Accuphase E-360 or E-260

[hifidivided]

Hello,

I've been on the hunt for a new amplifier to power a pair of Dynaudio Focus 260 floor standing speakers that I currently have (and enjoy A LOT!). I went to look at a few and for the first time encountered Accuphase. It was hard for me to ignore how much I liked it. Had opportunity to take home a E260 to try and it sounded really great. When returning the 260 I listened and compared to the E360. There was some difference for sure. Audiable but not make or break difference.

I am torn between the two. At 5000 euro I know I am getting a great amp with the E260 regardless. The E360 is 1500 euro more expensive and it would be a hard push financially. I can't see if I will later regret not getting the slightly bigger amp (give more options later in life.. ?). I am not climbing the hifi ladder, I hope!, and I assume that this will be a final investment for at least 15 to 20 years.

There does not seem to be a lot of information or comparisons on the two online. People generally seem to agree they are great amps, though overpriced. I agree. I also listened to a Bladelius Thor that I liked... but not as much as the Accuphase.

Thoughts on the E360 vs E260? Should I just ignore the internal greed and settle for the E260 "knowing" that its a great amp regardless??

Rest of chain is Dynavector 10x5 > Rega P3/24 > Lehmann Black Cube > ? >Dynaudio Focus 260.

I appreciate any input or opinions shared!

Thanks!

 

[Macspur]

Hello,

I've been on the hunt for a new amplifier to power a pair of Dynaudio Focus 260 floor standing speakers that I currently have (and enjoy A LOT!). I went to look at a few and for the first time encountered Accuphase. It was hard for me to ignore how much I liked it. Had opportunity to take home a E260 to try and it sounded really great. When returning the 260 I listened and compared to the E360. There was some difference for sure. Audiable but not make or break difference.

I am torn between the two. At 5000 euro I know I am getting a great amp with the E260 regardless. The E360 is 1500 euro more expensive and it would be a hard push financially. I can't see if I will later regret not getting the slightly bigger amp (give more options later in life.. ?). I am not climbing the hifi ladder, I hope!, and I assume that this will be a final investment for at least 15 to 20 years.

There does not seem to be a lot of information or comparisons on the two online. People generally seem to agree they are great amps, though overpriced. I agree. I also listened to a Bladelius Thor that I liked... but not as much as the Accuphase.

Thoughts on the E360 vs E260? Should I just ignore the internal greed and settle for the E260 "knowing" that its a great amp regardless??

Rest of chain is Dynavector 10x5 > Rega P3/24 > Lehmann Black Cube > ? >Dynaudio Focus 260.

I appreciate any input or opinions shared!

Thanks!

Hi and welcome,

If you can afford it, go for the E360... will give you more scope, if at any time in future you want to change the speakers.

They are fantastic amps and I'm sure you would be happy with either model.

Mac

 

[CnoEvil]

If you like Accuphase, you should also check out Luxman and Musical Fidelity AMS 35i......they are all brilliant.

If you can't hear €1500 worth of difference, go with the cheaper amp, as long as it drives your speakers properly.

Mac and Matt may give further insight.

 

[DocG]

I agree with Cno: at this budget, it might be worth broadening your horizon.

And indeed, if the difference between the two amps is marginal to your ears, then €1500 is a heap of money. Not sure if future proofing would be worth that. I assume there's lots and lots of speakers that can be properly driven by the E-260...

Would you consider going second hand for an amp higher up the Accu ladder? Mac seems to like his E-350 to bits...

 

[matthewpiano]

I'd say whichever Accuphase you go for, there probably won't be much reason to ever change amp again!

I agree with the suggestion to try Luxmann as well. Wonderful amplifiers.

 

[hifidivided]

Thanks for the replies so far!

Part of the charm of an accuphase is that you buy, get a great item and not much will make you feel like spending loads of cash unless it really competes. In the 5000 euro price range... whay Luxman should I consider?

Also worth noting that we don't have TV or radio.. so the amp will only use one record player and thats it. It will never be considred for HT or digital to analog stuff. Its old fashioned here... record player into preamp into amplifier into speakers. Thanks!

 

[hifidivided]

DocG > I am not very technically minded and buying a new product gives me a few years warrnty. In my limited exposure to hifi I found that if things are gonna go wrong they tend to do so in the first few years of heavy use. I might be narrow minded but so far that seems to be the story. I'd rather buy new and have some years of parts faulting guarantee.

 

[Macspur]

All other makes mentioned are excellent amps, but certainly MF AMS35I being Class A has a different SQ

and one you might prefer, but for me, the Accuphase would be better value with a great headphone stage, tone controls and it doesn't run hot.

I think Luxman at similar price point 550 590 are Class A do have tone controls and headphone stage, but again, run very hot... if that's not a problem for you, go ahead and try them

The other downside to Class A, you have to watch the electricity bill!

Having previously owned a Sugden Masterclass IA-4 Class A amp, I am speaking from experience.

If you can find a second hand or ex demo Accuphase I'm sure you would be extremely happy, particularly saving a chunk of wonga

Keep us posted how you get on.

Mac

 

[CnoEvil]

Part of the charm of an accuphase is that you buy, get a great item and not much will make you feel like spending loads of cash unless it really competes. In the 5000 euro price range... whay Luxman should I consider?

Luxman

L505u (100W ) £3295

L550A 11 (20W Class A) £3595

L507u (110W) £4795

L590 11 (£30W Class A) £6495

The Sugden Masterclass IA-4 is also worth sniffing out (£4135)

 

[matt49]

Hello Hifidivided,

Welcome to the fun.

I'm sure either of the Accuphase amps will give you a huge amount of pleasure for many years to come: a very sound investment (excuse the pun). Ultimately the choice comes down to how much grunt you're going to need. Is your room large? Do you play loud? I don't know the Dynaudio 260s, but the specs suggest they shouldn't be too hard to drive. So on paper the Accuphase E-260 may well be all you need. And the money you save against the E-360 might go towards a future upgrade of your source.

As far as alternatives are concerned, I'd recommend a demo of the Devialet 110 (EUR4990) or 170 (EUR6990). (I've ordered the Dev 170.) The sonic character of the Devialets is quite similar to the Accuphases and the amps suggested by Cno, but in my opinion the Devialets are just a bit more transparent and have more real-world power. But that's just my opinion.

A tough decision, but you are on a very rewarding path!

:cheers:

Matt

 

[DocG]

As far as alternatives are concerned, I'd recommend a demo of the Devialet 110 (EUR4990) or 170 (EUR6990). (I've ordered the Dev 170.) The sonic character of the Devialets is quite similar to the Accuphases and the amps suggested by Cno, but in my opinion the Devialets are just a bit more transparent and have more real-world power. But that's just my opinion.

The Devialets are gorgeous! Not sure they are first choice for a turntable-only system, though, with the analogue - digital - analogue conversion it does. And there's a lot in the amp, the OP won't need. If he is willing to give it a try, I wouldn't consider the 110 anyway, as it has an inferior ADC...

 

[matthewpiano]

Yeah, I have to say I would never want my turntable to go through any kind of digital stage, which would definitely put me off the Devialets if in he OP's position.

 

[drummerman]

Wasn't the question ... Accuphase E-3.. or E-2... rather than Devialet, Musical Fidelity ... ?

£1500 quid difference over 20 odd years is around £70 a year, £6 a month and a bargain £0.20 a week.

Go treat yourself and go with the big mamma.

Happy sunday my little lambs x

regards

 

[hifidivided]

My gut feeling says to rule out the class A section if it 'actually' makes a noticable difference to the electricity bills. And the heat factor does not sound like my thing either. The amp will be on and used for a few hours every single day. 95% of the time its low volume (which is why I bought those speakers) and the room is fairly small. Listening position around 2 or 2.5 meters something like that. So volume and power is not really the issue.

I'll have a look for Devialet and see if I can listen to one. Never hurts to explore the options!

But so far nobody is really objecting to the E260, which is nice! Of course if I had the extra cash the E360 would be better but maybe I can put the greed away and settle for the 260.

Thanks!

 

[drummerman]

But so far nobody is really objecting to the E260, which is nice! Of course if I had the extra cash the E360 would be better but maybe I can put the greed away and settle for the 260.

It'll nag you for the rest of your days ... and beyond.

regards

 

[CnoEvil]

Wasn't the question ... Accuphase E-3.. or E-2... rather than Devialet, Musical Fidelity ... ?

Opening new horizons, Mr. D.

So many possibilities, so little time!

 

[CnoEvil]

My gut feeling says to rule out the class A section if it 'actually' makes a noticable difference to the electricity bills. And the heat factor does not sound like my thing either.

Class A makes a noticeable difference to Heat, Electricity bills (always pulling full power from mains) and Sound Quality......only you can decide if it's worth it.

FWIW. My opinion would be as follows - given the amp is on a lot of the time and at low volume, you should steer clear of Class A. Provided you choose carefully (which you are), the compromise will be minimal......bare in mind though, the best sounding AB amps are heavily biased in A. The only way to avoid heat (and larger power usage), is to go Class D (Devialet)

 

[DocG]

I just had a look at the specs of both Accus. How did you connect your TT when you auditioned them? Did they have an optional TT option board? If not, your money might be better spent on a E-260 + AD-20 board than on a E-360... Or do the prices you quote include the option boards already? [could well be a daft remark... I know less than nothing about turntables. Just trying to think along with you...]

 

[hifidivided]

When I had the E260 at home it was on for many hours without a break and barely got warm. Seemed to be consistenly warm without much variation. And it was around 30/32 degrees that day.

WIth the E260 the turntable was connected into my preamp and that connected into one of the line in on the accuphase. I think if I had more money I would push for the E360 but that would be really tight and it would cause all kinds of other headaches to work around. I am sure Accu's on pre-board option is amazing but that would have to be for another time. The E-260 comes with one optional board slot and the E-360 with two slots.

 

[DocG]

When I had the E260 at home it was on for many hours without a break and barely got warm. Seemed to be consistenly warm without much variation. And it was around 30/32 degrees that day.

WIth the E260 the turntable was connected into my preamp and that connected into one of the line in on the accuphase. I think if I had more money I would push for the E360 but that would be really tight and it would cause all kinds of other headaches to work around. I am sure Accu's on pre-board option is amazing but that would have to be for another time. The E-260 comes with one optional board slot and the E-360 with two slots.

Could you re-demo the E-260 with the option board? You can then compare the AD-20 (€995) with your pre-amp, and consider selling on the pre. Just a thought...

 

[Macspur]

Good advice worth considering by Doc G.

The E350 doesn't run at all hot either.

Mac

 

[ID.]

One thing that came up often in the Japanese reviews of the 260 that I've read is that it is relatively lacking in bass control and bass detail compared to the higher spec. Accuphases and some of the similarly priced Luxmans, but really it came down to personal preference. Now, if you didn't get that impression from your speakers, then I wouldn't worry about it.

Luxmans, on the other hand, are known for taking a really solid grip on your bass drivers, although many reviews seem to think the 505uX has moved away from the traditionaln "Lux tone" and gone for a faster, more agile sound with less body and less satisfactory bass. I haven't auditioned the 505uX sufficiently to verify this.

Luxman

L505u (100W ) £3295

L550A 11 (20W Class A) £3595

L507u (110W) £4795

L590 11 (£30W Class A) £6495

Wow, those are some serious markups.

The 505u retailed at the equivalent of 1500 pounds. It's nice, but I wouldn't pay over 2000 pounds.

The 507u is one of my favourites, and it retailed for around 2700 pounds. Not sure how it stands up at 4795 pounds. It brings more speed, power and control and has a reputation for being a bit more energetic (rocks harder) than the 505u and 509u.

Both the 505u and 507u are no longer produced and they are now onto the 505uX and 507uX.

The on board phono stage of Luxmans is highly regarded.

 

[hifidivided]

When I had the E260 at home it was on for many hours without a break and barely got warm. Seemed to be consistenly warm without much variation. And it was around 30/32 degrees that day.

WIth the E260 the turntable was connected into my preamp and that connected into one of the line in on the accuphase. I think if I had more money I would push for the E360 but that would be really tight and it would cause all kinds of other headaches to work around. I am sure Accu's on pre-board option is amazing but that would have to be for another time. The E-260 comes with one optional board slot and the E-360 with two slots.

Could you re-demo the E-260 with the option board? You can then compare the AD-20 (€995) with your pre-amp, and consider selling on the pre. Just a thought...

I hear good things about the AD20 BUT if there was any more money to invest I would be tempted to just push for the bigger amp. I don't think there is much cash 2nd hand for my current pre-amp so thats just something that will have to wait I think.

I think my next step is to listen to some Lux amps so I have some comparison.

 

[mute]

Heard the Lux 590ax, great amp!

The Lux 550 did not drive my Focals very well, the 590ax was much better.

-mute

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

Hello Hifidivided.

I speacially register under this page to talk with you. I know it's difficult to find good informations on the web and particulary for those kind of question, it need answer from persons that tried out those things.

I'm making different tests since the middle of fall 2012, and I compared the Accuphase e-260 with the e-360 and against other opponents from other brands like luxman, mc intosh, audia, leema, atc, accustic arts, goldmund and others... The tests was made in a professionnal recording studio in my neighborhood. A near perfectly treated accoustic room. I always used the same speakers and the same CD Player, for putting out the factor that could come from the dac of the cd player. Only exception was with the Luxman L-505ux and the L-550ax that was feeded with their own luxman cd player. Mostly, the cd player was an accuphase dp400 and the speakers was a B&W804d and a Xavian XN270. All the current was filtered.

I will recommend you to be happy with the E-260. Why ? Because you will need a KILLER ROOM to hear a little-tiny-thing-so-difficult-to-identify-that-you-will-believe-it's-psycho-accustic. Really, a lot of times, I believed I was confronted to psychological differences and had hard time to point out what will be very different between both. I could, after a long period, point out that some details fly a little bit better in the room with the E-360. The dynamic was minimalisticly more fine on the E-360, but, all those "better qualities" are so difficult to point out as if you analyse the exact flying pattern of two 9mm bullets fired from a gun.

The seller gave the one good advice. It's to never put the E-260 on speakers that are needing currents less than 4 ohms. Because he don't like that.

Another bad point of the E-260 in regard of the E-360, are the little pusher plastic buttons, that are more fragile than those on the E-360, that are standard. So, If you plan to play a lot with them, you will need to beware of that because the probability of a break in ten or twenty years is existing.

Actually, in Europe, there is a serious problem of reliability of the ..60 serie of accuphase too. I'm on different forum, and, simultanously, more persons than usual started to complain about problems with their new ..60. Often, it's humming or background noise, sometimes it's bad mounted vu-meter needle, sometime it's... simple breakdown. Be aware of that if you choose to turn yourself for a used one.

I hope it could help you out.

-------------

Then, other brands was recommended to you by other forumers. But all of them, although Luxman, have their own way to make sound. This is nuances but it will really depend about your tastes.

The Luxman L-505ux, for example, was (a bit) cheaper as the Accuphase E-260, and was equipped with a built in phono pre that is not bad. But he was flatter in the dynamic. He wasn't able to allow me to listen to some details of an accustic guitar player., The curve of the guitar strings was sharply followed and retraced by the accuphase, the luxman stopped before that and give "the great part of it". The toms of a drum wasn't so deep on the l-505ux. You could really listen to the end of the recording room with the e-260. Some details, when a lot of details came together, was simplified with the l-505ux, but they was clearly defined one in the other, when the e-260 was playing. The bass was less deep with the luxman as with the accuphase. Both musical scene was large and the artists takes position on those.

But this are all details, if you like it more "laid back", this tendence to not show you the last inch of detail could clearly be your cup of tea and make the Luxman interesting for you. In the other way, if you like this "closer to reallity" feeling of the accuphase, go for it.

Bad thing about the luxman :

-The volume knob is of awful quality and is nothing like a japanese brand, renowned for that, should make. It's a tiny film of aluminium that is layered on a plastic button. The way it gives volume is bad made too, 75% of the sound volume came in the 1/2 position, so you loose the run of the other half.

- the prices of Luxman are raising so high that they doubled of price in less than 5 years.

-------

Oh yeah, and I'm a new member. Hello guy's ! Yes I'm a woman, but I warn you, I'm only here for speaking about hifi. Be clearly aware of that !