Amp Features

[Thropplenoggin]

Hello all,

I'm still mulling over amps but have a few questions regarding features:

1. Speaker A/B selection: what function does this serve? Is this an A/V feature or for people who switch between different pairs of speakers for listening purposes?

2. In-built DACs. Can these ever be as good as standalone DAC units? Should an amp just stick to being an amp? (Thinking of CA 651a/Rotel 11 here)

3. If I'm interested in running my TV/DVD player through my amp, what should I look out for? I'm not after 5.1 surround sound but would like to use by new floorstanders rather than a soundbar/soundbase to improve the audio.

4. Any other useful features I should be looking out for, like 'Source Direct' buttons, etc.?

Some of the high-end amps seem quite 'basic' but this score highly among reviewers and users here because they concentrate on doing one thing well. An amp with Bluetooth would concern me regarding interference with signals, tho' this may just be an irrational fear on my part!

Thanks again.

Throppers

 

[Al ears]

1/ Can you used for different speaker pairing comparison but more often used to run a second pair in a different room. (Completely uneccessary in post situations)

2/ Built in DACs only really useful if you want to reduce the box count and/or overall outlay.

3/ Should be able to take the audio out signal direct from TV to an input on the amp (Aux or the like)

4/ Source direct is only found on AV amps / DVD or BluRay players, not stereo amps. (You can ignore this function)

My advise is alway Keep Things Simple but as you have noted a lot of manufacturers are now trying to cram as much as they can into an amp with some disregard to overall sound quality. Some are good at this, some are terrible.

 

[slice]

If the tv is an old one it will have rca oututs and you can run rca leads direct to the amplifier rca inputs. However modern tvs typically only have optical(and sometimes coaxial) outputs. Therefore if the amp you are buying doesn't have digital inputs you will have to buy an external dac to use the tv with the amp. If the dac is soley for the tv (& things connected to it by hdmi leads eg blu ray player), then you can buy a cheap dac for c £40 at Amazon/ Richer Sounds etc. If you want to input digital devices not related to the tv as well, you would need a stand alone dac which vary in price from c £200 up. Having an extra box to adjust all the time to change input was a bit annoying when I used a standalone dac, which is why the next amp I eventually buy will have an inbuilt dac. Some good CD players have digital inputs to their dac as well, but this does mean the CD player would be turned on as well as the source and amplifier.

 

[slice]

Despite what the previous post says, source direct is available on most stereo amplifiers. Most reviews suggest the sound is better when using the source direct button, though their has been a recent thread on this forum which disputes this.

 

[Al ears]

Source direct is not found on many stereo amps, it is usually restricted to Japanese devices that want to give you the opportunity to defeat a load of circuits that are surplus to requirements anyway (in most cases).

This function on an AV amp will cut out and video processing going on that may be detrimental to pure analogue sound.

Most 'decent' analogue stereo amps will not have Source Direct because it is completely uneccessary.

 

[hoopsontoast]

Source direct is not found on many stereo amps, it is usually restricted to Japanese devices that want to give you the opportunity to defeat a load of circuits that are surplus to requirements anyway (in most cases).

This function on an AV amp will cut out and video processing going on that may be detrimental to pure analogue sound.

Most 'decent' analogue stereo amps will not have Source Direct because it is completely uneccessary.

A lot of the Japanese Amps like the Denon PMA models have Source Direct FYI, my old PMA-2000AE did that bypassed the tone controls.

 

[AmigaNut]

My Yam AS-500 has pure direct and cuts out a load of circuitry, is that not the same tihing in theory?

There is noticeable difference when used.

AmigaNut

 

[slice]

Hello Al.

I guess what you are saying is that in many high level hifi amps there are no treble or bass adjustment cotrols, etc, so there is nothing to bypass. If, however, the OP buys an amp which does have bass/treble adjustments then it is likely to have a source direct button. I plead guilty to having a cheap Japanese(Chinese?) amp (Marantz Pm6002) which does have a source direct button, Denon, Pioneer and Onkyo amps all have source direct buttons and there are others I would imagine. I guess it depends on the OP's budget and whether he wants these features.

 

[Al ears]

Hello Al.

I guess what you are saying is that in many high level hifi amps there are no treble or bass adjustment cotrols, etc, so there is nothing to bypass. If, however, the OP buys an amp which does have bass/treble adjustments then it is likely to have a source direct button. I plead guilty to having a cheap Japanese(Chinese?) amp (Marantz Pm6002) which does have a source direct button, Denon, Pioneer and Onkyo amps all have source direct buttons and there are others I would imagine. I guess it depends on the OP's budget and whether he wants these features.

Precisely. The fact that certain manufacturers insist on adding 'tone controls' etc harks back to the seventies when you just had to have an amp with more buttons than the other guy. Nowadays I'd hazzard to suggest that if you require tone controls then you have got the wrong amp in the first place...

... I'll get my coat!

 

[the record spot]

Some amps allowed you to run two pairs of speakers, e.g. in different rooms, hence you have the option to run one or the other or both. Not restricted to AV amps.

Onboard DACs are excellent in my experience and as good as or better than the standalone ones I've used. My current amp is a terrific bit of kit and delivers excellent performance across the board.

Pure or source direct is a useful feature but is wholly optional. Hooking up your speakers to your TV can be straightforward but depends on what amp you have and if you're TV has the right connectivity (and vice versa).

 

[matthewpiano]

The best sounding amps I've had, by far, (my current Exposure 1010 and the Creek 4330R) have both been extremely simple affairs with only power, input selection, and volume controls. I have not felt the need for tone controls with either of them because they are just so well balanced. After all the equipment I've had I would never go back to a big, multi-featured battleship again and, in fact, Exposure and Creek are about the only two brands I would consider under £1,000 - possibly add Croft to that list, but I'd have to hear it first. The only more mainstream manufacturer I would have again is Rotel.

I would always rather my fairly limited budget be spent on the things that really affect sound quality and an amp's ability to drive and control the speakers of my choice. For me, that includes the best possible volume control (as channel balance at low levels can be dreadful on many amps) and a properly specified power supply that provides strong and stable current.

 

[Thropplenoggin]

Thanks for the responses so far.

I'm currently torn between budget entry level amp/cd player and floorstanders and a higher-end amp with budget cd player/floorstanders.

I'm due to demo Marantz PM6005/CD6005 and CA Azur 651a/c with CA Aero 6 and Q Acoustic 2050i speakers next week. However, I may ask them to add the Arcam A19 into the mix to see what it gives.

The Creek 50A seems to be much-loved round these parts, and that may have to remain an aspirational amp for now. No bad thing as I wonder if I'd hear the benefit of these mid-range amps at present (though I can hear that my Denon M37 isn't getting the best out of my Dali Zensor 1s!)

My budget is really a grand, inc. cables, interconnects. The budget gear listed above scrapes in at under a grand (£899) leaving me room to buy the cables/interconnects. A better amp may prove a better long-term investment, tho, but I'd have to add a DAC to use with my flatscreen TV (a Samsung with HDMI inputs/outputs. A DacMagic 100 would fit the bill and is only £150

Decisions, decisions...

 

[slice]

Thanks for the responses so far.

I'm currently torn between budget entry level amp/cd player and floorstanders and a higher-end amp with budget cd player/floorstanders.

I'm due to demo Marantz PM6005/CD6005 and CA Azur 651a/c with CA Aero 6 and Q Acoustic 2050i speakers next week. However, I may ask them to add the Arcam A19 into the mix to see what it gives.

The Creek 50A seems to be much-loved round these parts, and that may have to remain an aspirational amp for now. No bad thing as I wonder if I'd hear the benefit of these mid-range amps at present (though I can hear that my Denon M37 isn't getting the best out of my Dali Zensor 1s!)

My budget is really a grand, inc. cables, interconnects. The budget gear listed above scrapes in at under a grand (£899) leaving me room to buy the cables/interconnects. A better amp may prove a better long-term investment, tho, but I'd have to add a DAC to use with my flatscreen TV (a Samsung with HDMI inputs/outputs. A DacMagic 100 would fit the bill and is only £150

Decisions, decisions...

As I said in an earlier post, if the ONLY reason you need a DAC is to link your TV, you don't need to spend £150 on a DAC. I currenly use a CYP dac for this purpose which costs £40.

 

[Thropplenoggin]

Thanks, Slice.

I might be tempted to use other sources, though, if the DAC gave me the option: streaming Qobuz or Radio 3 through my laptop, for instance, or the Freebox.

 

[Broner]

Nowadays I'd hazzard to suggest that if you require tone controls then you have got the wrong amp in the first place...

I used to turn the bass down quite a bit because the speakers were (necessarily) close to the wall.

 

[chebby]

Precisely. The fact that certain manufacturers insist on adding 'tone controls' etc harks back to the seventies when you just had to have an amp with more buttons than the other guy. Nowadays I'd hazzard to suggest that if you require tone controls then you have got the wrong amp in the first place...

... I'll get my coat!

So how did that logic apply to amps from brands like Audiolab, Quad, A&R Cambridge, Creek, Sugden, Armstrong, Leak and many others who all sported tone controls at the time? (And still do in some instances.)

Are the Creek Evolution 50a's bass and treble controls an admission that it's somehow 'wrong'? How about the switchable loudness curve on the Naim UnitiQute?

They were/are hardly the sort of brands who'd get caught up in a 'race for more buttons'.

I guess it's better to buy new amps or speakers every time you think a recording might benefit from a little extra (or a little less) bass or treble, or you just want to 'lift' the frequency extremes a bit when listening at very low volume late at night.

 

[Freddy58]

Personally, I like the flexibility that tone controls give. I never quite understood this purist idea that "if it's any good, there's no need for tone controls" There are (to me) too many variables that don't allow a consistent listening experience. There's also my own personal preference of how I want it to sound (I like a bit of bass ). But, that's just my uneducated opinion

 

[Al ears]

I do not dispute that tone cotrols have their place in some set-ups, a bit like moving a graphic equiliser into a single box, but personally would not go out pay extra for something I would not envisage ever using.

Each to their own.