Amp upgrade for Tannoy Revolution Signature DC6Ts

[ConcreteFloater]

Hello all.

I have an upgrade craving driven by a desire to dust off my vinyl and get a turntable!

I have a pair of Tannoy Revolution Signature DC6Ts in my 5.1 AV setup and have decided to improve my stereo sound by adding a dedicated integrated stereo amp to the AV receiver's Pre Outs.

As there is a degree of flexibility in my budget I have decided to get the best possible amp for my speakers. Then, in a few months I'll audition for the right turntable.

I currently have on 'loan' a Rega Brio amp which is lovely but I'm wandering if I can get more from my speakers.

My current AV receiver is a Pioneer SC-LX81, It has good stereo sound but I'm sure the speakers can take better. I'm open to other suggestions but the key thing here is to get all I can out of my speakers and find the perfect pairing.

Amps that I have shortlisted for audition are:

• - Roksan Kandy K2
• - Roksan Caspian M2
• - Heed Audio Obelisk si
• - Cyrus 8XP

A couple of additional benefits an the stereo amp would be a phono stage and/or a 'unity gain' or 'AV bypass' option.

Am I right to go for the AV to integrated via pre outs option rather than adding either a pre- or power-amp to the AV receiver?

So, budget aside, I'd be grateful for your thoughts and suggestions.

Many thanks.

CF

 

[CnoEvil]

I would like to add to your suggestions:

- Musical Fidelity M3i

- Sugden Mystro or A21

- Lavardin IS (available with phono board as extra)

- Leema Pulse

- Electrocompaniet ECI-3 or PI-1

- Creek (offer here): http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hot-deals/creek-evolution-5350-amp-at-lintone-audio-nearly-half-price or the Destiny

- Harman Kardon HK 990

Some of these will push your budget, but imo paying the extra could be worth it.

 

[plastic penguin]

Hello all.

I have an upgrade craving driven by a desire to dust off my vinyl and get a turntable!

I have a pair of Tannoy Revolution Signature DC6Ts in my 5.1 AV setup and have decided to improve my stereo sound by adding a dedicated integrated stereo amp to the AV receiver's Pre Outs.

As there is a degree of flexibility in my budget I have decided to get the best possible amp for my speakers. Then, in a few months I'll audition for the right turntable.

I currently have on 'loan' a Rega Brio amp which is lovely but I'm wandering if I can get more from my speakers.

My current AV receiver is a Pioneer SC-LX81, It has good stereo sound but I'm sure the speakers can take better. I'm open to other suggestions but the key thing here is to get all I can out of my speakers and find the perfect pairing.

Amps that I have shortlisted for audition are:

• - Roksan Kandy K2
• - Roksan Caspian M2
• - Heed Audio Obelisk si
• - Cyrus 8XP

A couple of additional benefits an the stereo amp would be a phono stage and/or a 'unity gain' or 'AV bypass' option.

Am I right to go for the AV to integrated via pre outs option rather than adding either a pre- or power-amp to the AV receiver?

So, budget aside, I'd be grateful for your thoughts and suggestions.

Many thanks.

CF

Arcam A38

Naim Nait XS (you'll need a phono stage)

Marantz Pearl lite

Creek 5350 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Creek-Evolution-5350-Amplifier-NEW-/181026552635?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item2a2605fb3b

 

[ConcreteFloater]

Oh no, even more choice, but some really interesting suggestions.

After some quick research the Lavardin IS sounds incredible! I love the fact that it seems to be consistently described as musical and clean; exactly the sound I'm after. Admittedly, it is towards the top end of what I imagined would pair with the DC6Ts budget wise, however it ought to allow scope to pair with better speakers in the future! I presume you don't think that it's overkill for my Tannoys? They are great speakers for the money. I'm very intrigued to try the combination; especially with the phono stage!

Thanks both for your suggestions.

CF

 

[CnoEvil]

Oh no, even more choice, but some really interesting suggestions.

After some quick research the Lavardin IS sounds incredible! I love the fact that it seems to be consistently described as musical and clean; exactly the sound I'm after. Admittedly, it is towards the top end of what I imagined would pair with the DC6Ts budget wise, however it ought to allow scope to pair with better speakers in the future! I presume you don't think that it's overkill for my Tannoys? They are great speakers for the money. I'm very intrigued to try the combination; especially with the phono stage!

Thanks both for your suggestions.

CF

The Tannoys are very good speakers for their budget, and imo can get a touch forward in the treble when the wick is turned up....which is why I listed amps that shouldn't trigger this.....especially Sugden, Electrocompaniet and Lavardin.

I am not someone who believes that one should spend much more on speakers than amp. Your speakers are capable of more than you probably realize, and I don't think it's OTT to spend £2k on an amp. If possible, try to listen to the other 2 brands listed above (ECI-3 & A21)

I have always believed that good cheaper speakers driven really well, sound better than more expensive speakers driven moderately....but don't take my word for it, and try for yourself.

 

[drummerman]

I'd audition long and carefully to ascertain whether any of your chosen stereo amplifiers are actually an improvement

regards

 

[ConcreteFloater]

It's an interesting notion Cno; "good cheaper speakers driven really well, sound better than more expensive speakers driven moderately". I definitely curious to try a good variety against the lovely Rega that I'm listening to at the moment.

Drummerman, I'm definitely going to take my time with this one and have some thorough auditions across the range. Perhaps it's foolish of me to go to an audition with preconceptions, but I'd be surprised if a £2000 ish class A amp amp is not notably better than my Pioneer AV receiver.

Only some good auditioning will tell, and it should be fun!

The only thing to consider now is if I do end up with a class A amp do I really want it driving my front pair full-time, IE through the pre outs on the receiver? This could add to my energy bill significantly! Maybe I'd be better to only run the stereo amp when on a listening session and to somehow 'switch' to the speakers?

 

[CnoEvil]

It's an interesting notion Cno; "good cheaper speakers driven really well, sound better than more expensive speakers driven moderately". I definitely curious to try a good variety against the lovely Rega that I'm listening to at the moment.

Drummerman, I'm definitely going to take my time with this one and have some thorough auditions across the range. Perhaps it's foolish of me to go to an audition with preconceptions, but I'd be surprised if a £2000 ish class A amp amp is not notably better than my Pioneer AV receiver.

Only some good auditioning will tell, and it should be fun!

The only thing to consider now is if I do end up with a class A amp do I really want it driving my front pair full-time, IE through the pre outs on the receiver? This could add to my energy bill significantly! Maybe I'd be better to only run the stereo amp when on a listening session and to somehow 'switch' to the speakers?

I think you are approaching this in exactly the right way and asking the right questions.

IMO An AV amp has so much to do at its price point, with all that processing/7 power amps etc, that a 2 channel amp of similar value usually wipes the floor with it. Even a well sorted stereo amp costing considerably less is often better....but as always, don't take my word for this.

The most economical amps are Class D, and the best I've heard are from Bel Canto, though the new ones from Nad and Primare are also looking good.

With regard to power, there is no doubt that Class A use more, and often, some of the better sounding AB amps are highly biassed in Class A, so its worth checking the power they use.

Here was a similar discussion I had with Omnibeard (from post 4): http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/half-way-there-kind-of-so-suggestions-to-match-monopulse-as?page=2

The first thing to do is find the amp you like, and if its power hungry, you can get a Beresford switching box (as being tried by Neuphonix) which lets you run 2 sets of cables into it, so as to keep the systems seperate: http://www.beresford.me/products/TC-7220.html

 

[drummerman]

I have to admit, 'wiping the floor and being blown out of the water' (and other such visceral descriptions, not necesseraly by your good self CnoEvil ...) I have yet to experience with anything hifi

Anyways, technically speaking, there is absolutely no reason why a well designed AV amplifier cannot match a well designed stereo only amplifier, video processing notwithstanding. - One such example (there are more) is Onkyo's TX-NR906. It measures superbly, up there with the best, has lots of power, very good DAC's and other useful facilities (other than multi channel) that few, if any 2ch amplifiers have.

Not everything is created equal but to dismiss better AV products out of hand is significantly narrowing down options. I myself have done so.

regards

 

[drummerman]

Drummerman, I'm definitely going to take my time with this one and have some thorough auditions across the range. Perhaps it's foolish of me to go to an audition with preconceptions, but I'd be surprised if a £2000 ish class A amp amp is not notably better than my Pioneer AV receiver.

Preconceived ideas will probably be enough to significantly colour and influence judgement.

regards

 

[ConcreteFloater]

Drummerman, I'm definitely going to take my time with this one and have some thorough auditions across the range. Perhaps it's foolish of me to go to an audition with preconceptions, but I'd be surprised if a £2000 ish class A amp amp is not notably better than my Pioneer AV receiver.

Preconceived ideas will probably be enough to significantly colour and influence judgement.

regards

I utterly agree, and I'm very aware of the problem! However it is hard not to have preconceptions when prospecting... Our lives would be a lot easier if HiFi shops should take the same approach as fancy restaurants with their 'ladies'' menu; no prices on display, just choose what's to your taste and enjoy! :rofl:

 

[drummerman]

Have fun pet. Looking forward to your impressions

regards

 

[ConcreteFloater]

Anyways, technically speaking, there is absolutely no reason why a well designed AV amplifier cannot match a well designed stereo only amplifier, video processing notwithstanding. - One such example (there are more) is Onkyo's TX-NR906. It measures superbly, up there with the best.

I agree that " there is absolutely no reason why a well designed AV amplifier cannot match a well designed stereo only amplifier" however, are you really suggesting that my current £1500 AV amp will compare to a >£2000 Class A stereo amp?! My Pioneer is great with music, but I know I can get better... I have heard better. I'm trying to discover the route that will give me the best 'bang fo my buck'. My current thought process being something along the lines of:

1) Match an amp to my current speakers to get the best possible sound to my ears that I'm happy with. This may mean anything from £500 to £2000 or more if the pairing justifies it... It may also mean keeping my AV amp for music!

2) Find a turntable that will work with the amp and speaker pairing. £500-1000 at a guess.

3) Find a streamer to stream from my NAS. Currently have a Squeezebox, will definitely audition Linn DSs etc.

Not everything is created equal but to dismiss better AV products out of hand is significantly narrowing down options. I myself have done so.

Are you suggesting that same degree of audio refinement and pleasure could be had without upgrading my amp at all? Or are you suggesting that I upgrade my AV amp to another AV amp for about the same budget?

 

[CnoEvil]

I have to admit, 'wiping the floor and being blown out of the water' (and other such visceral descriptions, not necesseraly by your good self CnoEvil ...) I have yet to experience with anything hifi

Anyways, technically speaking, there is absolutely no reason why a well designed AV amplifier cannot match a well designed stereo only amplifier, video processing notwithstanding. - One such example (there are more) is Onkyo's TX-NR906. It measures superbly, up there with the best, has lots of power, very good DAC's and other useful facilities (other than multi channel) that few, if any 2ch amplifiers have.

Not everything is created equal but to dismiss better AV products out of hand is significantly narrowing down options. I myself have done so.

regards

I certainly do not mind having my opinion reasonably challenged, and for me, there has always been a substantial difference between the £2k stereo amps and £2k HT receivers.

The OP has a £500 Rega Brio on loan, which is good enough for him to pose the question in the first place, and may well be at least as good, if not better than the Pioneer he currently uses for music...but he can comment on that.

If you look at my posts in this thread I have:

- Prefaced my comments with IMO, to make it clear this is subjective and not fact

- Qualified all my suggestions with a strong recommendation to go for a demo by saying "don't take my word for it and try for yourself.

- Given a choice of amps from £810 to just over £2k....and it was the OP who was wondering about the Lavardin, which brings other £2k amps into the fray.

As it happens I do not rule out that an AV amp can give a good 2 channel performance, as I preferred my AVR600 to MF M6i, Moon i7 and Coda CSi....but it is expensive (has had its problems) and as yet (for my taste) haven't heard another brand that equals it for music.....and I always make it clear that it is subjective.

It is unlikely that my advice alone will lead to a reckless spending spree, because there is nearly always someone who plays devil's advocate and advises caution. I also think that, provided people genuinely go and demo, they are capable of hearing the differences themselves, without being pre-programmed by me.

Sorry for the rant, but wanted to justify my position a little more

Cno

 

[drummerman]

Ah, no problem. My comment wasn't specifically directed at you even if it looks that way. I just climbed on my little soap box, enjoyed the view, remembered that I wear heels and carefully clambered back down again ...

regards

 

[CnoEvil]

Ah, no problem. My comment wasn't specifically directed at you even if it looks that way. I just climbed on my little soap box, enjoyed the view, remembered that I wear heels and carefully clambered back down again ...

regards

Your good looks and irresistible charm let you get away with murder!

 

[Ben K.]

Just my opinion but my arcam a75 (450new) is superior with 2 channel music than my Yamaha rxv2065 (1000new).

I have not compared other av amps but i am told Yamaha is one of the better ones for 2 channel.

At the end of the day though if you can't hear a difference then it makes sense to buy an av amp only and save money or spend more on an av amp.

 

[ConcreteFloater]

Have fun pet. Looking forward to your impressions

regards

Actually, it really is the fun that I'm looking for! Research, auditioning, comparing, reconsidering and looking for 'the one' is a lot of fun.

I bought my current setup for both AV and music. It certainly does the job I hoped for with 5.1, it's fantastic. However, after a couple of years, I feel that it is a little 'harsh' or 'clinical' to really loose myself in music. I have been loaned a Rega. To my ears it's a little warmer and more musical, more suitable to my taste and therefore 'better'. I realise that these things are completely subjective but it did start me wondering what I could get out of my speakers that I haven’t heard over these last two years. Hence my initial post.

As a result I am finding both of your opinions very interesting. drummerman, I'm not dismissing your opinion. I actually find it very interesting. As a result I'm considering seeing what my £2000 ish stereo amp budget plus what I could sell my SC-LX81 for would buy me as a replacement receiver. As a result of Cno's thoughts I'm intrigued to test-drive class A amps of a higher budget than I originally assumed would be sensible for my speakers.

I have moved from planning to audition a group of similarly priced, well received amps, to seriously comparing the difference between my current AV amp, a £3000 ish AV amp, a £500 Rega amp and a £2000+ class A amp...

That will be fun! I am utterly intrigued to hear them all and to see which way I'm swayed.

There is no way I'm going to part with thousands unless I can genuinely perceive the benefits.

On a side note: The placebo effect is proven in medicine yet it's value is highly regarded, I'm sure there is a degree of 'placebo effect' as far as HiFi is concerned: The more it costs, the better it has to be, oh, it does sound better! However, if like in medicine the benefits are there, surely that's not something to be dismissive of. If spending tens of thousands on HiFi makes the listener 'hear' the most beautiful reproduction of their favourite music because of placebo, why not?!

Our preconceptions can also sway us in the opposite direction. Some believing that any HiFi is a waste of time and money and is no different to a budget stereo. In both scenarios prior experiences have dictated the individuals persuasion and it would be very hard to change that. We're odd things us Humans!

 

[CnoEvil]

The demo process should be fun and I suspect the result will not necessarily be a forgone conclusion.....My AVR600 saw off some amps that took me by surprise (some were actually more expensive).

Let us know how you get on, as it should be a fascinating experience.

Given your brief has changed, Pathos (Classic one / Logos / Ethos)....should probably be on your list.....it's a hybrid amp: http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/Pathos

 

[ConcreteFloater]

The demo process should be fun and I suspect the result will not necessarily be a forgone conclusion.....

I imagine it won't be! :O

Let us know how you get on, as it should be a fascinating experience.

I imagine it will be!

Pathos (Classic one / Logos / Ethos)....should probably be on your list.....it's a hybrid amp: http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/Pathos

Oooooooooooooh!!! 8)

Thank you all for your thoughts...

Time to audition more confused than ever! :rofl:

 

[CnoEvil]

Time to audition more confused than ever! :rofl:

Acalex and Roby have been exactly where you are atm.

If you have the fortitude (and haven't already seen them), you might get valuable insight from these two mammoth threads:

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/new-amplifier-my-long-journey

and

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/musical-fidelity-m6i-or-naim-nait-xs-to-drive-my-bw-683

 

[ConcreteFloater]

Now there's some hearty bedtime reading!

Thanks again.

CF

 

[Singslinger]

[/quote]

The Tannoys are very good speakers for their budget, and imo can get a touch forward in the treble when the wick is turned up....which is why I listed amps that shouldn't trigger this.....especially Sugden, Electrocompaniet and Lavardin.

I am not someone who believes that one should spend much more on speakers than amp. Your speakers are capable of more than you probably realize, and I don't think it's OTT to spend £2k on an amp. If possible, try to listen to the other 2 brands listed above (ECI-3 & A21)

I have always believed that good cheaper speakers driven really well, sound better than more expensive speakers driven moderately....but don't take my word for it, and try for yourself.

[/quote]

I fully endorse CnoEvil's view. In fact, I was only recently amazed at how good the modestly-priced ProAc Studio 100 driven by the relatively expensive Karan integrated sounded. To be honest, I thought I was listening to a more expensive Naim prepower setup...

 

[Anonymous]

I have the DC6T signatures and a Creek 5350 Evo amp. it's a good combination, detailed and 'warm' with well controlled bass. Worth a listen.

 

[CnoEvil]

I have the DC6T signatures and a Creek 5350 Evo amp. it's a good combination, detailed and 'warm' with well controlled bass. Worth a listen.

Yup...and it was one of the amps on my list and going for nearly half price (£679) as found by DIB.