is that the amp input is set to the correct connection. dock or rDac.

You should not need to touch the volume setting on the ipod at all. Each time the ipod is put in the dock you just need to turn the volume up to full on the remote as a review mentions:

"One minor bugbear is that the output level of the iPod in part decides the analogue output of the i-20. Unless the iPod is set to full volume, the i-20 will not produce the posted output voltage." This always resets everytime you remove the ipod and probably when you switch it off as well.

however that should only happen when you have the input on your amplifier set to connect straight to the dock and not to the rDac. (The analogue cables should be coming out of the rDac and the input of the amp set to the same input those cables are plugged into).

If setup with cables going from the rDac to the amp, and set to those inputs are selected you shouldn't be able to control the volume on anything but the amplifier. The manual only states volume control for its own analogue outputs.
 

dannycanham

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May 5, 2009
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daskeg said:
dannycanham said:
6th.replicant said:
Slightly OT, but...

It's been said before, but perhaps it's worth repeating: be aware that an rDAC needs at least 100 hours of run-in. (You might've noticed it's not too hot on detail and the bottom-end is a tad 'flabby'?)

Naysayers will claim that there's no componentry within a DAC that responds to/requires run-in but IME, and many others, the rDAC really does need its 100+ hours.

After an initial listening session at home, I didn't use to my rDAC when running-in; ergo, it wasn't a case of 'ears becoming accustomed' ;)
This really annoys me. None of my kit has ever really needed running in except for speakers. I don’t believe it is necessary. I'm a naysayer. My rDac took nearly 200 hours. I spent 200 hours hearing something I don’t believe in. The bass, treble and detail mutated over that time, swaying slowly one way then another. Sometimes the balance was pleasing and sometimes it wasn’t. At times the bass was flabby, at times the treble was harsh, and at times the detail was vague. The final 50 headed towards a good balance slowly. After that nothing. The sound signature has been steady as a rock. Quite a bit of kit has taken a little while to get used to and the rDac wasn’t like that.
I honestly haven't got a clue what you are saying there. Do you think it took time to burn in or not? FWIW I definitely think it has it has taken a good 100 hours for mine to settle down
I am saying my rDac did definitely to my ears need running in here:

"My rDac took nearly 200 hours. I spent 200 hours hearing something I don’t believe in. The bass, treble and detail mutated over that time, swaying slowly one way then another. Sometimes the balance was pleasing and sometimes it wasn’t. At times the bass was flabby, at times the treble was harsh, and at times the detail was vague. The final 50 headed towards a good balance slowly."

I am saying in my 20 odd years of listening to hi-fi I don't believe in running in here:

"This really annoys me. None of my kit has ever really needed running in except for speakers. I don’t believe it is necessary. I'm a naysayer."

I'm obviously complex and multi layered, like an onion. Or I'm turning into CnoEvil and will be covering my flat surfaces with magic beans to diffuse the reflections...which actually sounds like it just might work :O
 

gbhsi1

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I can't mess with volume on the iPhone usin the touchscreen but I can turn the volume up and down with the pure little remote without using the volume on the amp. I can only do this if the volume of the iPhone is set to minimum before docking on the pure. I have it connected it right, pure digital to rdac digital, rdac analogue to amp line 2.
 
gbhsi1 said:
I can't mess with volume on the iPhone usin the touchscreen but I can turn the volume up and down with the pure little remote without using the volume on the amp. I can only do this if the volume of the iPhone is set to minimum before docking on the pure. I have it connected it right, pure digital to rdac digital, rdac analogue to amp line 2.
A curious one ghbsi1!

I do not have this problem when using iPod / Onkyo nds-1 combo via my DAC, but then again there is no volume control on the Onkyo's remote control.

Perhaps I could suggest you swap the inputs on the back of the amp to a different line-in pair (possibly, if you have a spare input pair, or remove whatever else you may have plugged into line 1 temporarily) and see if the problem still occurs.

Also to determine if it is the R-Dac thats at fault remove it from the equation by connecting analogue phono cables direct from your i20 dock to the amp and see if problem still exists - although I guess you would have had it connected like this prior to the loan of the DAC.
 

oldric_naubhoff

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Mar 11, 2011
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I can't mess with volume on the iPhone usin the touchscreen but I can turn the volume up and down with the pure little remote without using the volume on the amp. I can only do this if the volume of the iPhone is set to minimum before docking on the pure. I have it connected it right, pure digital to rdac digital, rdac analogue to amp line 2.
theoretically you should get maximum output from iPod -> pure i20 -> rDac . but if you can control volume through the dock it looks like this pure i20 dock has some way of controlling iPod's volume control in digital domain (not analog). and it probably passes this modified signal into rDac, hence differences in volume level. I would suggest that you always keep iPod's volume at max level and pure's volume at max level as well. that should ensure that complete digital signal reaches rDac and you should get normal volume levels from your amp. if this not helps I really don't know what else might...
 

dannycanham

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May 5, 2009
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It turns out the pure does indeed read the volume level data from the iphone and it adjusts it before sending it to the dac.

This volume only exists on certain generations of iphone/ipod and only when using certain software to stream the music.

Nothing on the strange bug you are getting with it but I would say it is most likely during this process.
 

gbhsi1

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Mar 5, 2008
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Its actually happened without the introduction of the r-dac so it's not it, it'a very stranger thing that is happening...wierd indeed!
 

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