Applying 1980 values . . .

CJSF

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HiFi . . . a world I inhabited for many years as a younger man . . . a world that collapsed around me in 95, and stayed derelict until early this year. Picking up the pieces was initially a hard task, however, its become easier in recent months. Lots of frustration along the way for me and the readers of my threads?

Unfortunately, on occasions one has been misunderstood . . . but many of the comments have helped, pulled me up, made me re-look, helped to put my mind and thoughts in order, so than you for your patience.

I feel as though I am at the end of this particular road of re discovering hifi, my pleasure in music and its reproduction. I have gone back over the recent threads with interest, a few turning points and frustration. But the goal has been achieved, not by mimicking my 1980's sound . . . more by applying my values of that era.

What was said not to be possible, has more than been achieved. When I should have stopped, I pressed on through the barrier . . . an achievement in my topsy-turvy but improving world.

It has been interesting that the source TT was simple, un-presuming, as is the rest of the system. I think I've said before, over design, in my mind, is often a problem.

The final phase was the Sumiko cartridge, putting the icing on the cake so to speak . . . the cherry had to be added . . . ????? I new there was a cherry, but finding it? Going back would have upset what I saw as a 'balanced system for me'. The weak link was the Ortofon T5 phono plug transformer step ups, in truth, always a stop gap. As good as the T5's are . . . I had to push that last bit, were they a weak link?

. . . I have found some friendly, helpful dealers, they need digging out, from back streets and back rooms. Two such dealers loaned 'step ups' for me to try. A pair of Stevens & Billington step-up transformers, a vintage Carver MCt step up transformer and a Dynovector step up amp with Russ Andrews PSU.

A pot full of Cherries . . . they all have their points, but we are talking minimal sideways moves around the same centre of excellence. I have plumped for the vintage Carver, its from my era, with open sound stage, extra layers revealed, reality of instruments and voice along with musicality and smoothness. Its edge . . . a drive and crispness to dynamics that just demands attention . . . without being harsh, again a quality I remember from the transformer I used in the 80's. I have an old recording of Sandy Nelson that came over as though the performance was in the room. I have never heard, drums and symbols so real, skin strike! before the note and harmonics develop was simply jaw dropping. Then there is the old style Stratocaster, old style played . . . wow, I was standing next to it! All the normal test tracks stood out, finally Miserere, I usually leave till the evening of any test session, not this time . . . image . . . air . . . the extra layers that had been revealed by the Sumiko/T5 combination, was simply more articulate.

I genuinely dont think I can go any further with out upsetting the balance of the whole. I truly do not want to go further. One is restricted by room size and cash flow . . . says Hazel :read: Bless here . . .

I've got all these records to listen to . . . CJSF
 

CJSF

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The end of the end . . . After 16 years of wilderness, 12 months of fighting my demons, hifi was . . . is my anchor, seems the forum has lost interest? . . . ho hum :bounce: but I have won! . . . Despite the thinking, I was/am mad . . . may be the case?

I have finally achieved 'the sound', yesterday I thought it was it. All day today 'listening to my music', a tweak and re visit to one of the old significant TT changes, all the pieces dropped into place:dance:

I can enjoy the nearest thing to my 80's audiophile musical experience that lurks in my memory.

I muse back, no major component in my system have I paid full price for, either ex dem, called in favours, or simply second hand. Thinking back that was how I did it the first time round:rofl: A bit of tenacity, a lot of &alls, and sticking to the age old principals of excellence at the front end . . . Linn had something right; 'rubbish in rubbish out'.

My audiophile sound was not perfect in 1980, it is not perfect now . . . but I like what I hear which is the underlying second principal, 'it pleases me . . . and Hazel'.

I look forward to Horlicks time this evening with Hazel.

CJSF
 

CnoEvil

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CJSF said:
seems the forum has lost interest? . . .

I look forward to Horlicks time this evening with Hazel.

CJSF

Please don't equate a lack of response with a lack of interest....sometimes there is nothing constructive to add to your comprehensive "blog"....or rhetorical questions. :)

As long as Hazel is in your corner, nothing else really matters. :)
 

chebby

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CJSF said:
seems the forum has lost interest? . . .

99 percent of your posts have been in the 'Turntables and LPs' sub-forum which is usually only seen by those who deliberately seek out turntable related posts. (Or those - like me - who view all active topics.)

So your 'audience' is somewhat limited to begin with.
 
CnoEvil said:
CJSF said:
seems the forum has lost interest? . . .

I look forward to Horlicks time this evening with Hazel.

CJSF

Please don't equate a lack of response with a lack of interest....sometimes there is nothing constructive to add to your comprehensive "blog"....or rhetorical questions. :) As long as Hazel is in your corner, nothing else really matters. :)

Too true - perhaps CJ has achieved the perfect COMPROMISE, and that's all one can ask.

Sit back with your Horlicks and enjoy the sweet sounds...:wave:
 

CJSF

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Ho-Hum . . . at least it did generate some response?

As it was TT one was dealing with, I thought that those who own or the desire to own a TT might have gained something from the experience? Seems I cant win? . . . but I did win . . . you bet I have won.:cheer:

CJSF
 

edplaysdrums42

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Hi CJ

Glad you have found the cart you were looking for. I personally didnt have anything to add. I did learn something though, you have to spend a lot of your hard earned on a MC cart and step up transformers to get a top notch sound! I wouldnt fit someyhing like that on my humble P3.

I'll treat myself to decent TT in year or two. Thanks for the posts CJ i'm sure we've all learnt something from your search in some way or another.

Cheers Ed :)
 

CJSF

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edplaysdrums42 said:
Hi CJ

Glad you have found the cart you were looking for. I personally didnt have anything to add. I did learn something though, you have to spend a lot of your hard earned on a MC cart and step up transformers to get a top notch sound! I wouldnt fit someyhing like that on my humble P3.

I'll treat myself to decent TT in year or two. Thanks for the posts CJ i'm sure we've all learnt something from your search in some way or another.

Cheers Ed :)

Hay Ed, The cost of the Sumiko cartridge and the MC transformer in total was no more than a new Ortofon Black . . . ! Its the putting myself about that put me in the 'right place at the right time' to grab the bargain. I would perhaps agree, the Sumi is a bit OTT on the P3 . . . but then that was said of the P5, it has risen to the occasion. I was very lucky with both the cartridge and the Carver MCt . . . ? there are some that say 'we make our own luck'? I certainly spent a lot of time thinking, actual tinker time was minimal, in with the thinking comes hours on the internet, searching, reading, re thinking?

I look back, take on board the advise; 'listen to the music'. That translates, in my mind, 'never mind the quality, feel the width', if I've got the cash, I cant make do . . . don the work, now is the time to listen to the 'performances', the fruits of my labours.

Had a great 'Horlicks' session last night, dug out some chamber music by Vivaldi and Bach, followed by the now obligatory Miserere, which we listen to in the dark, eyes closed, try it some time with a piece of ethereal type music, its an experience, trust me.

You would really appreciate my Sandy Nelson, recorded early 60's, no messing about with over dubs, WYSIWYG! The Sumiko brings the drum kit into the room, and at 12ft square, thats intimate!

The P3 is a nice TT, well engineered, that can be improved with the GT2 ISO-sub-platter. The ISO weight is good for the arm, but you do have to work with the cartridge down force to get the best from it. There is also the much cheaper (£15) option of the SRM sub-platter damping kit. I found that it worked better minus 2 opposite section.

CJSF
 

CJSF

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Lost Angeles said:
21st century values, Red wine beats Horlicks any day. 8)

Ah, but Horlicks does not give you a headache . . . I'm happy 'back in the good old days'. Pull up the draw bridge, Hazel, dog, slippers, no pipe (non smoker) and relax, watch the world doing its lemming impression . . .

CJSF
 

chebby

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CJSF said:
Lost Angeles said:
21st century values, Red wine beats Horlicks any day. 8)

. . . I'm happy 'back in the good old days'.

Red wine was around long before the 'good old days' and thousands of years before ###### Horlicks.

I'm sick of the stuff and I don't even drink it! (Who does, apart from CJSF and Hazel?)

CJSF said:
. . . watch the world doing its lemming impression . . .

You do know that was a myth perpetrated by Disney don't you?
 
chebby said:
CJSF said:
Lost Angeles said:
21st century values, Red wine beats Horlicks any day. 8)

. . . I'm happy 'back in the good old days'.

Red wine was around long before the 'good old days' and thousands of years before ###### Horlicks.

I'm sick of the stuff and I don't even drink it! (Who does, apart from CJSF and Hazel?)

CJSF said:
. . . watch the world doing its lemming impression . . .

You do know that was a myth perpetrated by Disney don't you?

Not Horlicks - I'm a warm milk person...
smiley-sealed.gif
 

The_Lhc

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chebby said:
CJSF said:
seems the forum has lost interest? . . .

99 percent of your posts have been in the 'Turntables and LPs' sub-forum which is usually only seen by those who deliberately seek out turntable related posts. (Or those - like me - who view all active topics.)

So your 'audience' is somewhat limited to begin with.

and if you were a little bit more concise in your postings it might help. I mean I started reading the first post and I've got to be honest, I've no idea what the relevance of the subject line is because I never got past the first paragraph. I don't find your writing style conducive to an easy read.

And as someone else said, you over-analyse to an extraordinary degree (it appears, I'm basing that on your own postings, so if you aren't doing that then, well, it's your fault that you give that impression. And I am aware that I'm analysing your postings to the nth degree...). Either way, it doesn't really fit into the concept of a quick browse, your threads require a lot of time to get anything out of them and I daresay most people don't come here in that frame of mind.
 

CJSF

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The_Lhc said:
chebby said:
CJSF said:
seems the forum has lost interest? . . .

99 percent of your posts have been in the 'Turntables and LPs' sub-forum which is usually only seen by those who deliberately seek out turntable related posts. (Or those - like me - who view all active topics.)

So your 'audience' is somewhat limited to begin with.

and if you were a little bit more concise in your postings it might help. I mean I started reading the first post and I've got to be honest, I've no idea what the relevance of the subject line is because I never got past the first paragraph. I don't find your writing style conducive to an easy read.

And as someone else said, you over-analyse to an extraordinary degree (it appears, I'm basing that on your own postings, so if you aren't doing that then, well, it's your fault that you give that impression. And I am aware that I'm analysing your postings to the nth degree...). Either way, it doesn't really fit into the concept of a quick browse, your threads require a lot of time to get anything out of them and I daresay most people don't come here in that frame of mind.

The_Lhc . . . ??? I'm a thinker . . . or try to be? Whats so wrong about that? . . . you want things laid on a plate, take the easy rout?:? My threads tend to be my thought processes out loud, usually, without a conclusion . . . as such, those processes tend to be a little random some times, I'm a bit that way anyway . . . the idea is for other 'thinking individuals' to help put the thoughts into perspective, almost as a debate, airing the pros and cons?

There is no such thing as over analysis, its how much one wishes to take note of said considerations. Me, I like it in depth, then one takes the meat and spits out the bones, whats so wrong about that?

CJSF
 

The_Lhc

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CJSF said:
The_Lhc said:
chebby said:
CJSF said:
seems the forum has lost interest? . . .

99 percent of your posts have been in the 'Turntables and LPs' sub-forum which is usually only seen by those who deliberately seek out turntable related posts. (Or those - like me - who view all active topics.)

So your 'audience' is somewhat limited to begin with.

and if you were a little bit more concise in your postings it might help. I mean I started reading the first post and I've got to be honest, I've no idea what the relevance of the subject line is because I never got past the first paragraph. I don't find your writing style conducive to an easy read.

And as someone else said, you over-analyse to an extraordinary degree (it appears, I'm basing that on your own postings, so if you aren't doing that then, well, it's your fault that you give that impression. And I am aware that I'm analysing your postings to the nth degree...). Either way, it doesn't really fit into the concept of a quick browse, your threads require a lot of time to get anything out of them and I daresay most people don't come here in that frame of mind.

The_Lhc . . . ??? I'm a thinker . . . or try to be? Whats so wrong about that? . . . you want things laid on a plate, take the easy rout?:? My threads tend to be my thought processes out loud, usually, without a conclusion

Yes and that's what makes them so difficult to read.

. . . as such, those processes tend to be a little random some times, I'm a bit that way anyway . . . the idea is for other 'thinking individuals' to help put the thoughts into perspective, almost as a debate, airing the pros and cons?

There is no such thing as over analysis, its how much one wishes to take note of said considerations. Me, I like it in depth, then one takes the meat and spits out the bones, whats so wrong about that?

There's nothing "wrong" with it but you queried why you weren't getting much response, I'm giving you my opinion on why that is, you don't write with your reader in mind.
 
CJSF said:
Ho-Hum . . . at least it did generate some response?

As it was TT one was dealing with, I thought that those who own or the desire to own a TT might have gained something from the experience? Seems I cant win? . . . but I did win . . . you bet I have won.:cheer:

CJSF

In addition to The_Lhc's and Chebby's comments, forums are a strange things: Some threads generate 50 or more replies and the next and subsequent threads only receive one or two replies. Speaking personally, if I don't reply it's because either I have no idea about the subject or feel I can't add positively to previous replies.

Up until fairly recently, when WHFI re-jigged the site, you used to be able to see how many 'views' each subject got. On numerous occasions - threads of mine - got several hundred views, yet nobody replied...

Keep contributing to other peoples turntable/cartridge dilemmas, and keep us updated on your current bundle.
 

Charlie Jefferson

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Hi CJ,

Personally I really enjoy your posts - whether they mirror my own concerns or not. You have opinions, queries, anxieties and deliberations which is why they are readable.

As you acknowledge, they are often thoughts aloud, but there are many rewards for the reader who cares to give you the good grace to seek them out.

Keep it coming, and know that there are plenty of us who will read, contemplate and occasionally respond.

Peace etc
 

chebby

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Horlicks time again last night with Hazel. . . miserere on the P5????. . . broken bell vinyl perfection but was it!!! Decided to investigate Ovaltine to see if last bit of jigsaw missing from '80s memory. . . went to all local dealers (Tesco, newsagent, ASDA) but got typical 'bandwagon' responses when asking for demo samples (not like this 20 years ago in the early 1980s when dealers really new there stuff. . .hmmm)

Only wanted tin of of each to take home to try out. . . told them would bring back both and only want small discount taken off one I kept. . . unacceptable now apparently. Have to pay before drinking . . . phoned lovely chap who used to do all my malted milk supplies in 1980s???? (back before lazy digital shops when we had proper corner shops with experts in aprons and british racing green coffee grinders!!!!) . . . 50 mile trip with sandwiches and flask from lovely Hazel . . . came back with Ovaltine, cocoa, hot chocolate, Horlicks on loan. . . despite not having seen him for 40 years since the mid '80s (This guy knows how to keep his customers!!!!)

Spent 5 hours with all of my favourite track (miserere) tyring out each drink in turn. . . and different combinations !!!! (no half measures or 'pour n play' here . . . 1980s all the way my friend and no 'bandwagons'????!!!!)

Give it a few more weeks before deciding???? (????) but the 'tweaker' in me found out that replacing bearing oil with Horlicks gives the mids and highs more midness and highness especially on tracks like 'miserere'. . . lazy digital 'bandwagon' folk would never have found this out because they can't just download this sort of thing???? (or '!!!!' I lose count sometimes . . .)

Maybe it'll never sound like my old 'deluded' SPU but . . . yes Horlicks is definitely the one for me . . . they must use silver in the foil that seals the Ovaltine tins !!!! ('bandwagons' again you see????) . . nasty, screachy, tinny stuff. . .

Slippers, Hazel, Horlicks, wet Labrador, open fire, gentle grinding noise from P5 bearing, miserere. . . bliss . . . this is what it's all about . . . keep your nasty 'plug n play' digital bandwagon nonsense.

CFSJ
 

CJSF

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I have just been out to return a MC phono stage to my friendly local dealer and walk the dog. An hour of pondering on negativity did me no good:wall: Thanks for the refreshing positive thoughts . . . if I could come to the perfect conclusion on my own, one would not need to post or have a forum? Plus the outcome of the thought, discussion and advise, surly helps other? One thing for sure, we ain't dealing with 'plug and play' . . . :? :cheers:

CJSF
 

CJSF

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Chebby . . . I think you have been in the sun to long, or at the bottle of 'Bells 20 year vintage' . . . ?

Whats the matter mate . . . cant handle it when it all comes out right in the end . . . :boohoo:

CJSF
 

The_Lhc

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CJSF said:
Chebby . . . I think you have been in the sun to long, or at the bottle of 'Bells 20 year vintage' . . . ?

Whats the matter mate . . . cant handle it when it all comes out right in the end . . . :boohoo:

CJSF

Get over yourself mate, it's a joke, a very clever and accurate one at that.
 

CJSF

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The_Lhc said:
CJSF said:
Chebby . . . I think you have been in the sun to long, or at the bottle of 'Bells 20 year vintage' . . . ?

Whats the matter mate . . . cant handle it when it all comes out right in the end . . . :boohoo:

CJSF

Get over yourself mate, it's a joke, a very clever and accurate one at that.

Jokes can be in bad taste . . . I'll get my coat, leave you to get on with your selves!
 

The_Lhc

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CJSF said:
The_Lhc said:
CJSF said:
Chebby . . . I think you have been in the sun to long, or at the bottle of 'Bells 20 year vintage' . . . ?

Whats the matter mate . . . cant handle it when it all comes out right in the end . . . :boohoo:

CJSF

Get over yourself mate, it's a joke, a very clever and accurate one at that.

Jokes can be in bad taste

Yes they can but that one wasn't.
 

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