A mismatch for my Roksan mk2 tr5?

SolarGlider

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Hi everyone,

I am not fully enjoying my gear right now. I like my music to have detailed treble and midrange with decent enough bass.

My setup is: Kimber USB gold

Musical Fidelity v-dac II + psu II

Chord Crimson+

Naim Nait XS + custom powercable (Furutech)

Kimber 8TC + Furutech gold banana plugs

Roksan mkII tr5 (biwired)

MJ Acoustics Pro 50 mk2 subwoofer (with very long cable borrowed from store, high input)

I think that I already reached the limits of my dac so it could be part of the problem.

I have enough bass, but the treble seems polite and the midrange is too smooth. The sounds are there but somewhat hidden away. This varies from music to music though, the soundstage is excellent with good build-ups and with excellent accuracy and timing. I can still enjoy jazz and classical but with almost anything electronical I find the bass too present with a treble that lacks excitement and punch and a midrange that is sounding compact.

I have goosebumps every time I hear electronics on a Marantz CD 6004 / Marantz PM7004 / Cabasse Jersey MT3, a lot cheaper combo. But I want to have gear that can go all-round but mostly with electronics (trance mostly with lots of vocal, progressive, dub-step), moviesoundtracks, soul and also some jazz and classical. I know Cyrus and Roksan themselves have great amps that are group winners here but I want to have some input from more experienced people.

I am thinking (and willing) to change amps and dac because I know the Roksan's are up for the task. Or is there a possible rescueplan for the naim to get the sound that I like? (without adding a flatcap).
 

SolarGlider

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Maybe I have to specify a bit more: Would changing for the cyrus 6 or 8xp be an improvement in combination with the roksans or is the naim capable of producing more (like say with a teddy pardo psu). The review of the Roksan's was excellent here and specified they were capable of great detail in the treble with some loss in the mids. I've heard the kimber is a very neutral cable so it should be capable enough. Could someone send me in a direction?
 

Kubs

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Hi There,

I share your frustrations as I too am going through a phase of not enjoying my set up. I was thinking of upgrading to the Roksan TR5's - are they any good?

Sounds like your DAC could be the weak link - I cant recommend anything that I havent listened to although you could start off by looking at the best buy pages of WHF.

Sorry I couldnt help - I would appreciate your view on the TR5's ... ?
 
SolarGlider said:
Hi everyone,

I am not fully enjoying my gear right now. I like my music to have detailed treble and midrange with decent enough bass.

My setup is: Kimber USB gold

Musical Fidelity v-dac II + psu II

Chord Crimson+

Naim Nait XS + custom powercable (Furutech)

Kimber 8TC + Furutech gold banana plugs

Roksan mkII tr5 (biwired)

MJ Acoustics Pro 50 mk2 subwoofer (with very long cable borrowed from store, high input)

I think that I already reached the limits of my dac so it could be part of the problem.

I have enough bass, but the treble seems polite and the midrange is too smooth. The sounds are there but somewhat hidden away. This varies from music to music though, the soundstage is excellent with good build-ups and with excellent accuracy and timing. I can still enjoy jazz and classical but with almost anything electronical I find the bass too present with a treble that lacks excitement and punch and a midrange that is sounding compact.

I have goosebumps every time I hear electronics on a Marantz CD 6004 / Marantz PM7004 / Cabasse Jersey MT3, a lot cheaper combo. But I want to have gear that can go all-round but mostly with electronics (trance mostly with lots of vocal, progressive, dub-step), moviesoundtracks, soul and also some jazz and classical. I know Cyrus and Roksan themselves have great amps that are group winners here but I want to have some input from more experienced people.

I am thinking (and willing) to change amps and dac because I know the Roksan's are up for the task. Or is there a possible rescueplan for the naim to get the sound that I like? (without adding a flatcap).

If the Marantz combo gives you "goosebumps" then it is definitely an imbalance with your current bundles. I too have a mix 'n' match set-up, get it right and it'll sound wonderful. On the other hand if the components don't synergise, it can sound lopsided.

What you change to restore sonic equilibrium will depend what component you're willing to sacrifice. I've heard the Naim XS with Arcam CDP and Dynaudio Contour speakers and it sounded wonderful. Likewise I've heard the amp with Spendor and MA GS10 with equally pleasing results.

If, however, you want to retain the Roksan speakers I'd suggest listening to the Kandy K2 or Caspian M1 or M2 (the latter is neck-and-neck with the Naim XS). Whichever direction you choose to go a demo - preferably a home dem - is essential.

Hope that helps.
 

SolarGlider

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@ Kubs

I really like the Roksan's, they are very capable in my opinion. It is a tremendous performer with voices and despite of a smaller midrange it is capable of giving a lot of detail. The only thing where you have to be careful with is positioning and the bass. I am using them together with a sub because I thought the bass could improve. If you like your bass on the heavy side without a sub look elsewhere. I heard them on the Roksan K2 amp the other day and already liked the presentation better then with my naim (of course some credit has to go to the Rega Apollo for that as well). In that combination they were very enticing. But I really suggest that you try them out for yourself since I don't know what your preferences are. Enjoy listening.
 

CnoEvil

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I think you should try some different amps.....maybe from Roksan, Electrocompaniet, Musical Fidelity and Bel Canto. If this doesn't help, try some different speakers.
 

SolarGlider

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Thanks Plastic Penguin for the reply. I really would like to keep the speakers because I like the treble (not on my amp for the moment) and the level of detail. I will be changing dac's as well but after talking to more experienced people then myself they said to me to look at the amp and loudspeakers first. But honoustly now I am thinking to give the Naim another shot with a teddy pardo. Have been doing a lot of reading and it seems the Naim XS does it's best when there is an external PSU. I get a 14 day no questions asked return policy and I think it won't be a bad idea to at least try it out. I don't know if the improvement will be as big as they say but we'll see. If anyone here has experience with that combination please let me know. Maybe if I win the spendors that Whathifi is giving away will be the solution ;)
 

SolarGlider

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Yes, I was thinking the same first. Go with different amps like all the good brands you mentioned. But people really seem to like the improvement of the teddy on naim. If the sound is not what I'm looking for I will gladly follow your and penguin's advice to change components. I got the naim at a bargain price so that's why I have Roksan on Naim. I did listen to it first and liked it (ofcourse) but after months of hearing I finally know what colouration and detail I like. Too bad I didn't hear this before
 
SolarGlider said:
Thanks Plastic Penguin for the reply. I really would like to keep the speakers because I like the treble (not on my amp for the moment) and the level of detail. I will be changing dac's as well but after talking to more experienced people then myself they said to me to look at the amp and loudspeakers first. But honoustly now I am thinking to give the Naim another shot with a teddy pardo. Have been doing a lot of reading and it seems the Naim XS does it's best when there is an external PSU. I get a 14 day no questions asked return policy and I think it won't be a bad idea to at least try it out. I don't know if the improvement will be as big as they say but we'll see. If anyone here has experience with that combination please let me know. Maybe if I win the spendors that Whathifi is giving away will be the solution ;)

Although not a big Naim fan, the XS is very capable. The natural partners to Naim is PMC (heard DB1is with Nait 5i), Neat and also look at Totem. Heard a lot of good things about the combo.
 

SolarGlider

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I still have the original Naim speaker cable but I didn't like the presentation enough and switched to Kimber which is said to be more neutral. They are installed with banana plugs (4 Furutech's at the end). I am disconnecting them now to try it out.
 

CnoEvil

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SolarGlider said:
Yes, I was thinking the same first. Go with different amps like all the good brands you mentioned. But people really seem to like the improvement of the teddy on naim. If the sound is not what I'm looking for I will gladly follow your and penguin's advice to change components. I got the naim at a bargain price so that's why I have Roksan on Naim. I did listen to it first and liked it (ofcourse) but after months of hearing I finally know what colouration and detail I like. Too bad I didn't hear this before

I don't get on with the Naim sound, and I would be surprised if the power supply fundamentally changes it, though it may improve matters.

I hope you soon find the answer and start getting full enjoyment out of your music.
 

SolarGlider

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I should tinker more it seems. Despite having less cable for transmission my midrange is sounding better. Karmacoma is a test song of mine that I really know and I can hear immediate improvement in the midrange.Strange, I thought bi-wiring was to get more detail, not less. Will test more songs with voices later on but at first glance I really don't notice this much difference. Thanks for a great tip
 

SolarGlider

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It seems there is room for improvement, so I will bundle the cable back (which improved something already) as one and try the teddy (can't hurt to try, right).

I am really happy with the help I got, thanks everyone
 

CnoEvil

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SolarGlider said:
@ Cnoevil. There seem to be large love and hate support groups out there for naim. I think (carefully) that it is a personal taste.

That is absolutely correct. Taste is by its nature, subjective and the secret to success is understanding your own, and then knowing which brands will get you there.....Sounds simple, but it usually isn't, until you've heard a lot of what's available.

One thing's for sure, nobody can tell you what to do with any certainty, only make suggestions.
 
CnoEvil said:
SolarGlider said:
@ Cnoevil. There seem to be large love and hate support groups out there for naim. I think (carefully) that it is a personal taste.

That is absolutely correct. Taste is by its nature, subjective and the secret to success is understanding your own, and then knowing which brands will get you there.....Sounds simple, but it usually isn't, until you've heard a lot of what's available.

One thing's for sure, nobody can tell you what to do with any certainty, only make suggestions.

That's the case with ALL hi-fi. One person's steak is anothers offal, hence why most advise a demonstration.
 

SolarGlider

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I appreciate the input, it seems you guys have sailed these waters before :grin:

I am still working on that cable now. I had some leftover cable and used it instead of the goldplated connection thingy (don't know the word) :) to connect the pos. and neg. (thank you shooter69 for suggesting the cable)

The results are better, back bi-wired again and the treble and mids are better defined. (more detail a s well)

When I have the teddy combined with new dac I will definitely tell how it went.

But you can rest assured that if it doesn't work out the Roksan amps and others will be back on the list, I have a friend who is keen on my Naim for his Focal816's (and can still get profit). I'm choosing music, not brands and if the Naim finally doesn't deliver the way I want to then soon his Focal's will sound better then with the Marantz receiver he now uses. >)
 

CnoEvil

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SolarGlider said:
But you can rest assured that if it doesn't work out the Roksan amps and others will be back on the list, I have a friend who is keen on my Naim for his Focal816's (and can still get profit). I'm choosing music, not brands and if the Naim finally doesn't deliver the way I want to then soon his Focal's will sound better then with the Marantz receiver he now uses. >)

I'm not so sure. IMO. Naim + Focal are not natural bedfellows. :O
 

SolarGlider

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Well, I really enjoyed listening to it for many hours when we tackled every genre. When I got the Naim I wanted to prove him his Marantz was inadequate. I installed everything together with my dac at his place for one day and I was really surprised at how good it sounded. Maybe I have bad hearing? :?
 

CnoEvil

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SolarGlider said:
Well, I really enjoyed listening to it for many hours when we tackled every genre. When I got the Naim I wanted to prove him his Marantz was inadequate. I installed everything together with my dac at his place for one day and I was really surprised at how good it sounded. Maybe I have bad hearing? :?

No, you just prefer a different presentation to me, which is as it should be. It would be very dull if everyone liked the same thing. If you enjoy it, then it is the right choice.
 

SteveR750

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The M2 should in theory work very well with the TR5s, but the XS is no slouch. A touch more excitable than the M2, but the latter is hardly a shy retiring wallflower. I've never heard the TR5s so can't really comment much more than that.
 

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